Suggestions for a printer suitable for producing a large-format book

[guyburns]

I am seeking suggestions for a printer to suit a small run, large-format book. After several hours of research on the net and emails to three local print firms, I still haven’t resolved matters, even though I completed a much larger project a dozen years ago on a laser printer. I’ll begin with some background.

Background
In 2006 I started laying out a book in InDesign. It ended up a large book (60 copies, 816 pages, 3.9 kgs) and I did most things myself:

• buying the archival paper in 910 x 650 sheets direct from the wholesaler
• they cut to size (520 x 280) and delivered to a printer in South Melbourne
• printed on a Xerox iGen3
• shipped to me at home and I did the binding in leather

The iGen3 wasn’t my first choice. My intention was to buy it’s baby brother, the 7750, for about $5000, and do everything at home on A3+. However, detailed comparisons between the Xerox machines, the Kodak NexPress, and HP’s Indigo, favoured the iGen. Here is an brief excerpt from my notes, July 2006:

The Xerox 7750 is capable of giving almost the same quality prints as the iGen. However, it is not colour-calibrated automatically every sheet, as is the iGen. I have tested four 7750s and the colour cast ranges from too green to too red. The three iGens did not have this problem. I suspect the 7750 can give accurate colour rendition but it would need to be calibrated regularly. The colour casts I have seen are actually a good indication that the 7750 can give accurate colour – the variations says that the colours can be adjusted. It would be an indication of a poor machine if the colour was the same each time – and wrong.

So I went with the iGen, and I thought the result was superb, given that the photos were mostly Box Brownie types from the 1920s to the 1950s. However, I can’t use an iGen this time because I haven’t the buying power I did back in 2006. Then I needed about 13,000 sheets printed and I was quoted a very good price. Now I only need about 200 printed sheets, and I’m pretty sure I’ll do it at home if I can find a suitable printer.


The Project
Reproductions of B&W negatives taken in Tasmania in the 1950s, with a small amount of text. There’s no wow factor about these photos; they are of historic interest only, about bushwalking to remote wilderness areas. Unlike my previous book, the photos will be the feature, so I’m thinking that a laser jet, even an iGen5, probably won’t present them in their best light. Attached is a typical image.

Here are some details:

• 3 copies of a 300 page book
• 4 pages per sheet, printed both sides
• 75 sheets per book, size not yet decided but something like 650 x 330
• 1 photo per page, printed in B&W, sized at about 300mm on the long side


Cost
I’d be willing to spend about $2000 all up for the three books.

Questions
The questions below are directed towards ink jets such as the Surecolor P800. It may turn out that ink jets are not cost effective because of the ink cost. For example, the iGen business made a healthy profit on my first book, charging 70 cents per double-sided, full-colour sheet. For that book, the toner coverage was quite small because of all the white space.

I have approached local print companies, but they can’t (or won’t) print double-sided on their large format ink jets, and their laser printers only print on A3+. That’s the reason I’m here, to discover other options.

The book will be layed out in InDesign, exported to PDF (with pages imposed), and sent to the printer.

Ques 1
What is the likely ink cost of printing an A4 grayscale image, with a histogram centred on the middle, on something like an Surecolor P800? Are we talking 50 cents, or $5?


Ques 2
Assuming uncoated smooth paper, off white, 120 GSM, will black text be as sharp as from a laser?


Ques 3
What problems might I encounter with ink jet images printed on the paper described in Ques 2? Keep in mind that these are non-wow images from the 1950s, taken out in the bush by amateurs without light meters. I want them to look good – very good – but no one other than a few bushwalkers will be viewing them.


Ques 4
The P800 offers four blacks: Matte, Photo, Light and Light Light. I read a review which said:

Unfortunately, you still need to switch black inks between Matte black and Photo Black when swapping between matte and glossy papers. And, as before, ink is used in this process, with approximately 4.6 ml ‘wasted’ when swapping from Matte to Photo Black and 1.6 ml when going in the reverse direction.

I don’t understand. Why does the machine waste ink when swapping? Can’t it just change to a different cartridge?


Ques 5
If I print an image that is in grayscale mode (not RGB, not CMYK) will the image use only the black inks?


Ques 6
Can I force the printer to use only blacks?


Ques 7
Is it desirable to print grayscale images in K only?


Any suggestions as to a suitable ink jet printer would be most appreciated:

• Print up to 650 x 330 mm on any custom size paper
• Sheet fed so that I can print double-sided
• Text as sharp as a laser printer
• Print on CD/DVD would come in handy, though not essential
• A machine that doesn’t clog if I don’t use it for a few months

[MichaelKoerner]

What is the likely ink cost of printing an A4 grayscale image, with a histogram centred on the middle, on something like an Surecolor P800? Are we talking 50 cents, or $5?

According to the android app "Epson LFP Ink Cost Calculator", one page in DIN A3 (420x297mm) at 66% ink duty (Photo, 720x1440dpi) ink costs are $1,61.
At 42% ink duty (Office, 720x720dpi) ink costs are $ 0,81.-

Assuming uncoated smooth paper, off white, 120 GSM, will black text be as sharp as from a laser?

