HP Z9 + problems / exchange of experience

[Gerd_Peters]

Hello everybody,

I have some serious problems with the HP Z9 + 44 "and hope to exchange experiences with other owners.

OMS profiles / paper thicknesses - carriage position cannot be adjusted:
I am currently unable to set paper thicknesses in the HP Utility. When creating a paper preset, I can set thick, but after loading the paper and the paper calibration, the paper preset is back to normal. This is also not a display error. For papers larger than ~ 280g the HP Z9 has head contact - depending on the paper type.

Manufacturers OMS files are also not a solution. I can successfully upload a manufacturer's OMS file (displayed as successful on the PC and printer), but the preset never appears in the printer for selection. I also checked whether the currently selected OMS profile might be overwritten and just not being shown to me. This is also not the case.
I have open tickets at HP Support and the errors have been confirmed but there is currently no solution. The printer is under maintenance and the hardware has also been checked on site - hardware is OK.

I am working on Windows 10 Version Ver. 1909 build 18363.959. HP Firmware JGR9_06_19_41.2.rfu.fmw, HP Utility 6.0.9.4660

I also got a newer beta firmware from HP, but it only solved the problem that the star wheels could not be adjusted. All other problems remained.

My question to the HP Z9 owners how do you create paper profiles for strong papers? Can you use the HP Utility for MAC paper profiles with the type thick? then load and calibrate the paper and call up the properties again in the HP Utility - does it still say "thick" as paper strength or did it jump back to normal as in Windows?



Uploading ICC profiles to the printer is not possible:
I cannot upload an ICC profile into the printer. A similar behavior as with OMS profiles. Select the ICC name / profile that you want to replace with your own ICC profile and then upload the ICC file. The printer reports that it was successful, but the profile does not exist under the selected name. If I export the profile again to check it, it is only the default profile of the HP Z9. This is not a broken leg because I rarely use ICC profiles directly in the printer, but it is still another mistake.

Has another HP Z9 owner ever tried to load and use their own ICC profiles in the printer?


440 patch fields self-calibration / linearization:
The own calibration / linearization in the size of ~ 440 patch fields does not meet my personal requirements. The results have not satisfied me. I therefore use the ColorGate Production Server 10 software with Profiler modules. This is a software that we already have in operation (the manufacturer in Germany and not far from us), we have only added the HP Z9 device driver. So I can control the HP Z9 without errors to measure. Using a patch field generator, I create a target (e.g. 3000 and 5000 patch fields). Print this target and then let the HP Z9 measure it automatically. After the measurement, I can then automatically find measurement errors, check them and correct them if necessary (exclude). The whole thing works fully automatically in about 1:45 hours with the HP Z9 - print and measure. This is really a positive thing.


The current situation is not easy for me. The printer is here, it costs money and I can't do the job. I hope for feedback from other HP Z9 users in order to be able to identify problems faster and to remedy them.

Thank you in advance to everyone who can provide further information.

Greetings Gerd

[Gerd_Peters]

At the request of @Soboyle and Mark @MHMG from the LL contribution LINK, I will go into more detail about my previous problems with the Z9 + 44 ".

The HPZ9 + 44 "was delivered with the firmware JGR9_06_19_41.2.rfu.fmw. This is also the current firmware - both in Europe and in the USA. The firmware is from 11 Nov. 2019 and has a size of 1.6 GB current HP Utility has the version 6.0.9.4660 and is from 4 Jun 2020.

Own paper profile problem:
1. Own paper profile created with the setting stark (stark means heavy). Hahnemühle PhotoRag Pearl mehr Tinte (more ink) 320g


2. After loading the roll, selecting your own paper profile and density measurement, the profile is back to "normal"


When printing, there is head contact.



Manufacturer paper profile problem:
1. Upload manufacturer OMS File via HP-WEB Access


2. Confirmation from the printer


3. Confirmation by the web tool


The paper profile does not appear in any selection (the current one is not overwritten either) and can therefore not be used. So no solution to get the desired paper thickness.


Star wheel problem:
In the official firmware (JGR9_06_19_41.2.rfu.fmw) the position of the star wheel is not adjusted - regardless of what you set in the profile.
If you want to test the star wheel position in service mode, the test fails completely.


HP has provided me with a beta firmware JGR9_06_20_06.1.rfu.fmw. With this firmware, the star wheel position can be easily adjusted.
Here is the test in service mode for the star wheel position.


All other problems remain.

Firmware errors:
The HPZ9 + often has firmware errors. System errors are usually often unspecific and not documented. They depend on the respective firmware. There are notes in the service manual, but there are no precise ones.
Here are a few examples.




