What to buy in 2020 Epson P800 or P900?

[Tibor O]

I have a dilemma.

I am considering buying an A2 photo printer to be used only for this use case:

1. Only Pk (Photo black) will be used, no Mk (Matte black).
Edit 15. 9.: I removed "for Pk only" also from the topic Subject. I might add two Mk papers after all.

2. I will use only A4, A3, A3+ and A2 sheet paper.

3. These two Pk papers will be used: (i) Hahnemühle Photo Rag Baryta 315g and (ii) Ilford Galerie Gold Fibre Gloss 310g.
Edit 15. 9.: And also these two Mk papers:(iii) Hahnemühle Museum Etching 350g (iv) Ilford Galerie Cotton Artist Textured 310g

4. Only studio portraits on brown / green / grey backgrounds will be printed.

5. I will print from macOS 10.13.6 High Sierra using Dinax Mirage 4 software. I have a dedicated off-line legacy Mac computer for this purpose that won't be upgraded. Printing is via Ethernet.

6. I will have custom ICC profiles with 2400 measurement patches made for me by Dinax.

7. No Black & White prints.

8. Printing will be low volume, that is approx. 10 A4 prints, 8 A3/A3+ prints / 6 A2 prints weekly or approx. 1,200 prints yearly.

I have ruled out the Canon Pro 1000 due to high maintenance costs reported on the forums.

I am now torn between the Epson P800 and the Epson P900.

Here are costs for the P800 and the P900 for comparison purposes only.

Costs for the P800 are:

1. I can get a new printer for 989,99 €.

2. Two new maintenance tanks will cost me 40,92 €.

3. Two sets of inks without Mk will cost me 809,44 € (a total of 160 ml per ink).

4. My total cost would be 1,840.35 €.

5. Recalculated per 1 ml the cost is 1.44 € (1,840.35 divided by 1,280 ml (160 ml x 8 inks).

Cost for the P900 are:

1. I can get a new printer for 1,149.99 €.

2. Two new maintenance tanks will cost me 44,82 €.

3. Two sets of inks without Mk will cost me 1,102.68 € (a total of 150 ml per ink).

4. My total cost would be 2,297.49 €.

5. Recalculated per 1 ml the cost is 1.70 € (2,297.49 divided by 1,350 ml (150 ml x 9 inks).

Not a big difference in my opinion.

I have a dedicated printer stand that can accommodate the P800 and can handle 50kg so size and weight advantages of the P900 do not matter to me.

What would you advise me to get?

Here are my points of interest:

1. Paper handling - which printer would better handle the Hahnemühle Photo Rag Baryta 315g and the Ilford Galerie Gold Fibre Gloss 310g A4, A3, A3+ and A2 sheets? Edit 15. 9.: And also the Hahnemühle Museum Etching and the Ilford Galerie Cotton Artist Textured 310g A4, A3, A3+ and A2 sheets?

2. Will the P900s increase in gamut due to the added Violet ink be noticeable?

3. Is buying a 2015 printer (the P800) wise in 2020? How long will Epson provide us with inks for the P800?

[mearussi]

The main advantage of the older P800 printer is that most, if not all, of the bugs are either known or have been fixed, whereas the bug identification and elimination process is beginning anew for the P900. There's also a large body of operational data available from users for the P800 but none for the P900.

Any image quality difference is unknown at this time. The one real advantage of the P900 is, as you mentioned, ink will be available for it longer, though I doubt there will be a lack of P800 ink for at least a decade.

[gkroeger]

One possible advantage P900 (to be proven in practice) would be the ability to load these fine-art papers through the top sheet feeder. The front feeder of the P800 can be problematic at times.

[kers]

Since you know what paper you like to use - start from there and then buy the printer that does the best Job . Printer and paper have to match.
For instance- i have a hpz3100 that prints a gloss layer.
The HM Rag Baryta works fine, the Ilford doesn’t.

[unesco]

P800 prints beautifully on both papers, but as for all non-vacum paper handling Epsons it makes so called pizza wheel marks on both of those papers in deep dark areas. No idea how it would go for P900.

Paper handling for P800 fine art printing is far from ideal but acceptable if you on average are going to print 1 A4 + 1 A3 + A2 daily. BTW, it is not that low volume for this printer, since it is not a production unit as 24" or 44" ones.

Differences in gamut will be noticeable only if printed portraits use highly saturated blues/violets (I suppose not, but have not seen your pictures).

