Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: Another Print Color Cast Problem  (Read 1209 times)

Robert Boire

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 267
    • www.robertboire.ca
Another Print Color Cast Problem
« on: October 03, 2020, 09:15:51 am »

I have been having a problem with a purple color cast on my Epson 2880 and my diagnostic steps only raise more questions for me related to both color managment and the printer itself.

Attached are scans of two test prints.

CM by LIghtroom 1.jpg is a scan of a print on Epson Ultrapremium Lustre with color management done by LR. The purple cast is quite visible. I am certain I have selected the correct paper profile (the generic profile as provided by Epson) and turned off color management in the printer driver. CM by Printer.jpg is a scan of a print with color management by the printer, set to automatic and sRGB. The color cast is much reduced and the colors are nearly acceptable.   A nozzle check prior to printing indicated cleaning was not necessary. Note that the documentation supplied with the printer suggests that color management should be done by LR, not by the printer.

As you can see the two prints are very different. I would have thought the results should be nearly identical. This is a new issue as previous prints with color management by LR were just fine.

Epson customer support told me that " when allowing LightRoom to manage colors it expands the color gamut a little bit more than when the printer manages colors so there will be a noticeable difference between the two ". This seems like absolute nonsense to me. Any thoughts?

BTW, both prints also are showing very fine vertical banding. What is causing that?

Finally, CM by Lightrooom 2. jpg is a scan after head cleaning (which the nozzle check indicated was not necessary!). The result is better and the banding is reduced, but not gone. Ironically the result of the nozzle check after clearning showed gaps in Cyan that were not there in the check before clearnng!

digitaldog

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 20630
  • Andrew Rodney
    • http://www.digitaldog.net/
Re: Another Print Color Cast Problem
« Reply #1 on: October 03, 2020, 09:30:18 am »

Remove each cartridge and give them a gentle shake, try another nozzle check and maybe head alignment and test again.
Print driver is up to date and from Epson themselves?
Do not expect the two different types of print paths to match.
Logged
http://www.digitaldog.net/
Author "Color Management for Photographers".

Robert Boire

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 267
    • www.robertboire.ca
Re: Another Print Color Cast Problem
« Reply #2 on: October 03, 2020, 09:38:56 am »

I did the cartridge shake before the test prints since the printer had not been used for several months.

I did not expect the two different print paths be be identical, but I did not expect them to be so different!

Yes driver is up to date and from Epson.

digitaldog

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 20630
  • Andrew Rodney
    • http://www.digitaldog.net/
Re: Another Print Color Cast Problem
« Reply #3 on: October 03, 2020, 09:47:54 am »

You see a global magenta shift or just blues going magenta?
Logged
http://www.digitaldog.net/
Author "Color Management for Photographers".

Robert Boire

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 267
    • www.robertboire.ca
Re: Another Print Color Cast Problem
« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2020, 10:12:38 am »

All colors are off, so I would say its a global magenta shift. Did you look at the test prints?

digitaldog

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 20630
  • Andrew Rodney
    • http://www.digitaldog.net/
Re: Another Print Color Cast Problem
« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2020, 11:13:39 am »

Start from scratch, in LR setting up a new Print template with all correct settings including the Epson driver and do NOT pick a preset in the Epson driver itself. Have it set for Default Settings.
Logged
http://www.digitaldog.net/
Author "Color Management for Photographers".

Frans Waterlander

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 873
Re: Another Print Color Cast Problem
« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2020, 11:54:50 am »

I did have similar issues with my R2880 with some cartridges being 3 years since installation. Did the shake and clean routine but that didn't change anything. Replacing the old cartridges resolved the issue.
Logged

Robert Boire

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 267
    • www.robertboire.ca
Re: Another Print Color Cast Problem
« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2020, 12:37:41 pm »

Start from scratch, in LR setting up a new Print template with all correct settings including the Epson driver and do NOT pick a preset in the Epson driver itself. Have it set for Default Settings.

What is the purpose? what do you suspect?

Robert Boire

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 267
    • www.robertboire.ca
Re: Another Print Color Cast Problem
« Reply #8 on: October 03, 2020, 12:38:50 pm »

I did have similar issues with my R2880 with some cartridges being 3 years since installation. Did the shake and clean routine but that didn't change anything. Replacing the old cartridges resolved the issue.

I suppose that may explain the colors, but what about the vertical banding?

digitaldog

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 20630
  • Andrew Rodney
    • http://www.digitaldog.net/
Re: Another Print Color Cast Problem
« Reply #9 on: October 03, 2020, 12:45:00 pm »

What is the purpose? what do you suspect?
Issues with Print Templates is well know, settings OTHER than Default Settings for the Epson driver can cause issues because all the settings, and I mean all, are contained in the exiting Print Template. But if you have Photoshop, you can try printing there and compare it to LR. Match?
As for the 'idea' it's old ink, pretty much nonsensical. For one, Printer Manages Color is acceptable, pigmented inks can be used years and years after the expiration date.
It's either the profile, in which case you'd see the same issues printing in Photoshop (all settings being equal) or more likely, something wonky in LR hence, starting from scratch with a new, virgin Print Template and correct Epson driver settings, again including NOT using a preset like seen here but rather the setting named Default:
Logged
http://www.digitaldog.net/
Author "Color Management for Photographers".

