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Author Topic: version 21 and a few points to consider before you upgrade.  (Read 2084 times)

stevebri

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version 21 and a few points to consider before you upgrade.
« on: January 08, 2021, 08:20:01 am »

Hi all and happy New Year.

Just wanted to share with you my experience with trying to upgrade to version 21.....  its not good.
I'm not here to knock the software, its new features etc... that's been covered by others. I'm not a fan boy of other software here to bash C1.

I loved the improvements for version 20 and upgraded quite quickly.

So...  I tried to upgrade to v.21 because a client wanted me to use the same new profiles that are found in V.21 but not in v.20 so I thought 'ok... its been a few weeks, the update should work smoothly...'  how wrong I was.

I logged on to C1, hit upgrade the perpetual license for £159.00 did that and decided to go via Paypal as usual.

A box came up signalling I had made my purchase, however it was made via a company called 'Fastspring' apparently they act for a lot of companies as the 'middleman' to administer the sale of software.

I never received the email with my receipt OR my new serial key.
I downloaded v.21 typed in my v.20 serial and it was revoked, obviously this only works with v.20
I was not allowed to run v.21 as a free trial until new serial arrived.

Here is the REAL problem, you complain to Fastspring via an online form, no phone numbers or email, they say they 'cannot issue a refund' and you have to speak to C1....
C1 has no phones at all...ever... just a user forum and as we all know, they are not manned very much, if at all by admin, they are sporadically manned by C1 tech people on their coffee break.

So here I am, I cannot work with my client, have no serial number and have had no response from Fastspring... to resend the serial to TWO emails.
I log on to C1, my profile has no record of my new purchase at all...
To request my serial, or a refund, I have to raise a support case.

I think we as users who rely on software should be aware of the way forward, the way this is all going and how we, as customers are not really considered at all.
Any company of the size of Phase One or Adobe for that matter, who doesn't provide a proper support system with direct emails and phone numbers doesn't care about its customer base. Its not a criticism, its a fact.  Phase has now shown us that yes, they will keep the perpetual license option open to all, but the suits have made it more expensive than the subscription model, that will be a given going forward, You buy it, then pay £199 a year on top of that for what were free upgrades.

There was a time when Capture One was super reliable, rock steady tethering and stable interface.  I just had a peek around the forum and wow... so many people (Mac & PC) have so many issues.

I just think as photographers we need to protect our businesses and have one eye on not upgrading, not buying into stuff we never needed before. Personally I have two versions of C1 (12 and 20) running plus the last stand alone LR (version 6.01 I think).

This experience for me is an eye opener, as a rule I never upgrade software, firmware or buy new cameras until they have been in the market a while, normally with little to no hitches...  but the fact that after paying my £159 I cannot work within the same colour space as my client (who is tenacious hence this silly request) is a big let down from Capture One..

Feel free to add any hiccups you've had when giving them your money...

Steve
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Malcolm Payne

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Re: version 21 and a few points to consider before you upgrade.
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2021, 12:49:57 pm »

Hi Steve,

I don't know if this will help, but if you have installed v21 on your machine in a separate location, even if you are unable to start it without the updated serial number, you should be able to find the new profiles you need in the appropriate v21 folder and copy them into the v20 equivalent location and then use them in that version. That is certainly the case with the new v21 ProStandard profiles.

I won't go on at length about the customer service here, suffice it to say that it has been a shadow of its former self for some long while; amongst other things, I am still chasing a small but irritating and almost certainly easily resolved bug that has been present since v10.1 and that they have acknowledged and said tech. support are aware. I raised it again twice in the v21 beta, but it still appears to be studiously ignored. Between their lack of effective customer support and the latest swingeing price increases, coupled with little obvious improvement thus far in overall functionality of v21, C1 are well on the way to losing a lot of previously satisfied customers if they are not very careful.

Good luck with your profile and other issues.

Malcolm

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budjames

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Re: version 21 and a few points to consider before you upgrade.
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2021, 04:20:07 pm »

I've been running Capture One Pro 21 since the first public beta on my iMac and iMacPro. I like the new features. The final release is stable and quicker to import images and scroll though them. I use referenced folder set up on a very fast OWC ThunderBlade external drive.

All good with the new version.

Regards,
Bud James

Please check out my fine art and travel photography at www.budjames.photography or on Instagram at www.instagram.com/budjamesphoto
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Bud James
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stevebri

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Re: version 21 and a few points to consider before you upgrade.
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2021, 07:17:47 am »

Thanks Malcolm, its a sad time really, that's why I think we need the belt AND braces approach, Adobe don't give two hoots and as a business model that works for them. The suits at C1 know that they can skim off the service, pump up the prices, come out with bogus new features that are not worth a full price upgrade and people will put up with it.