IMHO, you won't get usable results with ink jet printers like the P800 on uncoated paper. In order to be able to absorb ink in a controlled way, all ink jet papers are coated, also matte ones. There exist inkjet emulsions, but you won't use that in quantities.

I don’t understand. Why does the machine waste ink when swapping? Can’t it just change to a different cartridge?

It does, but doing so it has to flush pipelines and printhead. On P800's successor P900 the black switching issue is resolved. Finally.

If I print an image that is in grayscale mode (not RGB, not CMYK) will the image use only the black inks? Can I force the printer to use only blacks? Is it desirable to print grayscale images in K only?

As the "grey" inks are not necessarily neutral grey but show slight tints, it depends on the used printing driver/RIP/profiling solution how neutral greys are achieved. In that process, often the (light) colored inks are used to produce neutral greys.

There exist dedicated grey only inksets (Piezography for instance). You could purchase a used P800 to use them (with dedicated ink sets black switching would not concern you any more).

As you seem to be interested in controlling all aspects of production (aka tinkering), the dedicated black & white RIP (aka printing software) called QuadToneRIP (QTR) (for Epson printers only) might interest you as well.

Digital B&W is a grateful topic to tinker with. Expect lots of hours to be spent ;-)

Any suggestions as to a suitable ink jet printer would be most appreciated:

Canon PRO-1000 or Epson P800/900. All great, I'd prefer the latter, due to QTR.

Regards, Michael

[guyburns]

Thanks, Michael, for the detailed response. I've had a close look at all the links and suggestions you provided, and it looks like I may be barking up the wrong tree thinking about an inkjet – but that's part of the learning process and that's what I'm here for.

Coated Papers
If coated papers are the way to go, that appears to be a very limiting factor in my case, because I'd need coating both sides. This paper selector here in Australia, offers four papers in the A2 double-sided range (nothing in the size I'm aiming for) at almost $10 per sheet. $750 for each book just for the paper. Pause for thought.

Ques 8
Is coated paper really necessary for an acceptable look? Will text appear blurry?
I'm not talking art-quality reproduction, just something that looks like an ordinary book with B&W photos.

Ques 9
How come offset printing, which uses liquid inks, can print superbly on almost any paper, but inkjets can't?

I probably will have a few more questions, but the indicative costs so far are $1500 per book (paper, printer, special inks). The iGen5, even for my small print run, is coming sharply into focus.

[elliot_n]

Three 300 page books?

Surely a print-on-demand outfit like Blurb makes the most sense?

[MichaelKoerner]

Elliot, if one gets the demanded paper size from a print-on-demand service this would be an efficient way to go. Despite of that I guess the OP is interested in DIY?

$750 for each book just for the paper. Pause for thought.

A2+ paper by a german reseller. EUR 0,8.- per sheet, 120gsm.

Is coated paper really necessary for an acceptable look? Will text appear blurry?
I'm not talking art-quality reproduction, just something that looks like an ordinary book with B&W photos.

I did tests with rolls of wall paper some time ago. I used big typo then (18p), no images, but got rather blurry results. One could get results with more testing, which I didn‘t.

There is a thread on LuLa on this topic.

How come offset printing, which uses liquid inks, can print superbly on almost any paper, but inkjets can't?

I am not absolutely sure (and would be glad to be corrected by someone more experienced), but AFAIK, coated papers for offset printing have an emulsion applied that makes the surface smoother and softer, capable of finer raster and higher Dmax. Coated papers of that kind are matte without further tratment. Coating for inkjet papers means preparing the surface to receive the „squirted“ ink drops.

At offset print ink gets transferred via rubber blanket (don‘t know whether this is the correct english term). Images get rastered in a special way, the dot gain resulting of the ink sucked into the paper is a known part of the process. IMO those are the main parameters that result in that difference. Corrections highly welcome!

[elliot_n]

Elliot, if one gets the demanded paper size from a print-on-demand service this would be an efficient way to go. Despite of that I guess the OP is interested in DIY?

Sure. It sounds like the OP's book dimensions are 260x280mm (?) So to use a POD service like Blurb, he might have to tweak his PDF to make the book a true square.

A2+ paper by a german reseller. EUR 0,8.- per sheet, 120gsm.

That paper is suitably thin for a 300 page book. I wonder though whether you would get print-through when printing photos, double-sided, with an Epson printer?

I am not absolutely sure (and would be glad to be corrected by someone more experienced), but AFAIK, coated papers for offset printing have an emulsion applied that makes the surface smoother and softer, capable of finer raster and higher Dmax. Coated papers of that kind are matte without further tratment. Coating for inkjet papers means preparing the surface to receive the „squirted“ ink drops.

At offset print ink gets transferred via rubber blanket (don‘t know whether this is the correct english term). Images get rastered in a special way, the dot gain resulting of the ink sucked into the paper is a known part of the process. IMO those are the main parameters that result in that difference. Corrections highly welcome!

