Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: A couple of beefs about modern cameras  (Read 668 times)

Robert Roaldi

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4768
    • Robert's Photos
A couple of beefs about modern cameras
« on: June 28, 2020, 01:38:33 pm »

This may end up more rant than feature request so I put it in this area of the forum. If it belongs somewhere else, I hope the moderators will move it. Maybe others will have some complaints to add to my first couple.

Modern cameras have computers on board that talk to the mounted lens. They do all kinds of things, focus-bracketing, on-board HDR, etc., so there is some substantial CPU horsepower there. On my Olympus bodies, I can even do keystone correction, among other things, that I would never have thought of to include in the feature list.

So how come I can't go to the menu and tell the camera to set the lens to infinity? It doesn't happen to me often, but now and then under the right lighting conditions with fuzzy distant objects, the camera has a difficult time focussing and I KNOW they are at infinity (or close enough). In the old manual days, you'd just rack the lens focus to the end stop. That's not often possible these days. There is a lot of other programming on board, why not this? And while I'm at it, why can't I set the focus to 23.5 metres, or 3.65 metres? It's not something anyone would use often, but there are a lot of things in the menus I never use.

As a corollary, why can't I type in a depth of field range, 3 to 6 metres say, and since the camera knows what lens is attached it should be able to set it to focus at 4.1 metres at f6.3 for me (or whatever, I made those up), and then let me worry about shutter speeds or tripods and the rest. Again, this is not something that would be used much, but there may be circumstances where it could be really handy for a specialized application. All the info and data is there, and there is enough CPU to do these calculations, why is it that in 2020 I need to carry DOF tables or a smartphone with an app that I need to look up?

I had a Canon Elan at one point and I seem to recall that it implemented a way to set the aperture to yield a desired DOF, but I can't remember how it worked.
Logged
--
Robert

Alan Klein

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15850
    • Flicker photos
Re: A couple of beefs about modern cameras
« Reply #1 on: June 28, 2020, 02:22:40 pm »

Rob, those are actually great ideas.  DOF and hyperfocal settings automatically would be great. 

Another one I thought would be easy is to set the image captured format to any photo paper size.  Right now they have 2:3, 1:1, 16:9, 4:3 which is traditional framing or matches TV's and monitors.  How about adding 5x7, 8x10, 8 1/2x11 etc to match photo print paper?

KLaban

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2451
    • Keith Laban Photography
Re: A couple of beefs about modern cameras
« Reply #2 on: June 28, 2020, 02:32:01 pm »

Aw shucks, you're making it all too easy-peasy and sucking all the fun out of it.

Peter McLennan

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4690
Re: A couple of beefs about modern cameras
« Reply #3 on: June 28, 2020, 02:33:50 pm »

I agree, Robert.  My phone is far smarter at imaging than my Nikon.
Logged

RSL

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 16046
    • http://www.russ-lewis.com
Re: A couple of beefs about modern cameras
« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2020, 03:05:04 pm »

I'd love to be able to buy a small still camera that's just a still camera. If you want movies, buy a movie camera. As far as the other gadgetry, it's no problem to do that stuff in post. I want control over aperture, shutter speed, and amplification (ISO). It's great to have those three things working together so that when you set aperture for depth of field, shutter speed and ISO fall into place, but there are times when you need independent control over all three, so the manual setting is essential. How often have you bumped the wrong spot on your camera and ended up with a mishmash? There should be a market for simplicity, but no way anymore.
Logged
Russ Lewis  www.russ-lewis.com.

Eric Myrvaagnes

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 22814
  • http://myrvaagnes.com
    • http://myrvaagnes.com
Re: A couple of beefs about modern cameras
« Reply #5 on: June 28, 2020, 04:59:50 pm »

I have lost many a decent shot because of just those limitations, alas.
Logged
-Eric Myrvaagnes (visit my website: http://myrvaagnes.com)

Frans Waterlander

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 874
Re: A couple of beefs about modern cameras
« Reply #6 on: June 28, 2020, 05:18:21 pm »

Why can't we look at in-camera RAW histograms?
Logged

hogloff

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1187
Re: A couple of beefs about modern cameras
« Reply #7 on: June 28, 2020, 06:27:37 pm »

I seem to get by just fine with my totally manual Fuji 6x9 and Tachihara 4x5. Too much automation takes the fun and skill out of photography for me. Now I do appreciate the AF and metering in my digital cameras...but I still shoot in manual mode and quite often manual focus.
Logged

Alan Klein

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15850
    • Flicker photos
Re: A couple of beefs about modern cameras
« Reply #8 on: June 28, 2020, 06:33:42 pm »

I seem to get by just fine with my totally manual Fuji 6x9 and Tachihara 4x5. Too much automation takes the fun and skill out of photography for me. Now I do appreciate the AF and metering in my digital cameras...but I still shoot in manual mode and quite often manual focus.
I'd like to see your work.  Do you have a Flickr or other site you post too?

Chris Kern

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2034
    • Chris Kern's Eponymous Website
Re: A couple of beefs about modern cameras
« Reply #9 on: June 28, 2020, 06:52:57 pm »

I want control over aperture, shutter speed, and amplification (ISO). It's great to have those three things working together so that when you set aperture for depth of field, shutter speed and ISO fall into place, but there are times when you need independent control over all three, so the manual setting is essential.