They want the Sony/mirrorless/Youtube market, hence the speed edit... but they will fail because those guys won't and don't put up with the complicated interface that is C1 compared to LR, these guys are about speed, lightness, generic images (C1 is too complicated for that).

Then to charge this amount for the upgrade and REMOVE ONE SEAT...!  Completely lost touch with their current client base.  We tether to a laptop as a session, then import that into a workstation...!!!

I'm just glad I run both C1 AND LR 6.01....

Steve
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IanSeward

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Re: version 21 and a few points to consider before you upgrade.
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2021, 07:12:32 am »

Thanks Malcolm, its a sad time really, that's why I think we need the belt AND braces approach, Adobe don't give two hoots and as a business model that works for them. The suits at C1 know that they can skim off the service, pump up the prices, come out with bogus new features that are not worth a full price upgrade and people will put up with it.

They want the Sony/mirrorless/Youtube market, hence the speed edit... but they will fail because those guys won't and don't put up with the complicated interface that is C1 compared to LR, these guys are about speed, lightness, generic images (C1 is too complicated for that).

Then to charge this amount for the upgrade and REMOVE ONE SEAT...!  Completely lost touch with their current client base.  We tether to a laptop as a session, then import that into a workstation...!!!

I'm just glad I run both C1 AND LR 6.01....


Steve

Your comments on Speed Edit appealing to inexperienced users doesn't make much sense as it doesn't change anything regarding helping inexperienced users. I already have Speed Edit in V20 because I use a Midi to control C1 and have for several years. Speed Edit is aimed, as C1 have said, for people who process large numbers of images like wedding photographers, and it does allow a more immersive edit as you are no longer looking at sliders but at your image. Just like any change you have to get used to it but once you do you don't want to go back. Why would you choose to look at sliders, move your mouse/pen unnecessarily if there is  an alternative method that avoids this?

Try to imagine the situation if Speed Edit had been the normal way of editing and then someone came along and said, use these sliders in this panel off to the side instead, they would be laughed at.

Thomas Fitzgerald has a good review of V21 over at: https://blog.thomasfitzgeraldphotography.com/blog/2020/12/capture-one-21-review
Speed Edit

For those who don't like to follow links the part on Speed Edit is below:


The next big headline feature is ďSpeed EditĒ. I love Speed Edit. Itís one of those things that once you get used to it, it will change the way you work with the software, especially if you need to edit a lot of images quickly.

So, before I explain what Speed Edit is, let me explain what itís not. Itís not just some new keyboard shortcuts. I saw this narrative doing the rounds a lot, and itís not really the case. Speed edit is a new way to edit using the keyboard and mouse, and allows you to go through images quickly without having to keep going to different parts of the interface.

Basically you hold down a certain key, and you can drag the mouse left or right to increase or decrease the value. You can do this for the main exposure adjustments, and the shadow and highlight adjustments.

The keys to use for this are as follows:

    1 = Colour Balance
    2 = Tint
    q = Exposure
    w = Contrast
    e = Brightness
    r = Saturation
    a = Highlight
    s = Shadow
    d = White
    f = Black

At first glance these shortcuts might make no sense, as they donít seem to correspond to anything. In fact this was another recurring refrain from the folks who are angry about this. But itís not about matching the key to something in the name of the adjustment. Instead itís about the shape of the controls.

The first two keys of the numbers and first four keys of the first two lines of characters on the keyboard correspond to the controls in the three tools. This way your fingers rest naturally on these keys and you donít have to move your hand or even look at the keyboard. Otherwise, youíd be moving your hands around much more and probably having to look to check which key youíre pressing. Using this for a short period of time it becomes muscle memory and itís just natural.

Itís also really handy if youíre working on other tools in different tool tabs and you want to quickly adjust the exposure or high dynamic range tools. Once you get used to it, it really does speed up your workflow. Oh and it works really well with a Wacom tablet too. In fact, itís really natural to use on a tablet, and makes editing with a tablet even easier than normally, as you can drag over a wider area than you would with just the normal sliders.