Frans Waterlander

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 873
Re: Another Print Color Cast Problem
« Reply #10 on: October 03, 2020, 02:02:45 pm »

I suppose that may explain the colors, but what about the vertical banding?
What age are the cartridges?
Logged

Dale Villeponteaux

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 378
Re: Another Print Color Cast Problem
« Reply #11 on: October 03, 2020, 08:49:54 pm »

I am reminded of what Oliver Cromwell said to the Long Parliament
on dismissing it. I don't remember the exact wording, but to paraphrase:
"In the name of God, go! For you have sat here far too long for any
good that you have done."

Regards,
Dale
Logged
My avatar isn't an accurate portrayal; I have much less hair.

Robert Boire

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 267
    • www.robertboire.ca
Re: Another Print Color Cast Problem
« Reply #12 on: October 03, 2020, 09:16:39 pm »

Issues with Print Templates is well know, settings OTHER than Default Settings for the Epson driver can cause issues because all the settings, and I mean all, are contained in the exiting Print Template. But if you have Photoshop, you can try printing there and compare it to LR. Match?


Ok, I will give it a try...eventually... having run out of ink again (sigh)...

But I find it odd that if this is a known problem that Epson has not addressed it. And the fact that I have used templates for years without problems.

Robert Boire

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 267
    • www.robertboire.ca
Re: Another Print Color Cast Problem
« Reply #13 on: October 03, 2020, 09:26:07 pm »

What age are the cartridges?

The oldest is probably less than two years old and the Cyans (which seem to be part of the problem) are almost new.

What I have noticed in the past is that I have had similar color casts when the level of ink in some of the cartridges is running low. As if the printer cannot deliver the ink. Even though the driver says I can continue printing. Replacing the cartridge in that case has helped. And cyan is often the problem, come to think of it. Though I am not even sure if this is a valid observation or just anecdotal. But regardless that is an error prone and expensive process. Since the only way to know its time to replace the cartridge is when the print quality degrades. And it wastes a lot of ink.

digitaldog

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 20630
  • Andrew Rodney
    • http://www.digitaldog.net/
Re: Another Print Color Cast Problem
« Reply #14 on: October 03, 2020, 09:31:05 pm »

But I find it odd that if this is a known problem that Epson has not addressed it. And the fact that I have used templates for years without problems.
Not Epson per se, LR and templates and how the driver settings are stored. Anyway, I'd give it a try or verify that Photoshop also produces the same issues if you have it. That eliminates or confirms it's a LR issue or not.
Logged
http://www.digitaldog.net/
Author "Color Management for Photographers".

digitaldog

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 20630
  • Andrew Rodney
    • http://www.digitaldog.net/
Re: Another Print Color Cast Problem
« Reply #15 on: October 03, 2020, 09:33:44 pm »

The oldest is probably less than two years old and the Cyans (which seem to be part of the problem) are almost new.
Thanks for putting to rest, that flat earth theory it's old cartridges we've heard here in the past from one poster.  ;)
Quote
What I have noticed in the past is that I have had similar color casts when the level of ink in some of the cartridges is running low
Shouldn't be. First, you can print until the ink runs out and the printer refuses to go on. In fact I've used many Epson's to the point it will stop, mid print and I've popped in a new cartridge and it takes up where it left off with no visual difference. Then there is the fact there's always some ink in the lines going from cartridges to the print head. So even when the printer stops, there's still ink and it picks up when the new cartridge is placed back in the printer, using the old ink.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2020, 10:05:56 pm by digitaldog »
Logged
http://www.digitaldog.net/
Author "Color Management for Photographers".

Robert Boire

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 267
    • www.robertboire.ca
Re: Another Print Color Cast Problem
« Reply #16 on: October 03, 2020, 10:00:19 pm »

I am reminded of what Oliver Cromwell said to the Long Parliament
on dismissing it. I don't remember the exact wording, but to paraphrase:
"In the name of God, go! For you have sat here far too long for any
good that you have done."



Ahh... I had not realized that Cromwell had used an Epson printer.

JRSmit

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 922
    • Jan R. Smit Fine Art Printing Specialist
Re: Another Print Color Cast Problem
« Reply #17 on: October 04, 2020, 01:54:09 am »

Robert, did you solve your problem?
If not, one cause can be that the room temperature went too high and for several days. I had this years ago with a stylus pro 4900. Eventually replacing cyan and yellow solved it.
Logged
Fine art photography: janrsmit.com
Fine Art Printing Specialist: www.fineartprintingspecialist.nl


Jan R. Smit

Robert Boire

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 267
    • www.robertboire.ca
Re: Another Print Color Cast Problem
« Reply #18 on: October 04, 2020, 09:53:35 am »

Robert, did you solve your problem?
If not, one cause can be that the room temperature went too high and for several days. I had this years ago with a stylus pro 4900. Eventually replacing cyan and yellow solved it.
When I think the room overheated while I was printing using my LR template just as my old Cyan ink ran out... Or none of the above. ;D

Sorry, I could not resist....

Well it depends on the definition of  'too high'. Its possible that the room was as  hot as 32 C during a hot humid summer when the printer was not in use when I was out of town. But it was not a furnace either. But that would mean that the inks are susceptible to permanent damage from temperature and humidity. A frightening and expensive thought...

digitaldog

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 20630
  • Andrew Rodney
    • http://www.digitaldog.net/
Re: Another Print Color Cast Problem
« Reply #19 on: October 04, 2020, 11:00:54 am »

Probably an over heated and expired camera sensor. 🙀
Logged
http://www.digitaldog.net/
Author "Color Management for Photographers".
Pages: [1]   Go Up