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Author Topic: Browsers vs Photoshop on wide gamut monitor  (Read 1549 times)

Redcrown

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Browsers vs Photoshop on wide gamut monitor
« on: October 07, 2020, 12:06:00 pm »

These images are as displayed on a calibrated BenQ Sw270C wide gamut monitor. Monitor was set to the calibrated LUT with matching Windows 10 ICM profile.

The browsers are all current versions. The browser images were made by:

1. Doing a screen grab (print screen).
2. Pasting that into a Photoshop document with no color management.
3. Assigning the monitor custom ICM profile.
4. Converting that to sRGB.

The Photoshop image is straight from Photoshop in sRGB (not a screen grab).

My observations: The Firefox image is the closest match to Photoshop. Not and exact match, but very close. The Edge image is also close, but the blacks are darker. The Chrome image is over saturated and way off, with loss of detail in the balls on top of the headgear.

Firexox is supposed to be color managed. Everything I read says Chrome and Edge are built on the same "chromium" base, are not color managed, and should show over saturation on a wide gamut monitor. Chrome does that, but Edge does not.


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digitaldog

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Re: Browsers vs Photoshop on wide gamut monitor
« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2020, 12:14:35 pm »

IF a browser or any other software is correctly color managed, it will match Photoshop and all other ICC color aware applications. Simple.
sRGB isn't the answer on sRGB color gamut displays or otherwise. On non color managed software, sRGB (and the properties of the display) is an unknown concept.

sRGB urban legend & myths Part 2

In this 17 minute video, I'll discuss some more sRGB misinformation and cover:
When to use sRGB and what to expect on the web and mobile devices
How sRGB doesn't insure a visual match without color management, how to check
The downsides of an all sRGB workflow
sRGB's color gamut vs. "professional" output devices
The future of sRGB and wide gamut display technology
Photo print labs that demand sRGB for output

High resolution: http://digitaldog.net/files/sRGBMythsPart2.mp4
Low resolution on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WyvVUL1gWVs
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rasworth

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Re: Browsers vs Photoshop on wide gamut monitor
« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2020, 12:54:28 pm »

Chrome and Edge fall apart wrt CM if the image's embedded profile has a tone curve much different than sRGB.  Firefox is "the best of the rest". 

https://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=134695.0

Richard Southworth

Added by edit - and Safari also "ok".
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simon.garrett@iee.org

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Re: Browsers vs Photoshop on wide gamut monitor
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2020, 05:16:44 am »

Last time I checked (a few months ago), Firefox, Chrome, Vivaldi (Chrome-based) and the new Edge (also Chrome-based) were colour-managed.  The old Edge and IE were half colour managed in that they respected embedded profiles in images but ignored the monitor profile, assuming all monitors to be sRGB.  Also Brave (another Chrome-based browser) and Safari were colour-managed.

The result the OP gets from Chrome does not reflect my experience.  At default settings, I'm pretty sure Chrome is colour managed unless some recent change has crippled it. 
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rasworth

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Re: Browsers vs Photoshop on wide gamut monitor
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2020, 10:06:09 am »

The result the OP gets from Chrome does not reflect my experience.  At default settings, I'm pretty sure Chrome is colour managed unless some recent change has crippled it.

I thought so too, until GWGill straightened me out.  Read the posts via my earlier link.

Richard Southworth
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digitaldog

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Re: Browsers vs Photoshop on wide gamut monitor
« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2020, 11:19:01 am »

Some color managed browsers treat untagged image data differently and always assuming sRGB or a display profile can be the wrong assumption. The trouble with untagged image data....
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rasworth

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Re: Browsers vs Photoshop on wide gamut monitor
« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2020, 11:26:10 am »

In my earlier post I misstated the problem - Edge Chromium, Edge and Chrome will translate the colors ok, but their color management engines don't pick up the monitor's tone curve.  Most monitors have gammas near 2.2, so the difference is not always apparent.  See the link in my earlier post for details on an experiment to demonstrate the issue.

Richard Southworth

Added by edit - my experiment was performed in April.  It's possible one or more of the browsers have been corrected, but the OP's images would indicate otherwise.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2020, 11:31:00 am by rasworth »
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digitaldog

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Re: Browsers vs Photoshop on wide gamut monitor
« Reply #7 on: October 08, 2020, 11:52:25 am »

Nitpicking but still factual; many displays have a 2.2 TRC (Tone Response Curve) like that of sRGB as an example. It isn't a gamma curve if it doesn't follow the gamma formula.
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Stephen G

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Re: Browsers vs Photoshop on wide gamut monitor
« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2020, 11:57:18 am »

I'm on Win10 and using Chrome and a wide gamut screen. My experience with it agrees with Richard's description. It gets things almost right, but if I throw ProPhotoRGB images, or images converted to printer profiles, at it then the contrast is a bit out of whack. Colour remains similar to the same image displayed correctly in Photoshop.

I used to use Firefox up until a few months back. Colour was good. Something switched and it started doing the over-saturated images trick. I just reinstalled and tested it now and it is still the case.
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rasworth

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Re: Browsers vs Photoshop on wide gamut monitor
« Reply #9 on: October 08, 2020, 12:50:58 pm »

Color management has to be turned on in Firefox, https://cameratico.com/color-management/firefox/

Richard Southworth
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Stephen G

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Re: Browsers vs Photoshop on wide gamut monitor
« Reply #10 on: October 09, 2020, 06:01:59 am »

Yes, I read that post a few months back when I first had issues. It was turned on then, and also yesterday when I re-tested.
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simon.garrett@iee.org

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Re: Browsers vs Photoshop on wide gamut monitor
« Reply #11 on: October 09, 2020, 07:58:39 am »

Color management has to be turned on in Firefox, https://cameratico.com/color-management/firefox/

Richard Southworth
Colour management is turned on in Firefox by default, but it doesn't colour-manage images without embedded profiles, which is very silly (and contrary to WWW guidelines for browsers).  You have to set gfx.color_management.mode to 1.  There was a recent bug in FF 77 that meant that gfx.color_management.mode didn't work, but that's fixed now. 

However, for images with embedded profiles that bug did not affect colour management. 
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kers

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Re: Browsers vs Photoshop on wide gamut monitor
« Reply #12 on: October 09, 2020, 10:07:18 am »

Color management has to be turned on in Firefox, https://cameratico.com/color-management/firefox/

Richard Southworth

Thanks very helpful!
Firefox is my standard browser.
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Pieter Kers
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