For me V21 would make the Midi control redundant but these things happen, technology moves on and if you can achieve the same benefits, without extra hardware, everyone benefits, except me :-(

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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: version 21 and a few points to consider before you upgrade.
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2021, 08:07:08 am »

Your comments on Speed Edit appealing to inexperienced users doesn't make much sense as it doesn't change anything regarding helping inexperienced users. I already have Speed Edit in V20 because I use a Midi to control C1 and have for several years. Speed Edit is aimed, as C1 have said, for people who process large numbers of images like wedding photographers, and it does allow a more immersive edit as you are no longer looking at sliders but at your image. Just like any change you have to get used to it but once you do you don't want to go back. Why would you choose to look at sliders, move your mouse/pen unnecessarily if there is  an alternative method that avoids this?

I agree that this Speed Edit is a great feature.
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agawthrope

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Re: version 21 and a few points to consider before you upgrade.
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2021, 10:30:03 am »

Fortunetly I've not experienced this issue of the email with the new key not arriving but I'd like to make some suggestions:

a) Check your spam folders
b) Log into the Capture One website and check your contact email is still valid - If not use the 'Change email' button on the form.
c) The license key is always available on the Capture One website.  Log in using your account; Navigate to 'Manage Licenses'; Select the expand control - down arrow within a circle - at the end of the line titled 'Capture One Pro 21' in this case.  It will display your license key.

Andy
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stevebri

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Re: version 21 and a few points to consider before you upgrade.
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2021, 03:27:35 am »

@Ian,

Where did I say Speed edit is for inexperienced users..? Did you mean inexperienced generally in photography or inexperienced in C1..?

Neither are valid assumptions, my point with Ďspeed edití is that it isnít a big feature and would normally be included in a mid term free upgrade. 

@Andy,

Thanks for those valid tips, unfortunately my latest purchase is not recorded on my C1 profile with all my other purchases. All other tips I had checked already.
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stevebri

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Re: version 21 and a few points to consider before you upgrade.
« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2021, 03:31:11 am »

Monday morning,

Today I received a rather annoying email from Fastspring just giving me a link to my profile and purchases... still not showing my 2021 spend.

They never read my email at all, they never acknowledged my purchase via themselves and seem to have no idea.

I hope nobody else get stuck like this...

S
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IanSeward

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Re: version 21 and a few points to consider before you upgrade.
« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2021, 05:41:45 am »

@Ian,

Where did I say Speed edit is for inexperienced users..? Did you mean inexperienced generally in photography or inexperienced in C1..?

Neither are valid assumptions, my point with Ďspeed edití is that it isnít a big feature and would normally be included in a mid term free upgrade. 



I took it from your comment:

They want the Sony/mirrorless/Youtube market,

Ian
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stevebri

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Re: version 21 and a few points to consider before you upgrade.
« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2021, 08:56:23 am »

Unwise to assume Ian...

Its a market they want to go for and why not...?  Didn't mention inexperienced...
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IanSeward

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Re: version 21 and a few points to consider before you upgrade.
« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2021, 06:13:32 am »

Unwise to assume Ian...

Its a market they want to go for and why not...?  Didn't mention inexperienced...

You have to work with what is written. So I would like to know what does Speed Edit relate to then for this comment? "They want the Sony/mirrorless/Youtube market"

Ian
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Rhossydd

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Re: version 21 and a few points to consider before you upgrade.
« Reply #12 on: January 12, 2021, 06:23:02 am »

"They want the Sony/mirrorless/Youtube market"
Their pricing isn't going to make that an easy job.
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jeremyrh

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Re: version 21 and a few points to consider before you upgrade.
« Reply #13 on: January 16, 2021, 06:00:37 am »

Your comments on Speed Edit appealing to inexperienced users doesn't make much sense as it doesn't change anything regarding helping inexperienced users.

Regarding Speed Edit, in this video Phil Penman describes his workflow in which he edits in full screen mode and uses keyboard shortcuts to make changes - in effect he has set up shortcuts to make a very very limited version of Speed Edit.  Phil Penman is not a beginner or a wedding shooter!!  After I first watched this I copied his workflow (but not his images, unfortunately) and it was my everyday way of working, so when I downloaded the v21 beta and saw Speed Edit I immediately paid for the upgrade (no comment on the discounting policy, which was not C1's finest hour).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VD-Tugz_CSo&t=2212s
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adammork

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Re: version 21 and a few points to consider before you upgrade.
« Reply #14 on: January 27, 2021, 09:27:42 am »

Speed edit is nothing short of amazing!!

I have always preferred LR for the ease of workflow - and only used CO because of the files from my Phase back.

Now I'm only dreaming that LR copy this function - and I use a Loupedeck CT for when editing in LR, but CO speed edit is so much easier - it's in my view not a small upgrade.

/a
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