The main reason I migrated from full-frame Nikon to the crop-sensor Fuji X-T series was to reduce the bulk and weight of what I was carrying around, but a close second was the Fujis' analog-style manual controls.  Shutter speed and ISO dials sit on the top of the camera and are easy to find by feel while you're looking through the viewfinder.  There's also an exposure-compensation dial, if you are using auto-exposure, to tweak what the AE system thinks is correct.  Aperture is controlled by a ring that you move around the circumference of the lens: remarkable invention!  (I'm surprised no one ever thought of this before.)  The usual automation capabilities are available; you can turn the Fujis into point-and-shoot cameras, if you're so inclined.  But the ability to modify the settings as manually as you want, using controls that click into place as you watch the settings change in the electronic viewfinder, fits well with the way I like to shoot.

LesPalenik

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5339
    • advantica blog
Re: A couple of beefs about modern cameras
« Reply #10 on: June 28, 2020, 06:53:38 pm »

I seem to get by just fine with my totally manual Fuji 6x9 and Tachihara 4x5. Too much automation takes the fun and skill out of photography for me. Now I do appreciate the AF and metering in my digital cameras...but I still shoot in manual mode and quite often manual focus.

I remember also fondly my Fuji 6x9, as well as Fuji GX617. The latter one didn't have AF, nor a lightmeter, and I got only 8 shots per a 220 roll.
Logged

hogloff

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1187
Re: A couple of beefs about modern cameras
« Reply #11 on: June 28, 2020, 07:27:21 pm »

I'd like to see your work.  Do you have a Flickr or other site you post too?

Nope...haven't really jived with social media. My wife is all over it...get enough from her.
Logged

Paulo Bizarro

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7395
    • http://www.paulobizarro.com
Re: A couple of beefs about modern cameras
« Reply #12 on: June 29, 2020, 12:21:52 pm »

Yes, some older Canon EOS models had that program:

- focus on the closest point you want
- focus on the furthest point you want
- recompose and press the shutter, the camera would set the aperture

I think the Zeiss Batis lenses for Sony do some of what you wish, via the little window on top of them. You focus on a distance and reports the DOF.

James Clark

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2347
Re: A couple of beefs about modern cameras
« Reply #13 on: June 29, 2020, 02:37:23 pm »

The main reason I migrated from full-frame Nikon to the crop-sensor Fuji X-T series was to reduce the bulk and weight of what I was carrying around, but a close second was the Fujis' analog-style manual controls.  Shutter speed and ISO dials sit on the top of the camera and are easy to find by feel while you're looking through the viewfinder.  There's also an exposure-compensation dial, if you are using auto-exposure, to tweak what the AE system thinks is correct.  Aperture is controlled by a ring that you move around the circumference of the lens: remarkable invention!  (I'm surprised no one ever thought of this before.)  The usual automation capabilities are available; you can turn the Fujis into point-and-shoot cameras, if you're so inclined.  But the ability to modify the settings as manually as you want, using controls that click into place as you watch the settings change in the electronic viewfinder, fits well with the way I like to shoot.

This.  I picked up an Xt3 last year to work on some video projects for my wife, and I love the thing so much I've now added an XT4 to it.  Another thing I love - and maybe all mirrorless cameras do this, so maybe it's not that special - is the blue bar that physically displays the "in focus" range in the viewfinder.

Logged

James Clark

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2347
Re: A couple of beefs about modern cameras
« Reply #14 on: June 29, 2020, 02:38:58 pm »



I think the Zeiss Batis lenses for Sony do some of what you wish, via the little window on top of them. You focus on a distance and reports the DOF.

This is what I'm referring to on the Fuji, except it's in the viewfinder. :)
Logged

kers

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4389
    • Pieter Kers
Re: A couple of beefs about modern cameras
« Reply #15 on: June 29, 2020, 02:56:02 pm »

About new camera's
I don't like tsome bad implementations of focus by wire;
if you shut the camera off or are out of battery power; the focus shifts to infinity again...
In some cases while working focus does not stay but shifts a bit without being ordered to.
Then the automatic distortion correction- must be able to turn it off- a LR-problem.


Logged
Pieter Kers
www.beeld.nu/la

Alan Klein

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15850
    • Flicker photos
Re: A couple of beefs about modern cameras
« Reply #16 on: June 29, 2020, 03:22:17 pm »

About new camera's
I don't like tsome bad implementations of focus by wire;
if you shut the camera off or are out of battery power; the focus shifts to infinity again...
In some cases while working focus does not stay but shifts a bit without being ordered to.
Then the automatic distortion correction- must be able to turn it off- a LR-problem.



Pieter  I think there is a way to shut it off in LR. 

FabienP

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 192
Re: A couple of beefs about modern cameras
« Reply #17 on: July 01, 2020, 06:31:28 pm »


So how come I can't go to the menu and tell the camera to set the lens to infinity? It doesn't happen to me often, but now and then under the right lighting conditions with fuzzy distant objects, the camera has a difficult time focussing and I KNOW they are at infinity (or close enough). In the old manual days, you'd just rack the lens focus to the end stop. That's not often possible these days.

[...]

There is still a hard infinity focus point on most modern manual focus lenses but it tends to be unreliable on high MPX cameras. Some margin has to be accounted for lens barrel dilatation due to heat, zoom variations at different FLs and lens mount tolerance. This is the reason why lenses can focus beyond infinity. That latter part is true of AF lenses as well.

Thus I fear there is no real infinity point which will be good enough to ensure no misfocus happens. It has to be measured each time a variable is updated in the lens system.

There are tools that can help with manual focusing in the dark, such as the Bahtinov Masks used in astrophotography. I suppose these could work on most point lights in a landscape as well.

Cheers,
Fabien
Logged
Pages: [1]   Go Up