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Author Topic: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa  (Read 1292478 times)

Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #6100 on: January 22, 2021, 07:46:21 am »

More fake facts. If you really want to know the salaries of Alan's local professorship, they can be found here:
https://www.payscale.com/research/US/Employer=Princeton_University/Salary

Someone's paying for those million-dollar homes.  Your claim is fake.

Princeton University: $213,769  (average professor salary)
https://www.businessinsider.com/the-average-salaries-of-ivy-league-university-professors-2019-8#harvard-university-226394-8

Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #6101 on: January 22, 2021, 07:59:12 am »

You Canadians just aren't happy with any of our picks for president. 

Canadian PM Justin Trudeau ‘disappointed’ with Biden’s decision on first day
On President Joe Biden’s first day in office, the newly-minted president “disappointed” Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau as Biden signed an executive order to revoke the permit for the Keystone XL pipeline.
https://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/national/canadian-pm-trudeau-disappointed-with-bidens-decision-on-first-day

Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #6102 on: January 22, 2021, 08:02:25 am »

It seems Trudeau is bi-polar.  Apparently, he wants more green energy by burning more Canadian oil.

TC Energy says that the pipeline would create 13,200 jobs, with 10,400 being in the US and 2,800 being in Canada.
While Trudeau welcomed that the US would rejoin the Paris Agreement, revoking the permit will cost Canadian jobs, Trudeau said.

jeremyrh

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #6103 on: January 22, 2021, 08:03:11 am »

Someone's paying for those million-dollar homes.  Your claim is fake.

Princeton University: $213,769  (average professor salary)
https://www.businessinsider.com/the-average-salaries-of-ivy-league-university-professors-2019-8#harvard-university-226394-8

Do you think it's unreasonable for someone at the top of one of the world's best universities should earn $200K ?
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Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #6104 on: January 22, 2021, 08:22:09 am »

Do you think it's unreasonable for someone at the top of one of the world's best universities should earn $200K ?
It's not up to me or you to decide what someone should be paid or what's the appropriate amount.   Nor are salaries an abstract amount.  Free markets determine that. They are based on supply and demand.

In any case, you moved the goalposts. The original point we were discussing was that professors are in favor of government provided tuition loans because it raised income to the universities at tuition costs 4x inflation rate of the general economy.  Therefore, professors subsequently can get paid higher salaries.  So naturally, they are for those loans that kids get straddled for years to pay them off. Whatever salaries professors earn now would be less if it was not for those loans. 

faberryman

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #6105 on: January 22, 2021, 09:19:22 am »

It's not up to me or you to decide what someone should be paid or what's the appropriate amount.   Nor are salaries an abstract amount.  Free markets determine that. They are based on supply and demand.

Ah yes, the myths of the free market and the infallibility of the supply and demand curve. Do you know why it takes four years to earn a college degree in economics? One year to learn Economics 101 and three years to unlearn Economics 101. I can't wait until we move on to trickle down economics. That should be a laugh a minute.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2021, 09:54:42 am by faberryman »
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #6106 on: January 22, 2021, 10:08:20 am »

Continued internecine strife, https://www.politico.com/news/2021/01/21/trump-revenge-gop-impeachment-backers-461189. I guess debate and disagreement aren't always so highly valued.
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jeremyrh

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #6107 on: January 22, 2021, 10:09:45 am »


The original point we were discussing was that professors are in favor of government provided tuition loans because it raised income to the universities at tuition costs 4x inflation rate of the general economy.  Therefore, professors subsequently can get paid higher salaries. 

Compared with other sources of income, how important do you think tuition fees are for Princeton?
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #6108 on: January 22, 2021, 10:18:42 am »

Someone's paying for those million-dollar homes.  Your claim is fake.

Princeton University: $213,769  (average professor salary)
https://www.businessinsider.com/the-average-salaries-of-ivy-league-university-professors-2019-8#harvard-university-226394-8

Could be that the value of their real estate appreciated over time.

The idea that university professor salaries are overburdening the economy is laughably stupid.

Tuitions have gone up in recent decades because of major decreases in transfer payments from state and federal governments. Somewhere along the line, someone decided that education should be a consumer product and priced accordingly in the private sphere, completely ignoring its public value to the commonwealth. It was deemed more important to decrease taxes, regardless of the benefits provided by those taxes. There are consequences to those actions. But if you're happy with them, then that's fine. You're getting what you want. Is what you want good for you, that's another question. Were you presented with the facts when you made your decisions? I don't know.

Why is it bad to subsidize education but ok to subsidize pro sports teams?

A few well-endowed institutions are doing ok but many others are suffering. The number of people in university administration has skyrocketed while the number of permanent teaching and research staff stayed more or less even. And student debt soared beyond belief. Is there anyone who thinks this is a good trend? Why did you break something that was working?
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #6109 on: January 22, 2021, 10:21:24 am »

It's not up to me or you to decide what someone should be paid or what's the appropriate amount.   Nor are salaries an abstract amount.  Free markets determine that. They are based on supply and demand.

In any case, you moved the goalposts. The original point we were discussing was that professors are in favor of government provided tuition loans because it raised income to the universities at tuition costs 4x inflation rate of the general economy.  Therefore, professors subsequently can get paid higher salaries.  So naturally, they are for those loans that kids get straddled for years to pay them off. Whatever salaries professors earn now would be less if it was not for those loans.

The sad truth is that I don't believe a single one of the assertions you make. Have you even read any of the published books from the last decade or two analyzing the state of education in the US? You just keep reciting the same platitudes from your hymn book.
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Robert

Robert Roaldi

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #6110 on: January 22, 2021, 10:24:07 am »

So you list a source that undercuts your point at the end it? 

