Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa

[Alan Klein]

I previously posted a study in the real world that showed between 1% and 9% reduction due to masks.  The reason it may turn out greater is if other measures are being taken concurrently like quarantine, isolations, staying out of crowded spaces for shorter times, washing hands, etc.  Most of the studies were in labs seeing how many viruses you'd breathe in and exhale into a room.  But by itself, that proves little because you still could get Covid if you hang out too long.  Plus, other studies were under lab conditions.  There just aren't many studies in the real world other than the one I had posted.

[jeremyrh]

Unless that was sarcasm, I tend to agree.

No it wasn't sarcasm at all. 

[faberryman]

Slobodan, is there something else to your point besides fat people get sick? I think most people know that being overweight is not healthy. I remember early on that is was indicated as a co-morbidity, which isn't the slightest bit surprising.

[jeremyrh]

I previously posted a study in the real world that showed between 1% and 9% reduction due to masks.  The reason it may turn out greater is if other measures are being taken concurrently like quarantine, isolations, staying out of crowded spaces for shorter times, washing hands, etc.  Most of the studies were in labs seeing how many viruses you'd breathe in and exhale into a room.  But by itself, that proves little because you still could get Covid if you hang out too long.  Plus, other studies were under lab conditions.  There just aren't many studies in the real world other than the one I had posted.

It's difficult to imagine how you'd design such a study, as you'd have to take into account  the factor I mentioned above, which is real.  I am quite aware that if I cycle without a helmet i am  more careful than I would be with a helmet. Knowing about the risks on an intellectual level does not necessarily contol our behaviour !!

[Alan Klein]

I could imagine, actually, that masks are a bit like bike helmets and give the wearer an unjustified sense of invulnerbility leadng them to risky behaviour.

I agree with you here.  Especially because people don't wear them properly or use any old rag thinking it's working.  There are masks and then there are masks.

[Alan Klein]

It's difficult to imagine how you'd design such a study, as you'd have to take into account  the factor I mentioned above, which is real.  I am quite aware that if I cycle without a helmet i am  more careful than I would be with a helmet. Knowing about the risks on an intellectual level does not necessarily contol our behaviour !!

It is difficult to test because of all the variables. I bought some KN95 masks that ripped on me.  Worthless.  Other's blow up through the top into my eyes so I take them off when there's no one around.  Of course, just when you least expect it, some jerk comes up to you to ask for directions and coughs in your face.  Too late to put the mask on.  I think the caseload is going to be huge because of the holidays.  People are giving up. Being out of work with the government's policy of no evictions ending Dec 30th is getting people nervous about everything.  What are they doing in GB about rent and mortgage payments?

[digitaldog]

There are masks and then there are masks.

Do give us your recommendation on the masks you wear and why you recommend them above others.

[digitaldog]

Don't you find it at least unusual that such a comprehensive analysis, taking into account all other measures applied so far, doesn't even mention masks specifically. To me that speaks enough about mask relevance.

Your simplistic and incorrect post, then the lack of evidence you provided from LANCET illustrates to me, and I believe others, you have no idea what comprehensive analysis or even a simplistic analysis means.
You posted fiction and wild claims. You were asked for extraordinary evidence, you provided a URL to a respected family of journals. Nothing in the article stated what you wrote that you wish us to believe. Those posting have said, using clear and sound reasoning, they don't believe you. Get over it. You failed. Like Trump, don't be a sore loser.
Next time when you decided to make stuff up, if called out, provide better (any) evidence, maybe you'll be taken more seriously.

[Alan Klein]

Do give us your recommendation on the masks you wear and why you recommend them above others.

The first and best mask were KN95's I bought through a Chinese camera distributor who did me a favor and sent them directly from China. I have no idea who the manufacturer is.  I can't read Chinese on the package.   

[digitaldog]

Hi Frans - do you have some contribution to the subject? Or is your role just to follow Andrew around like an annoying little dog?

He's again lost. Maybe he wants to rant about the election certifications. Or sensor heat degrading images on cameras he's never touched/seen/used.
Or maybe he's got a clue and understands Jerk-In-Chief is the guy playing golf while thousands a day die from Covid-19.

[digitaldog]

The first and best mask were KN95's I bought through a Chinese camera distributor who did me a favor and sent them directly from China. I have no idea who the manufacturer is.  I can't read Chinese on the package.   

OK, then...