P800 is internally almost the same as 3880 so, more than a decade of experience from thousands of users (3880 is thought as the best Epson printer ever). P900 is unknown. Might be a breakthrough or a disaster (new larger P7500/9500 have some problems).

As for PK only, if you choose P800 you need to switch PK/MK once a few months (e.g. 3) to keep the valve clean without sediments, otherwise there might be some problems with stuck valve etc.

Just make your typical prints on both printers, examine them carefully and then decide. At least make them on P800 which is widely available. If it fulfills your requirements, just go for it - 2015 technology doesn't mean much here (in fact as an evolution, one would say that even 2005 technology... with new inks).

To spoil your decission even more, I personally do not like deep black on P800. Prints have some gloss differential in full PK black areas. 3880 inks, although with lower dMax, looks more smooth. No idea how P900 PK black ink works and how Black Enhanced Overcoat mode improves the final result.

[Chris Kern]

One possible advantage P900 (to be proven in practice) would be the ability to load these fine-art papers through the top sheet feeder. The front feeder of the P800 can be problematic at times.

That's an understatement―at least, if you're planning to use thick, stiff paper.  There are workarounds, but they're a pain in the ass and if I was making a purchase decision now, I would definitely opt for the P900, which reportedly resolves the fine art paper-feed problems.

Having said that, I've been using my P800 for five years and I'm otherwise very pleased with it.  Never had a nozzle clog, and I'm a low-volume user, and I'm still on my first maintenance tank (but I'm a low-volume user.)

Only Pk (Photo black) will be used, no Mk (Matte black). . . .

Costs for the P800 are:

Two new maintenance tanks will cost me 40,92 €.

Cost for the P900 are:

Two new maintenance tanks will cost me 44,82 €.

By the way, if you're not going to switch between black inks, why are you planning to buy two replacement maintenance tanks?

[gkroeger]

That's an understatement―at least, if you're planning to use thick, stiff paper.  There are workarounds, but they're a pain in the ass and if I was making a purchase decision now, I would definitely opt for the P900, which reportedly resolves the fine art paper-feed problems.

I debated how acerbic to be about front loading... "pain in the ass" is a fair description much of the time

[FabienP]

I debated how acerbic to be about front loading... "pain in the ass" is a fair description much of the time

Agreed, that is the case on my P600 as well.

Are there reports about the ability to use the normal paper feed on the P900 when using 315 gsm papers such as Hannemühle Photo Rag Baryta? If so, one could bypass the front loading mechanism altogether. Front loading seems similar in the new printers, though there might have been improvements in everyday handling which have not yet been reported in reviews of the P700 printer.

Cheers,
Fabien

[gkroeger]

Are there reports about the ability to use the normal paper feed on the P900 when using 315 gsm papers such as Hannemühle Photo Rag Baryta? If so, one could bypass the front loading mechanism altogether. Front loading seems similar in the new printers, though there might have been improvements in everyday handling which have not yet been reported in reviews of the P700 printer.

Cheers,
Fabien

It's not yet clear.  Epson's sales literature and online videos talk about top loading "fine art" paper... but the user guide has a table that suggests Legacy and Exhibition Fiber are front loaded.  Time will tell.

[Tibor O]

Thank you all  All this is great info. Much appreciated

After some additional thought I did edit my first post today as I might add also these two Mk papers: the Hahnemühle Museum Etching 350g and the Ilford Galerie Cotton Artist Textured 310g. But in much lower quantities that the Pk's, like a third or even a quarter of the Pk's.

Some feedback:

@mearussi: good point about bugs and operational data. Waiting for the first P900 reviews and real users feedback is therefore good advised. I guess waiting two or three more months is not a deal breaker for me (as long as P800 will be still available then, one can hope, right).

@gkroeger: Thank you for the info on the possible ability to load these fine-art papers through the top sheet feeder of the P900. As you said that it's not yet clear as you found discrepancy between the Epson's sales literature / online videos and the user guide I hope the first reviewers will clear this topic for us.

@unesco: I think the pizza wheel marks and the Black Enhanced Overcoat mode are another topics for the first reviewers. You are right about my portraits, they don't use highly saturated blues/violets.

@Chris Kern: good point about the possibility of resolving the fine art paper-feed problems with the P900.

My conclusions so far:

1. Print quality

The P900 in theory has a slight advantage due to slightly larger gamut (added new Violet ink) and the Black Enhanced Overcoat mode. To be proven in first reviews if relevant to my work.

