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Author Topic: Determining color (ink?) density while making ICC profiles????  (Read 1226 times)

Rand47

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This is for Andrew Rodney ...

Caveat.  I know NOTHING about generating ICC profiles.  I’ve always had a professional do it for me.  ;-)

I have a new Epson SC P7570 printer and 3rd party paper manufacturers are starting to post profiles for their papers for this printer.  E.g. Ilford.  Correction: Canson.  Something “brand new to me” is that in their handling instructions they provide the appropriate Epson media type, but now also instruct that the color density should be set to -15% when using their profile for Baryta Prestige, and Platine Fibre Rag (but not for their new Baryta Photographique II).  NOTE:  Edited to correct paper info. 

Two questions:  1.  How does one determine that this is necessary when generating an ICC profile?   2.  Why would it be necessary with this printer but never has been necessary with any of the many many Epson printers I’ve owned?

Thanks in advance for insight / education . . .

Rand
« Last Edit: May 17, 2020, 11:36:36 am by Rand47 »
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digitaldog

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Re: Determining color (ink?) density while making ICC profiles????
« Reply #1 on: May 17, 2020, 12:29:04 pm »

This is for Andrew Rodney ...

Caveat.  I know NOTHING about generating ICC profiles.  I’ve always had a professional do it for me.  ;-)

I have a new Epson SC P7570 printer and 3rd party paper manufacturers are starting to post profiles for their papers for this printer.  E.g. Ilford.  Correction: Canson.  Something “brand new to me” is that in their handling instructions they provide the appropriate Epson media type, but now also instruct that the color density should be set to -15% when using their profile for Baryta Prestige, and Platine Fibre Rag (but not for their new Baryta Photographique II).  NOTE:  Edited to correct paper info. 

Two questions:  1.  How does one determine that this is necessary when generating an ICC profile?   2.  Why would it be necessary with this printer but never has been necessary with any of the many many Epson printers I’ve owned?
Thanks in advance for insight / education . . .

Rand

1. The only way would be to build a profile both ways, test (either visually with images or using a far more complex colorimetric analysis with something like ColorThink Pro).
2. No idea, not even sure it's true.
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NAwlins_Contrarian

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Re: Determining color (ink?) density while making ICC profiles????
« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2020, 08:25:13 pm »

If you'll accept some thoughts from someone with far less expertise, I have a few:
* As a general matter, any ICC printing profile is necessarily specific to the printer driver settings, including media type, that were used when the profiling target was printed.
* My usual approach, as a fair to middling amateur / hobbyist, is to look up what media type the paper manufacturer recommends for that paper in the printer at issue, or the most-similar printer for which it makes a recommendation.
* However, some printer drivers allow you to build your own media types, and even limited to the media types built into the driver, you can test which of them is best. Obviously for a pigment-ink printer with both photo black and matte black inks, a media type that uses the more appropriate type for the paper is important. Other issues include a reasonably-appropriate thickness and ink loading, i.e., volume of ink per area printed. As I understand it, one of your questions is how to test / determine this. Limited to what's known to me to be currently available, online, with instructions, and free, the only one is at https://www.on-sight.com/how-to-determine-the-optimal-media-selection-for-any-paper/. I have not tried to use it. It would not surprise me if, e.g., Qimage also has some facility to do this, but I don't know.
* Once you've built or determined the best media type to use, then you print your profiling target etc.

As for, 'Why me and my P7570 / why this Epson now?'--I guess it was Jan Smit and his P9500 instead of you who had the issues with ink apparently pooling on the paper / too much ink. All I can suppose is that Canson has come to a similar conclusion: that the Epson media type(s) otherwise most appropriate for Baryta Prestige and Platine Fibre Rag use too heavy an ink load for those papers, and therefore Canson recommends reducing it by 15%. You could certainly run tests using the test system linked-to above, with say 0, -15%, -25%, and see which works best. And if you find it's -15%, then maybe run additional tests at -10% and -20%. Once you've determined the best setting, you could build or have built custom ICC profiles using that setting.

Or at least, that is what I suppose, based on admittedly-limited knowledge.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2020, 12:19:38 am by NAwlins_Contrarian »
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Rand47

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Re: Determining color (ink?) density while making ICC profiles????
« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2020, 09:24:33 am »

Thanks to you both for the responses.

Rand
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mearussi

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Re: Determining color (ink?) density while making ICC profiles????
« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2020, 12:32:04 pm »

When you print out the profile test pattern if the ink is too heavy you'll see uneven color and/or smearing (use a lupe to examine). What you're trying for is to put as much ink on the paper as possible to maximize color density but not so much that you get the colors running or smearing. Also if the colors aren't perfectly dry to the touch (they should not feel tacky) you're putting down too much ink.
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Rand47

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Re: Determining color (ink?) density while making ICC profiles????
« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2020, 01:06:05 pm »

When you print out the profile test pattern if the ink is too heavy you'll see uneven color and/or smearing (use a lupe to examine). What you're trying for is to put as much ink on the paper as possible to maximize color density but not so much that you get the colors running or smearing. Also if the colors aren't perfectly dry to the touch (they should not feel tacky) you're putting down too much ink.

Thank you . . .  much appreciated.  This new series Epson printers (75xx/95xx) are "different" in several ways.  Not bad, outstanding in fact, but different.  This kind of practical information is very helpful.

Rand
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