I bought some KN95 masks that ripped on me.  Worthless.  Other's blow up through the top into my eyes so I take them off when there's no one around.

Great review, thanks for the detailed and through data reported. 

Especially because people don't wear them properly or use any old rag thinking it's working.

That then rip?

Of course, just when you least expect it, some jerk comes up to you to ask for directions and coughs in your face.  Too late to put the mask on. 

Critical thinkers would suggest, that guy should be waring a mask; masks mainly protect OTHERS.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Slobodan, is there something else to your point besides fat people get sick?...

The point being, as posted in the screenshot above, that measures usually hailed as helpful (lockdowns, etc.), are not that much. The point is also relevant for international comparison. When someone says "Hey, just look at this or that country success vs. the US" (usually some Asian), worth bearing in mind the difference in obesity. The US is paying the price for its original sin, that is obesity epidemic.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Your simplistic and incorrect post, then the lack of evidence you provided from LANCET illustrates to me, and I believe others, you have no idea what comprehensive analysis or even a simplistic analysis means.
You posted fiction and wild claims. You were asked for extraordinary evidence, you provided a URL to a respected family of journals. Nothing in the article stated what you wrote that you wish us to believe. Those posting have said, using clear and sound reasoning, they don't believe you. Get over it. You failed. Like Trump, don't be a sore loser.
Next time when you decided to make stuff up, if called out, provide better (any) evidence, maybe you'll be taken more seriously.

Bye, Andrew.

In my 15 years on this forum, I put only a few people on the ignore list, none of the current members. But your constant inane, primitive, unintelligent, argumentative, repetitive, arguing-for-the-sake-of-arguing style has proven too taxing on my time and patience.

[digitaldog]

Slobodan, is there something else to your point besides fat people get sick?

As just seen, no. More generalizations, assumptions, devoid of facts. 

[digitaldog]

Bye, Andrew.

In my 15 years on this forum, I put only a few people on the ignore list, none of the current members. But your constant inane, primitive, unintelligent, argumentative, repetitive, arguing-for-the-sake-of-arguing style has proven too taxing on my time and patience.

Proof that ignorance is bliss.
I'll continue to read some of Slobodan's rubbish and call him out when necessary; trying to convince him to prove his points is fruitless and not the reason to call him out as it is impossible to puncture the unreality bubble surrounding a fact denier. We can only attempt to sway those with open minds towards facts, data, science. Slobodan hasn't shown that ability here.

[Frans Waterlander]

Bye, Andrew.

Bravo!

[digitaldog]

Bye, Andrew.

Bravo!

You could take the same advise but you cannot take advise.

[jeremyrh]

The point being, as posted in the screenshot above, that measures usually hailed as helpful (lockdowns, etc.), are not that much. The point is also relevant for international comparison. When someone says "Hey, just look at this or that country success vs. the US" (usually some Asian), worth bearing in mind the difference in obesity. The US is paying the price for its original sin, that is obesity epidemic.

I think it’s instructive to look at the graphs of infection, hospitalisation and death relative to dates of lockdown, even considering that the “lockdown” in the UK and US are pretty mild compared with a lot of Europe and especially compared with Wuhan. The effect is pretty clear.

[jeremyrh]

Proof that ignorance is bliss.
I'll continue to read some of Slobodan's rubbish and call him out when necessary; trying to convince him to prove his points is fruitless and not the reason to call him out as it is impossible to puncture the unreality bubble surrounding a fact denier. We can only attempt to sway those with open minds towards facts, data, science. Slobodan hasn't shown that ability here.

Slobo is quite wrong on the current subject but I usually enjoy sparring with him because he often challenges me to examine my own assumptions. He has his favourite hobby horses, it’s true:-). But beyond those he is an interesting contributor:-)

[faberryman]

Forced mask usage is closely related to lockdowns.

If you are in a lockdown, you are not going anywhere, so you are unlikely to be wearing a mask.

Besides, don't you find it at least unusual that such a comprehensive analysis, taking into account all other measures applied so far, doesn't even mention masks specifically. To me that speaks enough about mask relevance.

It doesn't surprise me in the least. I doubt there is very much reliable data about mask usage in the real world. For example, does anyone know the percentage of people who wear masks in jurisdictions with a mask mandate and the percentage of people who wear masks in jurisdictions without a mask mandate? Then there are those states without a mask mandate, where stores and such require masks be worn when inside their premises.