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Author Topic: Best Buy in Wide Format Printers Right Now  (Read 2158 times)

Brad P

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Best Buy in Wide Format Printers Right Now
« on: July 22, 2020, 12:36:13 am »

Three wide format printer manufacturers are in the mix in this forum: Canon, Epson and HP. 

If you had to buy a 44” or so printer, what model would you buy?
« Last Edit: July 22, 2020, 03:40:14 am by Brad P »
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PeterAit

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Re: Best Buy in Wide Format Printers Right Now
« Reply #1 on: July 22, 2020, 08:59:02 am »

I recommend the Epson. Not because of any experience with the other brands, but because of my excellent experiences with several Epsons over many years. First a 4880 that I used for 6 years and now a 7900 for 7 years, both of which had no problems besides occasional minor clogs that could be fixed with a standard cleaning cycle. Stunning prints too!
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felix5616

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Re: Best Buy in Wide Format Printers Right Now
« Reply #2 on: July 22, 2020, 12:06:59 pm »

HP. I've had 3 HP printers, a Z3100 and 2 Z3200's, one of which i recently purchased. The built in spectrophotometer is amazing and the B+W output is great. The new HP Z9 is much faster than the Z3200. I have had mine sit unused for a year, never a single clog and the print heads last a long time and are reasonably priced and user installable.
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deanwork

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Re: Best Buy in Wide Format Printers Right Now
« Reply #3 on: July 22, 2020, 03:28:08 pm »

I’ve had seven Epson large format printers and several desktop units within the last 20 years, 2 Hp Z printers, and one 44 inch Canon .

The Canon have in the past been  by far the most trouble free by a big margin foe me, followed by the HPs which have been excellent and one of them I’m still using after 12 years. The onboard spectro On the Zs is a big deal And totally trouble free which surprised me. The Hp printheads are very inexpensive and user replaceable and they last a long time. Now the same head works for all the channels which is very cool. The most recent series Epsons look impressive to me IF the print heads last longer than the previous series and you keep them in warranty.

The new Canon 4000 Lucia Pro Inks are the least permanent, 1/3 less the longevity of the new Epsons. But I see very few complaints about anything regarding them ( except for bw) and they seem to be very trouble free and fast. You replace the head yourself in 10 minutes every year and a half to two years at about $500.00. In other words, when the head needs replacing you don’t have to debate whether to replace the whole printer. If you really care about black and white I think you might have no choice but to go with HP or Epson, at least that’s what I’m hearing. I don’t have a Canon 4000. It doesn’t look like they are going to update their software.

It looks like the new Hps still have some software issues to be dealt with by them, such as the gloss enhancer not covering adequately on fiber gloss media, and the new spectro is set up for only 400 patches. They need to update that situation, maybe with firmware, to at least 1200 patch targets. If they fixed those two things I would go with the Z9. Otherwise I’d go with an Epson now that I’ve heard about the poor bw performance on the Canon.
But if bw and longevity less of a consideration the Canon is a very nice system.

I also will agree that all the Z printers have the best bw output on all media and automatically linearized as well as the auto rgb icc profiles. The fact that you linearize the media in a separate step from the icc profile is a wonderful feature and you don’t need any extra profiling software to do it. You can produce great neutral bw with no color inks at all on the Z3200 and I believe the Z9 is similar. Having said that, the new Epsons with the blacker blacks and the black density overcoat, auto black switching, and much improved linearity and neutrality of the ABW mode is a big improvement over the 9900 series. You have to use more color inks for neutral work, but they still work very well and have very good longevity.

The new Epsons have probably the best color gamut ( followed closely by Canon) and much better permanence than the new Canon inks, basically what the older Canon inks had.

 For black and white with QTR or Studio Print software, and their much improved ABW mode, Epsons will be more subtle than the Canon by far, because you can’t use True Black and White software anymore on the new Canons.

If you print everyday the Epsons might work very well for you provided you budget to keep them in warranty. All it takes is loosing one single color channel and that’s $2,000.00 US $ for a head replacement. There are lots of
posts on this site with people describing their experiences with all of these.