2. Pk / Mk switching

The P900 has the advantage due to no ink switching. But for my use case, now adding also the Mk papers in lower quantities, occasional Mk / Pk switch of the P800 is not a deal breaker.

3. Fine art paper sheet feeding

Unknown. However, in theory the P900 could have the advantage. Needs to be verified in the first reviews. I think this will be the deciding factor for me. The one that better handles my chosen papers will be the winner for me.

4. Ink cost

The P800 has the advantage. I think this is a very subjective decision, however. At this point the difference in ink cost due to lower ml P900 ink cartridges with higher per 1ml price is not a deal breaker for me.

So far I am more inclined to the P900 with my greatest concern being the fact that P900 is still unknown. As @unesco said "Might be a breakthrough or a disaster." Will now wait for the first reviews of the P900 to be published.

[mearussi]

Since you're getting an Epson, have you considered the P5000 as it will certainly handle heavy papers.

[gkroeger]

In one of the Epson (UK) videos on Youtube, Epson suggests that paper over 300 GSM be front loaded... although front loading looks improved over the P800

Glenn

[Eric Brody]

Aside from the fact that the P900 is currently being made of unobtanium, the choice is between the known, P800, which is based on the 3880, Epson's most reliable printer EVER, and the almost totally unknown (aside from inferences from the P700-reviewed by Keith Cooper), as well as being currently unavailable, as I already said. I have a 3880; if it died, (I'd be in serious mourning) I'd look seriously at the P5000. P800's are rather difficult to find right now in the US. I was initially quite excited (is that the right word to use for a photo printer?) about the P900 but the too small inks and the fact that it's unlikely to work with QTR anytime soon, have turned me off. Even in these COVID days, the P900 will likely appear, someday, and then we can start the evaluation process. Personally, I'd require a laudatory review from Mark Segal at PhotoPXL, goat (greatest of all time) of printer reviewers and/or Keith Cooper at Northlight before I spend real money.

Best of luck I'll be following this adventure, from the sidelines for now.

[pschefz]

Do you have to print now? Then the p900 is out....if you can wait (who knows how long at this point) then the p900 will be the better overall choice....
I ordered one and have been waiting for it....if i had the space i would get the 7570...probably the best and most economical choice in the long run....

[unesco]

Do you have to print now? Then the p900 is out....if you can wait (who knows how long at this point) then the p900 will be the better overall choice....
I ordered one and have been waiting for it....if i had the space i would get the 7570...probably the best and most economical choice in the long run....

that's why I am finally going to switch to P7500, since just got enough more space! :-)

[sbay]

Paper handling is horrible on the P800 for thicker stuff that needs to go through the front sheet feeder. Assuming they improved that even a tiny bit plus using both PK and MK papers would mean that the P900 is a no-brainer for me.

[budjames]

I've owned the P800 since it was released about 5 years ago. It's a workhorse and I have never had any issues with clogged heads for print feeding. I only use the fine art front feeder when printing 17" wide Epson Exhibition Fiber. All other papers, mostly Exhibition Fiber, Luster and Legacy Baryata 13" and smaller feed just fine through the normal paper feeder on top of the printer.

I have had a P900 on order from B&H Photo since it was announced in April. It is still on back order. My main reasons for the upgrade is the lossless black ink switching and black gloss overcoat feature. I'm looking forward to printing on matte papers occasionally which I currently avoid with my P800.

Regards,
Bud James

Please check out my fine art and travel photography at www.budjames.photography or on Instagram at www.instagram.com/budjamesphoto.

[mshea]

I don't know about the P800's availability over there, but they're few and far between stateside. I had a hell of a time locating one here less than a month ago. Gotta say, I love mine (with the roll paper attachment).

You may be buying a P900 (sometime) by default.

Merrill

[budjames]

I have my P800 listed for sale in the classifieds in this forum.

Regards,
Bud James

Please check out my fine art and travel photography at www.budjames.photography or on Instagram at www.instagram.com/budjamesphoto.

[Tibor O]

Some feedback:

@mearussi: I have considered the P5000 but it is too big for my space. However, if Epson comes out with a P5100 with smaller footprint and no Pk/Mk switching I would be seriously interested in buying it.

@Eric Brody: 50ml inks are not a deal breaker for me. QTR is not important to me, I don't do B&W. I am eagerly awaiting Mark Segal's review too.

@pschefz: I can wait until January 2021, actually. I don't have the space for a P7570.

@sbay: yes, the paper handling will be the deciding factor for me,

@budjames, mshea, Eric Brody: The P800 is still available in Europe, I can get it from Germany in no time.