The errors usually occur with the HP Utiliy. So when I read and write access to the printer.
It looks like this on the computer:


My impression is that the firmware / software is not ready or was partly taken from the Z3200. If you e.g. a default ICC profile (not yet profiled) exported from the HPZ9 + and then looking at the TAG targ/text in the profile you will find that this has 864 patch fields and not 464 patch fields as after profiling.

Greetings Gerd

[vinz]

I'm still on JGR9_06_20_06.1 beta firmware on my Z9 for more than 6 months.

Hopefully the beta resolved the starwheels issue.

Same bugs as Gerd Peters, no way to have a thick paper setting, but no head strikes for me on Photo Rag 308.

Is there any news for a new firmware from HP ? New calibration targets with more patchs ?

This printer is IMHO really good hardware, but the lack of software development is really a shame. I need to make money with this printer, not to loose time being a beta tester.

[Gerd_Peters]

Concerning beta firmware I had available on this topic:

The Beta JGR9_06_20_06.1 controls the star wheel position - but nothing else. The scale height (thick paper setting) cannot be changed. The Beta JGR9_07_20_36.10 now shows in the software the settings you have made for the paper thickness. BUT - only in the software. The scale height at the printer is not changed. Why the Beta is completely useless.

I have run all internal services tests with different firmwares several times to make sure that my HPZ9 + 44" has no hardware errors which could have been another reason for the problems.

Two bugs have turned out to be permanent.

0065-04 Check Scan Motor



The scan motor was replaced by an HP technician - but without affecting the error. The distance error is greatest when HP paper is loaded with a 1" core roll with very little paper left. Or a full heavy 3" core roll with 15m 300g + paper. This error affects the paper feed/paper position.



0086-01 Check Carriage Electro
After the test could not find the SOL unit, the printer crashes completely.

0086-01-FAIL-short


0086-01-FAIL-long


But the SOL unit is on board.


I have repeated all the tests performed at the beginning of this article with Moave and Catalina. Unfortunately with the same result or rather another worse error has occurred. If I have created a paper with Moave/Catalina and the HP Utility, then this setting of Windows cannot be changed in the printer. The only way to get full access to the printer from Windows again - is to perform a printer factory reset.

Finally for me:

I had set HP a deadline for a complete repair (software/hardware). Unfortunately HP could not meet this deadline and I withdrew from the purchase contract. The printer has been picked up by HP as well. We are still waiting for a refund of the purchase amount. The communication with the support, the complaint management and the handling of the return were accurate until now. At this point, we have to say that in favor of HP.

We ordered a printer from another manufacturer as a replacement three weeks ago. Since it is also a new printer model, I hope that we don't get out of the frying pan into the fire.

Greeting Gerd

[deanwork]

Ugh,ugh,ughhhhhh

[vinz]

Sad you had to ask for a refund, so much precious time lost with this printer. I appreciate that you share with us your experience.

I've just seen on HP site for JGR9_07_20_34.1 firmware (which wasn't be proposed to me by HP update software...).

When I can find some time, I'll update printer and will do hardware tests to see if I've got the same errors that you had.

Positive point for me, my papers works great : Canson Baryta Photographique, Canson Photolustre Premium RC, Hahnemuehle Fine Art Baryta Satin and Photo Rag 308. (on normal thickness)

I just hope I could make profiles with more patches, especially to improve shadows precision and gamut.

[Gerd_Peters]

.......I've just seen on HP site for JGR9_07_20_34.1 firmware (which wasn't be proposed to me by HP update software...).

When I can find some time, I'll update printer and will do hardware tests to see if I've got the same errors that you had.....

The service test errors have been confirmed by HP Support, who were able to reproduce exactly the same errors. However, they were of the opinion that this was due to the beta firmware. They overlooked the fact that I had explained to them that these errors are reproducible with the official firmware. In any case, they decided not to replace the printer completely because they themselves had these errors in their test devices.

My last beta firmware (JGR9_07_20_36.10.rfu) included a new HP Utility 6.1.13.4760. They don't seem to have released that yet.
I also don't know exactly which printer you have? As far as I know, the HP Z9+ 24", the Z9+ 44" and the Z9+ 44" DR behave differently. I had the 44" model and would not assume for sure that the other two models have the same faults.

......I just hope I could make profiles with more patches, especially to improve shadows precision and gamut.

I do not think they will change that. I have asked about this several times and was told that HP has decided to leave this to their software partners. Furthermore, the HPZ9+ has only one older i1O head on board that can only measure M0 from 400nm to 730nm. This is basically ok for now. But there are some situations where I want to make a M1 or M2 measurement - in these cases the use of an additional measuring head is mandatory. Nevertheless it can be an enormous gain of time and comfort to have the measuring head in the printer.

I wish you good luck with your HPZ9+.