John

HP. I've had 3 HP printers, a Z3100 and 2 Z3200's, one of which i recently purchased. The built in spectrophotometer is amazing and the B+W output is great. The new HP Z9 is much faster than the Z3200. I have had mine sit unused for a year, never a single clog and the print heads last a long time and are reasonably priced and user installable.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2020, 09:22:11 am by deanwork »
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Brad P

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Re: Best Buy in Wide Format Printers Right Now
« Reply #4 on: July 22, 2020, 05:53:06 pm »

Thanks a lot for your thoughts John.  You hit on all the big points and it’s great to receive the benefit of your experience with all three.   I’ve just about ruled out Epson for the reasons you mentioned. Plus since it’s for personal use, I will often go weeks without printing, and I’ve heard Epsons don’t like that.   

The built in spectro might tip me towards the Z9, but it’s worthless to me with only 400 patches.   I’d buy a spectro or send out for profiles.  If we saw a real commitment by HP to do 1700 or more patches that might help but I’ve only seen speculation and the possibility mentioned. 

Also having a Z3200 now I’ve not been overly impressed with the software ease of use and wonder if that would follow on in different ways to the Z9.  The Z3200 is not terrible and quite capable ultimately, but I wouldn’t call it intuitively plug and play.  Is the Canon about the same or maybe a bit better on that score? 

Gamut is one consideration, ink permanence another and different choices might be made on that scale.  Four times less permanence is a big cost, but not out of question.  If you or others have experience you can share on that I’d be grateful. 

Last, I’ve read stories about HP scaling back in printers recently and wonder about long term commitment and support for fine art printers, although those thoughts have been around a while and things have carried on acceptably in my experience with, for example, third party part venders and their support. 
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deanwork

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Re: Best Buy in Wide Format Printers Right Now
« Reply #5 on: July 22, 2020, 09:07:26 pm »

I’m not sure what problems you have with Z3200 drivers but my set up on the Mac and pc both are very straightforward. Their website certainly is a joke though. Sometimes it’s a matter of  finding the right firmware version. I haven’t had any issues with calibration at all. The new Z9 calibration process is much faster And the overall speed is in another world . As to the 400 patches, this is with the new dual drop tech that is much more efficient in droplet performance than the Z3200 inks and comes very close to the 1750 patch set on the z3200.

I was totally a skeptic about the dual drop thing and removing all the light inks, especially the light gray, until I saw the results of prints from my files that someone did for me. The profiles were not bad at all with color and excellent with bw, go figure. I’d like more though as I’m using 6,000 patches on my 3200 now and I think with that tech we should be able to create our own patch set which we currently can’t on the Z9.  That could be incredible with the Z9 inks. One thing that you can’t do either is adjust the ink limits with the previous custom density slider. The color center custom setting have been dumbed down. That’s a big drawback with some of the unusual media I use and could contribute to the gloss enhancer limitations.

I totally agree with you, at this stage we should just be plugging these these things in and printing immediately, not screwing around with software updates and trying to figure out paper thickness settings and ink limit issues.

I’m more concerned about the functioning of the gloss enhancer on Baryta type papers with the Z9. More than half of the work I do is on Platine and it has to be sprayed with a uv solvent spray to look good and that ain’t good. All of these things need to be fixed before I’ll buy one. Hp is the biggest global inkjet printer company with a giant r&d budget and great engineers,but really these “fine art” pigment  offerings are almost insignificant distractions in their corporation, that specializes in Latex and eco solvent  signage systems.

Although Epson has a lot more piezo pigment printers out there and probably always will, their preoccupation and profits come from the big signage systems as well.

During this current global situation, and where things stand now, it’s almost the worst time for expecting things to change, but as far as prices it’s probably a good time. 

Seems like both Epson and HP have had glitchy things going on with software lately and Canon is solid in that respect, and fast ...but their back tracking in permanence pisses me off, and like I said you would need to research how the Black and White Canon software is working out. For some people bw is a minor consideration, and for other of us it’s a very big deal.

I’m glad I don’t have to buy anything right now.

Good luck,

John


Thanks a lot for your thoughts John.  You hit on all the big points and it’s great to receive the benefit of your experience with all three.   I’ve just about ruled out Epson for the reasons you mentioned. Plus since it’s for personal use, I will often go weeks without printing, and I’ve heard Epsons don’t like that.   

