Relation between ink density and printer profile

[David Eckels]

I have been printing on a Canon ipf8400 for almost six years. Love the printer, but its intricacies have proven to be a long negotiation.

Note to beginners: Don't wast time and money on any profiler that cannot profile at least both your monitor and your paper! I thought that if I profiled my monitor, I would be happy with "canned" profiles, but I was not. If you want the least amount of hassle and WYSIWYG, the pros on this site have been telling it true. There are no shortcuts; this I learned the hard way    BTW, I am now using the xrite iStudio.

I purchased a bunch of Epson canvas from BC because it was cheap and I was using the "built in" Canon Artistic Satin profile in Lightroom. I was getting decent prints, but it was necessary to do up to a dozen test prints to get the final looking right. Stupidity cost money and time! Lesson:

1) Turn off color management in the printer driver; let LR do it. Duh!
2) Learn to build a profile! Results were bang on right. Spank, spank!

One problem: When I stretched the canvas, even after drying up to a week, my fingers would look like I'd been finger printed! And of course it would smear onto the canvas when I wrestled with the corners. I tried varnishing with BC Timeless, but the black would lift up onto the roller and ruin the canvas, obviously. This is why I started worrying about ink density and how to adjust it in Canon's Media Configuration Tool (see attached screen shot).

Printing from LR using the my new MCT configuration and my original modified printer profile, I tried three recent color and B/W test prints. Smearing much, much abated after only 15 minutes drying time! But, the prints are also much darker.

My questions:
1) Was I using MBK ink in the first profile I created for Canon Artistic Satin canvas? I don't know how to check as it does not appear in the MCT.
2) Would I now be using BK ink in the Epsn Canvas configuration (see screen capture)?
3) Does it make sense that I could get away with Medium-low Maximum Ink Usage and yet get darker prints?
4) If the answer to #3 is yes, I guess I need a new profile, correct?

If this is addressed elsewhere previously please pardon, but the link would be a great help. Thanks in advance for any advice.

[routlaw]

From what I can determine based upon your description above you are still going about this wrong or rather backward.

First thing you should do is to determine what canvas you want to use, then use the Media Configuration Tool to create a custom file for future use. Then and only then do you build a printer profile based upon the "raw" targets printed using the file from the MCT. What is meant by "raw" are targets printed with NO COLOR MANAGEMENT applied. In my opinion this is best done via the Print Plug In module that Canon provides. Personally I find printing in Lightroom a kludge at best and much prefer using Photoshop>Print Plug in. I also do not like to have the printer manage color, but have PS manage color with a profile conversion command, but again only after a proven and reliable printer profile as been built. I've seen issues with profile conversions with the printer managing color and feel PS does a much better and more reliable conversion.

There is some confusing info you provide though. It appears you have Epson Canvas that was ordered from Breathing Color, but use a Canon Canvas MCT file. I have ordered canvas from BC for years but this is the first I've ever heard of them supplying anything but their own branded canvas let alone canvas made by Epson. I don't use Epson media as a rule, so its not clear to me why and if they would provide a MCT file for a competing printer manufacturer such as Canon. In any case what you need to do first is determine if the particular media (canvas) requires MBK or PBK ink, and this would be a starting point to design your AM1 file via the MCT. But you could make this a whole lot easier on yourself if you chose another canvas where the manufacturer has already created this file that you can download for free. I have found the AM1 files from Breathing Color to be excellent starting source for their branded canvas, print the targets using that, then build the printer profile for that media.

Unless I've misunderstood much of your description above you have created a bit of a chaotic workflow that will not provide reliable and quality results. My apologies if my understanding is incorrect. Hopefully this helps.

[digitaldog]

Don't know about #3, you'll have to do some testing. This might help:
Download this test file for visually examining ink density. Used to test best media settings for 3rd party papers:
http://digitaldog.net/files/InkDensity.zip
#4, YES, if you alter any device behavior, you need to profile that new behavior.

[David Eckels]

Routlaw,

No worries. Yes, I realize that I have created a bit of a mess. Had I known better, I only became aware of MCT a few days ago, and if I had bought a proper profiler to begin with instead of going cheap, I wouldn't be in this pickle. As for printing within LR, it is what I have gotten used to; PS might be a better tool, but without proper profiles and the correct MCT files, I'd be down another rabbit hole.

As for BC and Epson, it was a couple years ago and I don't know the origins of why they were selling Epson. Overstock? Outdated? IDK.

As for choice of canvas, I just wanted to learn how to print with it. Haven't yet been asked to submit to MOMA! 

Thanks for your advice. Hindsight is 20/20, but I find it is usually painful to obtain.

[Jim Kasson]

Note to beginners: Don't wast time and money on any profiler that cannot profile at least both your monitor and your paper!

There is no particular reason to use the same profiling technique for your monitors and your printers.

For example, iSis devices are great for profiling printers (if your paper isn't too thick), but they won't help you profile a monitor at all. My main monitor, the Eizo 319X, profiles itself -- at night -- with a built-in spectrophotometer. No additional equipment is required.

[Jim Metzger]

I have had really good experience having Breathing Color develop a profile for my ancient Epson 7600 and their canvas products. They send a file with instructions to print, you send the patch back to them and they send the profile back. This may not be accurate enough for your use but it worked really well for me.

[digitaldog]

There is no particular reason to use the same profiling technique for your monitors and your printers.

+1. Further, the display requires a target for calibration which is key to print to display matching. The profile only reflects that calibration. We rarely have to calibrate the printers in this discussion but we do need to profile them.

[David Eckels]

Andrew: Thanks for the test file. On my way to a new printer profile.

Jim, Jim, and Andrew: Thank you for the clarification. I don't want to be spreading FUD 

[David Eckels]

Success!
Re-profiled the Epson canvas with the new MCT configuration using BK ink.
Excellent accuracy viz monitor AND no smearing! The difference in the amount of ink was easily observed in Andrew's test file.
Thanks again, all.