Greeting Gerd

[vinz]

I also don't know exactly which printer you have? As far as I know, the HP Z9+ 24", the Z9+ 44" and the Z9+ 44" DR behave differently. I had the 44" model and would not assume for sure that the other two models have the same faults.

I have the HP Z9+ 24''.

As my studio is forced to close due to coronavirus restrictions in France, I'll have some time to do tests with the printer...

[dseelig]

Does the Z9 act like the Z3200 near the end of the print roll my z 3200 needs to manually advance the paper otherwise will not send paper through and as this does not cancel I waste ink and ger ink in my printer. Does the Z9 act like this?

[Gerd_Peters]

I didn't get to the end of a role, as you can read in the post above. I can't tell you much about that. But currently the HPZ9 + still has a lot of problems in the software and maybe also in the hardware. In my personal experience, it is not a good idea to use the HPZ9 + until HP has definitely resolved all problems. Maybe except you only print thin RC papers.

Parts of HP's development are based in Barcelona. Barcelona was hit very, very hard by the pandemic. I wouldn't hope for a very timely solution.

Greetings Gerd

[Kaz]

Anyone got any updates on this?

I just bought a roll of HP Removable Adhesive Fabric (with support for Z9 it says)

and my Z9 refuses to install ANY OMS files.

And now it will not sync paper presets OR create new paper presets from Utility any longer. It seems like ALL menu's related to paper management have "crashed" giving the error "Printer not ready: The process cannot proceed"

I'm running latest JGR9_07_20_34.1 firmware.

I have not been lucky with my Z9. I should just have returned it when I had the chance (I got a DOA Z9)

[Gerd_Peters]

If you can't upload OMS files, 90% of the time it's because the creator didn't have a gloss enhancer - or vice versa.

HP does not give a corresponding error message or a hint. The manufacturers of materials that issue OMS files also do not write on which Z9+ version they were created. I assume that you were/are not aware of the problem.

I reported this error to HP support a year ago and it was confirmed by HP.

The condition that I could no longer make paper changes, I have also achieved. I worked primarily on Windows and then because of the persistent problems I created a virtual MAC/OS machine - for testing. After writing with the slightly different HP utility version from the MAC, I then had a state that no more changes could be made.

The only thing that helped was a factory reset of the HP Z9+. After that I had to set up the printer again, but I could make changes again.

My beta firmware from last year is newer than your firmware. Are you sure it is the latest firmware? (I did not search for it at HP).

Greetings Gerd

[deanwork]

Gerd,

Are you able to make internal profiles with greater than 400 patches now?

I assume one could use X-Rite equipment and upload those profiles ?

Have you seen any improvement in the gloss enhancer function on fiber gloss media?

And for you, has tech support for software issues improved ?

John

If you can't upload OMS files, 90% of the time it's because the creator didn't have a gloss enhancer - or vice versa.

HP does not give a corresponding error message or a hint. The manufacturers of materials that issue OMS files also do not write on which Z9+ version they were created. I assume that you were/are not aware of the problem.

I reported this error to HP support a year ago and it was confirmed by HP.

The condition that I could no longer make paper changes, I have also achieved. I worked primarily on Windows and then because of the persistent problems I created a virtual MAC/OS machine - for testing. After writing with the slightly different HP utility version from the MAC, I then had a state that no more changes could be made.

The only thing that helped was a factory reset of the HP Z9+. After that I had to set up the printer again, but I could make changes again.

My beta firmware from last year is newer than your firmware. Are you sure it is the latest firmware? (I did not search for it at HP).

Greetings Gerd

[Gerd_Peters]

Hello John,

I'm afraid I can't answer that for you. HP had to take my printer back at the end of last year after I gave them a deadline - which they could not meet.

I have now an Epson SC-P9500 and it does a very good job. The system has bugs too, but none that would affect most users. The Epson SDK has some bugs in NON HTM mode (MultiColor) but they are being fixed and some are already fixed. As long as you work in HTM RGB / CMYK mode, you will not come into contact with it at all.

Regarding 400 patches HP Z9+:
I don't think HP will change this. I have spoken several times with the development / 2end level support last year and always got a very clear answer. HP leaves the development to its partners. If you use a RIP from a partner (like me), then in the first step a linearization is made via the RIP and in the second step a patch target of your choice is printed. This means that the HP partner(s) do this in their own software - they have no interest in drilling down the neutered HP firmware. This is my personal opinion.

Greetings Gerd

[deanwork]

Thanks Gerd,

I’ve been in the market for a 44” since my Canon of 9 years is no longer supported and has issues I can’t resolve.

I’ve been sending the same files out to high-end printmakers for color and bw tests. So far the 9570 or P2000 wins hands down in every category of image quality. I was kind of shocked at how good the neutral monochrome is straight out of the recent ABW mode with my grayscale file.

