Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa

[Robert Roaldi]

Another pardon. There is no bottom https://www.youtube.com/shorts/_1n_CzaRnsA. (short video)

[digitaldog]

Another pardon. There is no bottom https://www.youtube.com/shorts/_1n_CzaRnsA. (short video)

The Turkey:
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-adds-two-thanksgiving-turkeys-long-list-second-term-pardons-rcna245820

[Robert Roaldi]

The Turkey:
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-adds-two-thanksgiving-turkeys-long-list-second-term-pardons-rcna245820

This might be a dad joke but you could argue that Trump consistently pardons "turkeys".

[Rob C]

This might be a dad joke but you could argue that Trump consistently pardons "turkeys".

Birds of a feather…

[Rob C]

Well, many Venezuelan nationals now find themselves stuck in Madrid’s main airport, their flights back home cancelled, quite illegally, by the latest antics of Mr T concerning international air space.

I think we are witnessing the meltdown of international law and order at an accelerating pace. Ukraine was a stark reminder of how might overrules right, and I suppose bullies on the eastern Mediterranean coast are showing us, daily, how killing becomes almost normal, especially as the number of victims becomes astronomical. It’s as if very high casualties somehow legitimise the act of killing, but lower victim counts are just terrorism. Strange, that.

[Robert Roaldi]

Well, many Venezuelan nationals now find themselves stuck in Madrid’s main airport, their flights back home cancelled, quite illegally, by the latest antics of Mr T concerning international air space.

I think we are witnessing the meltdown of international law and order at an accelerating pace. Ukraine was a stark reminder of how might overrules right, and I suppose bullies on the eastern Mediterranean coast are showing us, daily, how killing becomes almost normal, especially as the number of victims becomes astronomical. It’s as if very high casualties somehow legitimise the act of killing, but lower victim counts are just terrorism. Strange, that.

Is the USA now a rogue state? And for what.

[Rob C]

Those are two very pertinent questions, and the possible answers are pretty worrying.

Will things drift slowly into the position where once their official time in presidential office has run out, incumbents can choose to delay further elections, too? Precedents elsewhere are many. The more one educates the various armed forces into accepting face offs with their fellow countrymen, in their own country, the more dangerous those forces become to the health and wellbeing of their fellow citizens: they lose the sense of the enormity of what they are doing.

[Robert Roaldi]

Those are two very pertinent questions, and the possible answers are pretty worrying.

Will things drift slowly into the position where once their official time in presidential office has run out, incumbents can choose to delay further elections, too? Precedents elsewhere are many. The more one educates the various armed forces into accepting face offs with their fellow countrymen, in their own country, the more dangerous those forces become to the health and wellbeing of their fellow citizens: they lose the sense of the enormity of what they are doing.

There's talk of war crimes to do with the sinking of those so-called drug boats that were posing such a danger to the US. The information was made public by journalists, and so predictably Trumpistan has launched anti-press statements (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vR33ZWRmZJY). It's as if they think the media is the government's marketing department.

I don't think there will be many repercussions. Unless outrage attains My Lai Massacre levels (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai_massacre) and outpaces Trump's cognitive abilities  to react, the administration will protect itself first. In the last resort, all Trump has to do is pardon everyone, then resign and be in turn pardoned himself by Vance. Who would be surprised by this. The entire cabal is in it for itself, why would they do anything else. But I'm not detecting much public outrage. The drug story has plausible deniability, so far, and there are probably enough Americans who do actually believe that the USA has the right to do whatever it wants to other sovereign countries. Trump et al certainly believe that. He's not looking very well these days though, so he may not need so many distractions soon.

[digitaldog]

'The Greatest Sentence Ever Written'
https://www.cnn.com/2025/11/30/politics/video/gps-1130-isaacson-declaration-of-independence

[PeterAit]

In the last resort, all Trump has to do is pardon everyone, then resign and be in turn pardoned himself by Vance. Who would be surprised by this.

Pre-emptive pardons should be forbidden. Pardon only after trial and a guilty verdict. This would ensure that a trial is held and all the details come out about whatever is being tried. And the pardonee will br free of punishment but not of the stigma of having been found guilty.

[Rob C]

This may be terribly naïve, but why should political “pardons” exist at all?

[MattBurt]

Pre-emptive pardons should be forbidden. Pardon only after trial and a guilty verdict. This would ensure that a trial is held and all the details come out about whatever is being tried. And the pardonee will br free of punishment but not of the stigma of having been found guilty.

I agree with this idea but then I think about the preemptive pardon for Fauci that probably saved him from being indicted on some BS charges from the Trump admin.

[Robert Roaldi]

This may be terribly naïve, but why should political “pardons” exist at all?