Also, this does not point out how much the wage was increased by.  Was it 10%, 25%, 110%, like we are suggesting?

My main point, badly stated because it was late and I had pressing matters to attend to, was that economic matters are multi-factorial and probably not linear, so any "analysis" based on gut feel is probably incomplete enough to actually be harmful. There are lots of people who spend a long time studying these things. Nothing is simple.
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Robert

Robert Roaldi

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #6111 on: January 22, 2021, 10:26:40 am »

It's not up to me or you to decide what someone should be paid or what's the appropriate amount.   Nor are salaries an abstract amount.  Free markets determine that. They are based on supply and demand.

The free market sent US low-tech manufacturing jobs overseas, yet that seems to disturb you. Which is it, is the free market good or bad? Or is it only good when it benefits you.
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LesPalenik

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #6112 on: January 22, 2021, 10:26:48 am »

The annual tuition fees at the top universities run over $50,000 in USA, £9,250 in UK (more for international students), $1,660 in Switzerland, and only €500 in public universities in Germany (more in private universities). Huge difference between USA and Germany.

https://www.topuniversities.com/student-info/student-finance/tuition-fees-worlds-top-universities
https://www.topuniversities.com/student-info/student-finance/how-much-does-it-cost-study-germany
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Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #6113 on: January 22, 2021, 10:28:37 am »

Compared with other sources of income, how important do you think tuition fees are for Princeton?
They must be very important if they increased tuition four-fold compared to the rest of the economy.  After all, if other services went up 1x or 2x like the regular economy, why was it necessary to increase tuitions 4x?  Where did all that money go if not for professor and administrator salaries and plant expansion and services?  They aren't sending me a check. 

By the way, here are University presidents' salaries.  They make professors look like pikers.  Princeton was just under $1 million the lowest of the whole ivy league group.  And these figures are a couple of years old. nOt a bad job if you can get it.  :)
https://cornellsun.com/2020/02/26/how-does-president-martha-pollacks-salary-stack-up-in-the-ivy-league/

faberryman

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #6114 on: January 22, 2021, 10:31:35 am »

Continued internecine strife, https://www.politico.com/news/2021/01/21/trump-revenge-gop-impeachment-backers-461189. I guess debate and disagreement aren't always so highly valued.

You know, I think there should be revenge for incitement to insurrection. I mean we say that the criminal justice system should be about rehabilitation, but it is mostly about getting the bad guys off the street. If it were about rehabilitation, we would just enroll murderers in a twelve step program and make them go to Murderers Anonymous meetings twice a week. Trump's got to go to jail.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2021, 01:41:49 pm by faberryman »
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LesPalenik

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #6115 on: January 22, 2021, 10:38:24 am »

They must be very important if they increased tuition four-fold compared to the rest of the economy.  After all, if other services went up 1x or 2x like the regular economy, why was it necessary to increase tuitions 4x?  Where did all that money go if not for professor and administrator salaries and plant expansion and services?  They aren't sending me a check. 

By the way, here are University presidents' salaries.  They make professors look like pikers.  Princeton was just under $1 million the lowest of the whole ivy league group.  And these figures are a couple of years old. nOt a bad job if you can get it.  :)
https://cornellsun.com/2020/02/26/how-does-president-martha-pollacks-salary-stack-up-in-the-ivy-league/

Compared with the $1 million+ salaries for university presidents in USA, Germany pays on average €200,000. The entry level presidents (1-3 years experience) get €75,000. Again, a huge difference.
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #6116 on: January 22, 2021, 10:38:31 am »

And while we were seemingly not paying much attention, the number of US Covid deaths reached 420,000 yesterday, according to Worldometer. I remind you that the US was at 300,000 deaths on December 10th, a few short weeks ago. The 2020 Christmas break was a risky time.
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Robert

Robert Roaldi

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #6117 on: January 22, 2021, 10:39:46 am »



By the way, here are University presidents' salaries.  They make professors look like pikers.  Princeton was just under $1 million the lowest of the whole ivy league group.  And these figures are a couple of years old. nOt a bad job if you can get it.  :)
https://cornellsun.com/2020/02/26/how-does-president-martha-pollacks-salary-stack-up-in-the-ivy-league/

Maybe it's the free market at work? :)
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LesPalenik

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #6118 on: January 22, 2021, 10:41:30 am »

And while we were seemingly not paying much attention, the number of US Covid deaths reached 420,000 yesterday, according to Worldometer. I remind you that the US was at 300,000 deaths on December 10th, a few short weeks ago. The 2020 Christmas break was a risky time.

At this rate, USA will record half a million C-19 deaths before Feb 15th.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #6119 on: January 22, 2021, 10:46:46 am »

The annual tuition fees at the top universities run over $50,000 in USA, £9,250 in UK (more for international students), $1,660 in Switzerland, and only €500 in public universities in Germany (more in private universities). Huge difference between USA and Germany.

https://www.topuniversities.com/student-info/student-finance/tuition-fees-worlds-top-universities
https://www.topuniversities.com/student-info/student-finance/how-much-does-it-cost-study-germany
In fairness, Ivy league schools in the US are not representative of all universities and colleges.  We have government-financed State colleges in most if not all states. Taxpayers subsidize tuition.  In NJ where I live:  Rutgers University yearly tuition for NJ residents $11,619.  Students who come from out-of-state tuition is $27,560 USD.  Princeton, private college is about 5x Rutgers resident costs.  Room and board for both schools extra.
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