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Author Topic: Colour Management and Using Argyll CMS  (Read 1456 times)

danstart17

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Colour Management and Using Argyll CMS
« on: September 01, 2020, 12:59:52 pm »

Hi

I am determined to get better colours and so I am on the trail again.

I have calibrated my monitor using DisplayCal and the i1Pro 2 which seems to have worked nicely although I only get about 93% of sRGB colours but I can't help that with a 2015 Macbook Pro screen.

I am now trying to profile my printer.


I have printed out a test chart to limit the ink which is done through my rip. I need to limit the ink due to too much ink being laid down on certain colours and pooling. Can Argyll CMS read patches to help me limit the ink?

Basically I need to measure the chart from 100% and go down each block (which is 5% increments) so the Chromatic value is less than 1 from what I understand. i1Profiler did this but I can't find the cd to reinstall it and ideally I would like to keep everything within Argyll seeing as my monitor is calibrated this way.

Thanks
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Rhossydd

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Re: Colour Management and Using Argyll CMS
« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2020, 03:13:36 am »

I can't find the cd to reinstall it
Just download it from X-Rite again.
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Ethan Hansen

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Re: Colour Management and Using Argyll CMS
« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2020, 11:18:33 am »

I have printed out a test chart to limit the ink which is done through my rip. I need to limit the ink due to too much ink being laid down on certain colours and pooling. Can Argyll CMS read patches to help me limit the ink?

Yes. You first need to print and measure per-channel color gradients. If your RIP supports loading calibration curves, generate them using printcal and install them. Otherwise, you need to generate the calibration curves (printcal), apply them to the target used for profiling (prittarg), then store the curves into the profile you build with applycal.

danstart17

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Re: Colour Management and Using Argyll CMS
« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2020, 10:54:29 am »

Hi

I don't believe Roland Versaworks supports loading calibration curves and I don't get how to generate, apply them to the target and store them into the profile.

Can you walk me through that section please.

i1Profiler was a simple click a button and go route but I want to learn more than simply click a button

Thanks
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Ethan Hansen

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Re: Colour Management and Using Argyll CMS
« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2020, 05:57:20 pm »

It's been several years since I argued with Versaworks. You should be able to perform all ink limiting (per channel and total) within Versaworks. Argyll then is only used to build the profile - no worrying about cal curves. This dated video shows the process on a  Versaworks version only slightly older than what I last used.

danstart17

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Re: Colour Management and Using Argyll CMS
« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2020, 08:57:13 pm »

Hi

ok, I'll leave versaworks to look after the ink limit side, I'm pretty good with that side but stuck on the Argyll Side.

Can you help me out with a couple of questions.

From what I understand, when limiting the ink you want to look for the highest Chroma value which may be 80% and then keep going down so that the delta E value is less than 1.0 so you could end up on 70% but if theres a big jump in the delta value then you would stay where you are on 80%.

How do I read patches in ArgyllCMS to be able to find those values?

Once that is set, I understand I need to create a target file which I have done here:

targen -v -d2 -e8 -G -g64 -f1848 Gloss_vinyl

and then create the tiff files for printing using: One question I have here is Ink limit, do I set an ink limit here to match what I set in Versaworks i.e. 200%

printtarg -v -ii1 -h -R1 -M5 -m5 -T300 -p A4 Gloss_vinyl

Reading older posts and vaguely remembering i1Profiler, you measure the colours using m2, I don't even see an option to read the chart using that in Argyll?

This is the chart read command, something I've found on here but don't quite understand yet due to my issue above regarding m2.

chartread -v -H -T0.4 Gloss_vinyl

Now for these next commands I do not understand at all, I take it that Colprof creates the profile but what does AdobeRGB have anything to do with it?

colprof -v -qh -r1.0 -S AdobeRGB.icc -cmt -dpp -D"<description>" <name>

I'm guessing this will check between a file I've created and my new profile
profcheck -k <name.ti3> <name.icc>

Thanks

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danstart17

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Re: Colour Management and Using Argyll CMS
« Reply #6 on: September 05, 2020, 04:03:37 am »

Ok, so I have managed to create my first profile.

How do I check if its good or not without wasting media?

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HarveyM43

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Re: Colour Management and Using Argyll CMS
« Reply #7 on: September 05, 2020, 02:46:57 pm »

If you post (or PM) your .ti3 file this amateur will show you what I do...
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danstart17

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Re: Colour Management and Using Argyll CMS
« Reply #8 on: September 05, 2020, 04:08:08 pm »

Hi

Thank you, here it is.
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HarveyM43

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Re: Colour Management and Using Argyll CMS
« Reply #9 on: September 05, 2020, 05:16:30 pm »

Here’s your profile run through Argyll’s profcheck. Procheck simply feeds the patch values printed through the profile and compares that to the measured ones from a .ti3.
This is the command I used

profcheck -v2 -k -i D50 -o 1931_2 -w expert_target.ti3 expert_target.icc > expert_target.txt "expert_target_Profcheck"

I took the resulting text file and imported it into Apple numbers and sorted it based on delta E 2000.  The html file is a result of Profcheck’s -w input. It graphically describes the colour position between the ’should be’ colour and it’s true value as a line. Finally there’s Apple ColorSync gamut graph made by double clicking on the .icc (if you aren’t an Apple user you can use https://www.iccview.de   
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danstart17

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Re: Colour Management and Using Argyll CMS
« Reply #10 on: September 06, 2020, 03:01:09 am »

Hi I'm a mac user so Coloursync is fine.