This and other posts by a former DOJ "pardon attorney" may provide the answer https://www.youtube.com/shorts/nYoMJAYWIoI. I say "may" because I have not seen all of her videos, just the occasional one.

[Rob C]

This and other posts by a former DOJ "pardon attorney" may provide the answer https://www.youtube.com/shorts/nYoMJAYWIoI. I say "may" because I have not seen all of her videos, just the occasional one.

Thank you for the link, which explains much!

This more than obvious use of “pardons’ to help party friends out of trouble is amazing, and when one understands the implications, becomes a blatantly corrupt use of that power. The cynicism and acceptance of it by anybody, party members included, says as much about the members as it does of the person granting those pardons. Surely, there must come a point when self-respect forces voters to turn their backs on such a group of politicians and, by definition, that party?

I reached such a point with my own party, the Conservatives, over the matter of Brexit. All that lying and misrepresentation of what the Brexit process would deliver was so obvious that I couldn’t understand how anybody could fall for it. To this day, not a soul has been able to identify a single benefit accruing from that mad decision to cast the country adrift in a time when collective strength becomes ever more important.

[Robert Roaldi]

Thank you for the link, which explains much!

This more than obvious use of “pardons’ to help party friends out of trouble is amazing, and when one understands the implications, becomes a blatantly corrupt use of that power. The cynicism and acceptance of it by anybody, party members included, says as much about the members as it does of the person granting those pardons. Surely, there must come a point when self-respect forces voters to turn their backs on such a group of politicians and, by definition, that party?

I reached such a point with my own party, the Conservatives, over the matter of Brexit. All that lying and misrepresentation of what the Brexit process would deliver was so obvious that I couldn’t understand how anybody could fall for it. To this day, not a soul has been able to identify a single benefit accruing from that mad decision to cast the country adrift in a time when collective strength becomes ever more important.

I've only been reading headlines about US news lately, no details, but the stuff about pardons is truly bizarre. He is letting out some proven nasty people, which only makes the sinking of "drug" boats more ironic. Is he a law & order guy or not?  I saw an item that he is "considering" a pardon for Ghislaine Maxwell. What possible justification is there for that other than the most cynical?

He must be selling these pardons, it's the only explanation that makes sense. If the mid-terms don't go in his favour and so can no longer claim real world power of that kind that's worth bribing him for, he'll still be able to fall back on the selling of pardons as a side gig. Assuming he lives long enough, that is. He should really stop doing those social media posting all-nighters at his age.

[degrub]

his "law", his "order"
With any luck, he will sink the Republican boat while he is at it.

[Rob C]

his "law", his "order"
With any luck, he will sink the Republican boat while he is at it.

Yeah, but then what? it’s highly possible that the other side has nothing convincing to offer, either. Britain’s already there, Spain too, and it seems as if nowhere currently offers an honest form of governance free of corruption or with the balls to do anything worthwhile to fix current ills. Many of these are obvious, with just as obvious fixes, but these won’t be implemented because of poll fear and the automatic negative reflex reaction of the other party - whichever it might be. Until parties come to accept that neither is the custodian of ultimate wisdom, that the other guy can often be right, too, and decisions are made in the interests of the country, not simply those of any given political party, then the status quo will continue until it faces internal solution via revolution, or invasion by another country not shacked to what seem to have become quaintly absurd ideas of international fair play. I mean, when you have a situation where Russia and the States seem to feel perfectly entitled to settle, alone, the fate of Ukraine, a country invaded by one of the participants, the other the main supplier of selectively chosen arms to the victim country, arms that deny it enough reach to be effective, you don’t need to be a cynic to feel that Ukraine’s head is stuck in the barrel, its ass sticking out for the kicking of by either or both the other parties to the affray.


Today, Spain announced that it will not be covering the Eurovision Song Contest for as long as Israel is allowed to be present in it too. I think another four or five counties have arrived at the same conclusion, the idea being to deny Israel a platform for propaganda. I haven’t watched the show for decades - these concepts seem so out of date - just like the various beauty pageants are. I say that not out of some mad sense of political correctness, but simply because the format could bore you to death. On the other hand, perhaps I’ve just lost my libido. At my age, can think of far worse fates! Like being on of those social media platforms, for instance.
 

[Frans Waterlander]

I hate to break the news, Rob, but you are on the social media platform right here.

[digitaldog]

I hate to break the news, Frans, but you are on a photographer's forum right here.
Go here and find a site aimed at you: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Far-right_usage_of_social_media
Ouch: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-truth-social-foreign-users-x-b2877291.html

[Frans Waterlander]

I hate to break the news, Frans, but you are on a photographer's forum right here.

"Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa" doesn't sound like a photographer's forum to most reasonable people. And your reaction time really is going down the tubes.