The built in spectro might tip me towards the Z9, but it’s worthless to me with only 400 patches.   I’d buy a spectro or send out for profiles.  If we saw a real commitment by HP to do 1700 or more patches that might help but I’ve only seen speculation and the possibility mentioned. 

Also having a Z3200 now I’ve not been overly impressed with the software ease of use and wonder if that would follow on in different ways to the Z9.  The Z3200 is not terrible and quite capable ultimately, but I wouldn’t call it intuitively plug and play.  Is the Canon about the same or maybe a bit better on that score? 

Gamut is one consideration, ink permanence another and different choices might be made on that scale.  Four times less permanence is a big cost, but not out of question.  If you or others have experience you can share on that I’d be grateful. 

Last, I’ve read stories about HP scaling back in printers recently and wonder about long term commitment and support for fine art printers, although those thoughts have been around a while and things have carried on acceptably in my experience with, for example, third party part venders and their support.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2020, 09:05:23 am by deanwork »
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enduser

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Re: Best Buy in Wide Format Printers Right Now
« Reply #6 on: July 22, 2020, 09:45:33 pm »

My experience with 2 HP wide formats and one Canon: With us it's the day to day costs. I always had trouble finding the money for a single (or one of the two) Canon head. Apart from that it was a joy to use. When not printing it would wake up and agitate the ink and at other times it would wake up and the small screen would say "Checking humidity"  This level of self-care was very comforting.The head (heads) were very easy to change.

The HPs are my "Go to" printers now. New head costs are easier because: 1- If a channel goes out only one of five print heads needs changing and all five heads are the same, and 2- they are a $100 item only The main point is the longevity of HP pigment inks. Ardenburg rates them the longest. I see it this way: in the end  after buying a printer, making an image, framing and hanging you're left looking at the inks. Why wouldn't you want the ones that last longest?
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Stephen Ray

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Re: Best Buy in Wide Format Printers Right Now
« Reply #7 on: July 23, 2020, 03:05:36 am »

Epson SureColor S80600 Printer.
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Paul_Roark

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Re: Best Buy in Wide Format Printers Right Now
« Reply #8 on: July 24, 2020, 07:19:55 pm »

I stay with Epson so that I can use dedicated black and white inksets.  The piezo head is much more tolerant of ink variations than the thermal heads.

Paul
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kers

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Re: Best Buy in Wide Format Printers Right Now
« Reply #9 on: July 24, 2020, 08:48:19 pm »

I stay with Epson so that I can use dedicated black and white inksets.  The piezo head is much more tolerant of ink variations than the thermal heads.

Paul
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yes, but why then do they clog more often than the thermal heads, even with the ink that is made especially for them?
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Pieter Kers
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Paul_Roark

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Re: Best Buy in Wide Format Printers Right Now
« Reply #10 on: July 25, 2020, 12:37:59 am »

yes, but why then do they clog more often than the thermal heads, even with the ink that is made especially for them?

I don't have the data to know which printers clog the most or least.  My wide format 7800 and 9800 have the dedicated B&W inks in them and are not used frequently.  I often have to run a cleaning cycle to get them ready to print when I do use them.  My P600 with OEM inks in it never has clogged.

Paul
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Brad P

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Re: Best Buy in Wide Format Printers Right Now
« Reply #11 on: July 25, 2020, 02:47:33 am »

Thanks for all thoughts. I’ve just got my 8 yr Z3200 up and running again according to the diagnostics and working on a highest quality print. Took about $400 in replacement parts and at least $2000 of my time.  See how it goes.  Personally I’m sure it’s on it’s last legs.

I do appreciate HP’s immediate support on inks and printheads, even now.  And their recycling pre printed packaging. Good on them. 
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kers

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Re: Best Buy in Wide Format Printers Right Now
« Reply #12 on: July 25, 2020, 05:02:19 am »

Good to hear; did you change the belt?

I have hust completed that on my old z3100 and put some new heads in it.
As i know the printer by now, i think it will last another 5 years at least.
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Czornyj

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Re: Best Buy in Wide Format Printers Right Now
« Reply #13 on: July 25, 2020, 07:17:04 am »

yes, but why then do they clog more often than the thermal heads, even with the ink that is made especially for them?