Thank for the detailed output but I'm not actually sure what I am looking at, can you explain what everything means please.

Also why D50 and not D65?

Thanks
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HarveyM43

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Re: Colour Management and Using Argyll CMS
« Reply #11 on: September 06, 2020, 10:45:01 am »

Anders Torger has a tutorial that might help explain it-
https://torger.se/anders/photography/argyll-print.html

While the tutorial is for the Colormunki/ i1Studio it’s broadly applicable to your i1Pro.
My choice of D50 is arbitary, it’s what I use  when making my profiles, but it doesn’t make a difference for the results here (I checked both); D50 is defined as morning/evening sunlight (Horizon daylight) as compared to D65’s noonday sun. D50 is a closer match to fluorescent lighting (according to wikipedia) and LED than D65.
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danstart17

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Re: Colour Management and Using Argyll CMS
« Reply #12 on: September 07, 2020, 11:29:14 am »

Hi

I've followed that guide but I am getting errors when I check the profile using profcheck.

How do I create that table like you did?

I tried saving a text file using:

profcheck -k -v2 CMYK_ink_limited_d50_v3.ti3 CMYK_ink_limited_d50_v3.icc > CMYK_ink_limited_d50_v3.txt “CMYK_ink_limited_d50_v3_Profcheck”

and importing it into Excel using delimited > space > Finish

Mine doesn't generate like yours, see image.

I'm starting to think my printer can't be profiled correctly.
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danstart17

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Re: Colour Management and Using Argyll CMS
« Reply #13 on: September 07, 2020, 12:55:20 pm »

How is this possible?

Here's my Argyll Commands

* targen -v -d4 -l200 -G-e8 -g128 -f420 CMYK_ink_limited_d50_v3
* printtarg -v -ii1 -L -R1 -b -t720 -m3 -M3 -pA4 CMYK_ink_limited_d50_v3
* chartread -v CMYK_ink_limited_d50_v3
* colprof -v -qh -S AdobeRGB1998.icc -cmt -dpp -DPROFILE_NAME CMYK_ink_limited_d50_v3
* profcheck -k -v2 CMYK_ink_limited_d50_v3.ti3 CMYK_ink_limited_d50_v3.icc | sort
* spotread -v

When I check the profile using the above command I get line and line of errors, so I decided to re-read a certain patch in this case A1.

Here are the results from that patch using the spotread command above:

Result is XYZ: 1.916894 2.645760 2.925977, D50 Lab: 18.565392 -13.538479 -6.117640

But here are the results from the Profcheck command above:

[1.129805] 169 @ A1: 0.59215690 0.20000000 0.50588240 0.70588240 -> 19.287093 -13.207616 -5.164996 should be 18.213207 -14.283743 -5.745160

Why doesn't this match?
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HarveyM43

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Re: Colour Management and Using Argyll CMS
« Reply #14 on: September 07, 2020, 02:47:36 pm »



How do I create that table like you did?





I used numbers. My import is the same, but I remove the square brackets (find & replace with nothing) and format the column as numbers.
Then I sort the values descending.

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HarveyM43

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Re: Colour Management and Using Argyll CMS
« Reply #15 on: September 07, 2020, 03:14:53 pm »

How is this possible?


Here are the results from that patch using the spotread command above:

Result is XYZ: 1.916894 2.645760 2.925977, D50 Lab: 18.565392 -13.538479 -6.117640

But here are the results from the Profcheck command above:

[1.129805] 169 @ A1: 0.59215690 0.20000000 0.50588240 0.70588240 -> 19.287093 -13.207616 -5.164996 should be 18.213207 -14.283743 -5.745160

Why doesn't this match?

If I'm reading it correctly you're 1.03 dE94 actual out between the two readings and 0.70 out from the 'should be'
According to X-rite the inter-instrument repeatability is 1.0 dE94 max error  for your i1Pro.
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danstart17

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Re: Colour Management and Using Argyll CMS
« Reply #16 on: September 07, 2020, 05:57:58 pm »

Is that good then?
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danstart17

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Re: Colour Management and Using Argyll CMS
« Reply #17 on: September 08, 2020, 05:55:18 am »

I created another profile this morning stripping out pretty much everything from my commands and came up with this.

• targen -v -d4 -G profile_v2
• printtarg -v -ii1 -t720 -pA4 profile_v2
• chartread -v profile_v2
• colprof -v -qh -o 1931_2 -S AdobeRGB1998.icc -Zr -cmt -dpp -DPROFILE_NAME profile_v2
• profcheck -k -v2  profile_v2.ti3  profile_v2.icc >  profile_v2.txt “ profile_v2_Profcheck”

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1em-3qJ1S2kwtUIeCUYYm9ibx3Z_QaFzq/view?usp=sharing

I've saved the above compressed file as Profile_v3 as I already had another zipped folder called Profile_v2 already in the drive. I also added the .txt file to Numbers and used your graph although I don't really understand it.
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HarveyM43

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Re: Colour Management and Using Argyll CMS
« Reply #18 on: September 08, 2020, 09:23:22 am »

You should probably reread Torger's tutorial to get an idea of what results he got for various patch sets/ profiles and what dE (change Error) means. If  you don't get dE validating a profile is like trying to build a house without knowing how to use a tape measure.   
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