That series had some real issues this past year, not the least of which was serious paper jamming with thick roll media that could damage the super expensive head, but it looks like everything is getting straightened out.

John

quote author=Gerd_Peters link=topic=135630.msg1212808#msg1212808 date=1616508460]
Hello John,

I'm afraid I can't answer that for you. HP had to take my printer back at the end of last year after I gave them a deadline - which they could not meet.

I now have an Epson SC-P9500 and it does a very good job. The system has bugs too, but none that would affect most users. The Epson SDK has some bugs in NON HTM mode (MultiColor) but they are being fixed and some are already fixed. As long as you work in HTM RGB / CMYK mode, you will not come into contact with it at all.

Regarding 400 patches HP Z9+:
I don't think HP will change this. I have spoken several times with the development / 2end level support last year and always got a very clear answer. HP leaves the development to its partners. If you use a RIP from a partner (like me), then in the first step a linearization is made via the RIP and in the second step a patch target of your choice is printed. This means that the HP partner(s) do this in their own software - they have no interest in drilling down the neutered HP firmware. This is my personal opinion.

Greetings Gerd
[/quote]

[Gerd_Peters]

I have only had two bad experiences with paper jams so far. These were heavier (~300g) short (12-15m) rolls of paper from mediaJet and Sihl where the end of the roll was not glued to the core. When loading and positioning the paper, the 9500 pulls the paper in, measures the edges and pushes it back up to measure the edges again in this position. If the roll core then spins empty (because it is not properly glued), the paper will not be rolled up and a jam will occur at the top of the cover.

All other papers I have used up to about 350g were without problems. However, the specifications of some manufacturers regarding the paper settings are nonsense. But you can see that immediately if you have a little experience with the Epson paper settings.

I don't print on canvas and can't give any information about that.


Greetings Gerd

[deanwork]

Oh, I see. Yea a media distributor told me there were rampant problems with Hahnemuhle thick rolls, something about the tape and that Hah. was very much aware of that. I guess it was paper pulling off the core, but they also said it could happen in the middle of a roll. That’s a solvable situation and wouldn’t keep me away from them. I do think because of that complex head design, they should be kept in warranty for as long as possible, which I believe is 5 years now.

I have only had two bad experiences with paper jams so far. These were heavier (~300g) short (12-15m) rolls of paper from mediaJet and Sihl where the end of the roll was not glued to the core. When loading and positioning the paper, the 9500 pulls the paper in, measures the edges and pushes it back up to measure the edges again in this position. If the roll core then spins empty (because it is not properly glued), the paper will not be rolled up and a jam will occur at the top of the cover.

All other papers I have used up to about 350g were without problems. However, the specifications of some manufacturers regarding the paper settings are nonsense. But you can see that immediately if you have a little experience with the Epson paper settings.

I don't print on canvas and can't give any information about that.


Greetings Gerd

[Gerd_Peters]

.....which I believe is 5 years now.

that is exactly what I have completed... 

Greeting Gerd

[Kaz]

If you can't upload OMS files, 90% of the time it's because the creator didn't have a gloss enhancer - or vice versa.

HP does not give a corresponding error message or a hint. The manufacturers of materials that issue OMS files also do not write on which Z9+ version they were created. I assume that you were/are not aware of the problem.

I reported this error to HP support a year ago and it was confirmed by HP.

The condition that I could no longer make paper changes, I have also achieved. I worked primarily on Windows and then because of the persistent problems I created a virtual MAC/OS machine - for testing. After writing with the slightly different HP utility version from the MAC, I then had a state that no more changes could be made.

The only thing that helped was a factory reset of the HP Z9+. After that I had to set up the printer again, but I could make changes again.

My beta firmware from last year is newer than your firmware. Are you sure it is the latest firmware? (I did not search for it at HP).

Greetings Gerd

Hi Gerd,

thanks for the feedback. And my firmware IS the latest official firmware.

I have just done a factory reset - but if HP cant get their own OMS files FOR the Z9 to load on my printer - I'm handing a job over to my legal (lethal) team to deal with HP. 

What a piece of c**p and completely lacking level of support. Leaving such a serious bug in a printer for > 12 months is unforgivable. I was through via phone support who was ? chatting? to level 2 support for every one of my questions. Complete waste of time.

HP have certainly declined a lot since my last Z3200 & 6000's .

Anyway - thanks again! At least I have documentation for the issue was there when the printer was in warranty - that will surely help my legal team - Do you have a case number you would / can share? That would help even more.. *G*

/k

[Gerd_Peters]

I have sent you a PM.

I wish you good luck.

Greetings Gerd