Piezo nozzle chamber is several dozen times larger than thermal nozzle, so there's a lot of room for air bubbles to gather, which lower the ink preassure and is main reason of clogging. Furthermore, thermal nozzle produces much more pressure than piezo nozzle, and thanks to it compact size each nozzle have spare nozzle, so if a missing nozzle is detected it is replaced by its spare nozzle in next carriage run.
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Marcin Kałuża | [URL=http://zarzadzaniebarwa

Czornyj

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Re: Best Buy in Wide Format Printers Right Now
« Reply #14 on: July 25, 2020, 07:25:59 am »

The Canon has by far been the most trouble free by a big margin, followed by the HPs which have been excellent and one of them I’m still using after 12 years. The onboard spectro On the Zs is a big deal And totally trouble free which surprised me. The Hp printheads are very inexpensive and user replaceable and they last a long time.

The new Canon 4000 Lucia Pro Inks are the least permanent, 1/3 the longevity of the new Epsons. But I see very few complaints about anything regarding them and they seem to be very trouble free and fast. You replace the head yourself in 10 minutes every year and a half to two years at about $500.00. In other words, when the head needs replacing you don’t have to debate whether to replace the whole printer. If you really care about black and white I think you might have no choice but to go with HP or Epson, at least that’s what I’m hearing. I don’t have a Canon 4000. It doesn’t look like they are going to update their software.

At the beginning of production there were some quality issues with Canon PF-10 print heads, so they died each year or two years. Now they have noticeably improved reliability, and my second PF-10 prints flawlessly since the repleacement for almost 3 years. The record-holder PF-10 at my friends printing shop shed over 30 liters of ink.
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soboyle

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Re: Best Buy in Wide Format Printers Right Now
« Reply #15 on: July 30, 2020, 03:14:03 pm »

Following this post with interest as I'm in the market for a 24" printer, either Epson or Canon. Have been considering the Canon Pro 2100 with the current rebates, and their apparently better track record with print heads. Size fits better with my limited space. The ink longevity is a consideration, and that has me hesitating on the Canon.

mearussi

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Re: Best Buy in Wide Format Printers Right Now
« Reply #16 on: July 30, 2020, 04:29:17 pm »

Following this post with interest as I'm in the market for a 24" printer, either Epson or Canon. Have been considering the Canon Pro 2100 with the current rebates, and their apparently better track record with print heads. Size fits better with my limited space. The ink longevity is a consideration, and that has me hesitating on the Canon.
If I had the money I'd buy the Epson with the three extended warranty.
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soboyle

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Re: Best Buy in Wide Format Printers Right Now
« Reply #17 on: July 31, 2020, 08:39:56 am »

The HP's are very interesting with the built in profiling and the inexpensive owner replaceable print heads. We us the Designjets at work daily for CAD work and they are very reliable. Mark Lindquist's video intro to the Z9+ 24" (linked in a different thread) has me considering the HP's.

Paul_Roark

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Re: Best Buy in Wide Format Printers Right Now
« Reply #18 on: July 31, 2020, 01:58:58 pm »

The HP's are very interesting ...

If I was not into ink mixing and saving money, and if I did not need a "carbon-sepia" tone for some local museum printing, I'd be seriously interested in HP's offerings.  In testing and analysis of such by both myself and others, the HP neutrals were the only "neutral" core that could make a good black and white print without the addition of color inks.  They also aged with the lowest color shifting; HP did an exceptional job of stopping color shifting while aging/fading.  (Note that I have not tested Epson's latest color pigments.)

Paul
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JeffSD

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Re: Best Buy in Wide Format Printers Right Now
« Reply #19 on: July 31, 2020, 04:31:24 pm »

When my HP Z3200ps is ready to be put out to pasture (hopefully, a long time from now) I'll be inclined to get another HP.

The Vivera inks on the Hahnemühle papers I use make nice prints with very good light fade test results. And ink consumption, at least in my experience, has been been very efficient. 

As mentioned above, the built in spectrophotometer is a great feature.

The ability to easily swap-out clogged heads is a definite plus.

On the negative side, the HP user interface is a bit "retro." Hopefully, that's improved with the new Z's. Also, I've never found HP's customer support to be very ... supportive. It's almost like they make these great products and send them out into the world to survive on their own wits.  ;D 

I am intrigued by the possibility of using dedicated monochrome ink sets with the Epsons.
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