The ink in the inkjet process is much more liquid than the ink in the offset process. Offset ink is more of a thick syrup.

[unesco]

I think 120 gsm matt coated paper for printing on inkjet double sided photos will make the sheet too wet and paper will get deformed. You would need to reduce ink density in driver, but this will give decrease depth in blacks.

I was doing double sided printing on Ilford satin ~250 gsm and it was ok with P800. Tecco will be a bit cheaper, there might be other options, but not sure if available in AU. Hahnemuhle Photo Rag book and album 220 would be great, but very expensive. There is their Photo Matt Fibre Duo 210 gsm - very good and cheaper, but still not very cheap. I think Tecco has its cheaper equivalent if I remember properly. Both very well suited for double side printing. Used both a lot (and earlier Harman version) with P800 and 3880.

Ilford double (and single) sided matt coated papers doesn't work good with Epsons and give bad results.

[MichaelKoerner]

The ink in the inkjet process is much more liquid than the ink in the offset process. Offset ink is more of a thick syrup.

That is by far the best explanation. Offset ink gets smeared with spattles into the color decks, as I should have remembered beforehand.

That paper is suitably thin for a 300 page book. I wonder though whether you would get print-through when printing photos, double-sided, with an Epson printer?

You are right, this was just a quickly chosen example, mainly because of the size (432x648 mm). Here in Europe I don't know any larger sheets available for a 17" printer, and this size comes very close to the OP's 330x650mm. There are thicker versions available as well, not much more expensive. "Tecco Production" is in a similar prize range, but AFAIK only in A2 (420x594). Then there are rolls of course, but in this case I'd prefer sheets.

[mearussi]

Sounds like you're taking a simple (though time consuming) task and making it complicated. If all you're wanting to do is to print 300 pages double sided using an inkjet printer then this paper should work fine:

https://imagescience.com.au/products/inkjet-papers/llford-galerie-semigloss-duo-250gsm

Any decent inkjet printer will work, from the Canon Pro 100 to the Epson P5000.  This just won't be an inexpensive project because of the ink and paper costs. Using the above paper you're looking at around $1.50-$2.00 per A4 page for paper and ink depending on ink coverage. So you're looking at around $600 plus the cost of the printer, and just double that for A3+. Binding is a separate matter and one I have no expertise with and so can't comment on.

[guyburns]

Thanks for all the comments.

MomentoPro
The one about Blurb sent me back to where I'd started about a month ago: using an on-demand print shop. That originally led me to momentopro, and what appeared to be the best-quality on-demand printery in Australia. I had a few questions, so I rang and spoke with a woman who answered all my questions. They run a 9-cartridge Epson for the larger sizes, and an Indigo for the smaller sizes.

I have little doubt they are among the best, charging around $1000 for each of my books, bound and delivered, but in a smaller size than I'd really like: 12 x 12.


Blurb
I hadn't come across Blurb in my initial searching. They can do a 13 x 11 book, pretty close to what I want, but the price, $200, put me off as too cheap. Too many compromises. If mine was a colour job, it might come out acceptably, but B&W… I can imagine the colouring I'd see, confirmed by a Mr Charles Webster here:

I was not comparing their print with my screen. I was comparing their print with other prints from the same file, one made by me with my Epson 2200, one made by Costco, one made on a large-format Canon printer, and a post card made by Next Day Promotions postcard printer. All 4 prints match quite closely, the book is not even close. White balance is way off and color saturation is to high.

However, because Blurb is so cheap, I may get a smaller job done, say a $50 book, just to see how it looks.


Boomerang
So I'm back close to where I started: MomentoPro > local-business laser jets > Luminous Landscape inkjets > Blurb.

Thanks again for the suggestions. I'll let it all sink in while I get some iGen 5 quotes.

[guyburns]

Something I forgot to mention.

Coated Paper
I've been sus about coated paper ever since I learned in 2006, while researching printers and papers, that the National Archives of Australia had only certified one paper as truly archival, of those that had been submitted for testing -- Perpetuum.

Coating was actually a big no-no for the archives.

As Perpetuum was quite expensive, I looked into it a bit further. Here are my notes written at the time:

The only paper that meets National Archive of Australia standards, is Perpetuum, made in small quantities by Australian Paper at Shoalhaven. There are three papers listed by the NAA, but they are all the same paper. Shoalhaven also makes a very similar paper (Saxton, available from CPI). According to a friend (Alan Keeley) who managed the Wesley Vale paper mill and who knew Shoalhaven quite well, and who tested Saxton for me, it is almost certainly the same paper as Perpetuum but without the NAA watermark.

Archival Survival is the only supplier of Perpetuum in Australia. Geoff McIntyre (1300 781 199), says he stocks about 20 tons and supplies it mostly for university theses and governments. But I chose Saxton because it was more readily available. I used two weights of Saxton Chardonnay (an off-white paper): 115 GSM for the text pages, and 140 GSM for the endpapers. The short-grain 520 x 280 sheets I required were cut from long-grain 910 x 650 sheets, three from each large sheet.

Many papers claim to be archivable, but the NAA doesn’t agree.