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Author Topic: Epson Surecolor P900 lust  (Read 40393 times)

pschefz

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Re: Epson Surecolor P900 lust
« Reply #40 on: May 28, 2020, 11:47:47 pm »

pschefz,

B&H still shows expected availability early June, where did you find mid July?

Richard Southworth
I ordered at itsupplies , have bought there for years, when i ordered 2 weeks ago, they said early June as well....epson now says the date has slipped back...i guess the P700 should be out earlier.....i would not be surprised if the date slips back to august for the P900 though....
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texshooter

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Re: Epson Surecolor P900 lust
« Reply #41 on: June 07, 2020, 07:54:15 pm »

Can someone help me understand how Epson can charge twice for ink for the 13" P700 than for the 17" P900 and get away with it?
Am I to believe shoppers would rather pay double for P700 ink just to save a mere 4 inches in width?
Both models weigh the same, for Pete's sake.

I don't get it.

Epson P900
24.2" x 14.5" x 7.8" (W x D x H)
35.3 lb
https://epson.com/For-Work/Printers/Large-Format/SureColor-P900-17-Inch-Photo-Printer/p/C11CH37201

Epson P700
20.3" x 14.5" x 7.3"(W x D x H)
35.3 lb
https://epson.com/For-Work/Printers/Large-Format/SureColor-P700-13-Inch-Photo-Printer/p/C11CH38201
« Last Edit: June 08, 2020, 10:29:21 am by texshooter »
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dgberg

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Re: Epson Surecolor P900 lust
« Reply #42 on: June 08, 2020, 07:51:13 am »

Unless you are a home printer with limited space these two printers have very limited appeal.(YOMV) When you figure in the cost of consumables they are crazy expensive to operate.
The P700 ink is coming in at almost a $1.60 a ml. The P900 .90 a ml. The P800 ink cost is around .73 a ml. I agree the no black ink change will be nice for many. Is it worth paying the higher ink cost, probably not.
Epson has you one way or another. You flush it with an ink change they have you. You buy the new printer with a 25% higher ink cost they still have you.
The best deal if you are an Epson person and have the room is a P6000 24" machine that can take 700ml carts. Full retail for those ink carts is $247 for 700ml.
I recently purchased some for $175@ Good dates too. You could buy 150's or 350's if you don't print that much.
That is .25  a ml. A huge savings.

shadowblade

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Re: Epson Surecolor P900 lust
« Reply #43 on: June 08, 2020, 08:56:18 am »

I'm not sold on the violet ink - not without more data on print permanence.

Using the violet ink on Epson's current printers decreases the print longevity significantly. In these printers, it's more for proofing, to match Pantone colours, than for photo printing.

If the new violet carries a similar penalty, I'd see little reason for photographers to use it - at least not without a RIP or other software solution to produce prints without using the violet at all.
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mearussi

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Re: Epson Surecolor P900 lust
« Reply #44 on: June 08, 2020, 11:22:01 am »

I'm not sold on the violet ink - not without more data on print permanence.

Using the violet ink on Epson's current printers decreases the print longevity significantly. In these printers, it's more for proofing, to match Pantone colours, than for photo printing.

If the new violet carries a similar penalty, I'd see little reason for photographers to use it - at least not without a RIP or other software solution to produce prints without using the violet at all.
Where did you get the info that the violet ink fades fast?
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shadowblade

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Re: Epson Surecolor P900 lust
« Reply #45 on: June 08, 2020, 12:03:19 pm »

Where did you get the info that the violet ink fades fast?

I don't know about the violet used in this inkset. This is based on the two different inksets you can choose for the previous generation - the standard edition with light light black and the commercial edition with violet

Light light black - better tonality, better longevity, meant for photos.

Violet - slightly wider gamut, able to match a wider range of Pantone colours, meant for pre-press and proofing work, not recommended for photos.

If they've managed to make a new violet which expands the gamut without sacrificing one of the black inks or sacrificing print permanence, that would be great. No-one ever said it was the same violet as the old one. It could well be that 'violet' here is more like the 'blue' in HP's Vivera inkset, which definitely scores high on permanence.

But I'd want some data before going all-in on it. After all, both Epson and Canon have a track record of sacrificing print permanence for more 'pop' for commercial work - Epson with the yellow in the Ultrachrome K3 inkset, which was much less permanent, but more vibrant, than their older yellow (somewhat ameliorated with the Ultrachrome HDR inkset, which used the same yellow, but had orange ink which could be used to cover for the weak yellow) and Canon with their recent Lucia Pro inkset, compared with the older Lucia EX inkset.
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nirpat89

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Re: Epson Surecolor P900 lust
« Reply #46 on: June 08, 2020, 02:31:30 pm »

Can someone help me understand how Epson can charge twice for ink for the 13" P700 than for the 17" P900 and get away with it?
Am I to believe shoppers would rather pay double for P700 ink just to save a mere 4 inches in width?
Both models weigh the same, for Pete's sake.

I don't get it.

Epson P900
24.2" x 14.5" x 7.8" (W x D x H)
35.3 lb
https://epson.com/For-Work/Printers/Large-Format/SureColor-P900-17-Inch-Photo-Printer/p/C11CH37201

Epson P700
20.3" x 14.5" x 7.3"(W x D x H)
35.3 lb
https://epson.com/For-Work/Printers/Large-Format/SureColor-P700-13-Inch-Photo-Printer/p/C11CH38201

They want you to buy the 900, I suppose.  For extra $400, you get the bigger prints and half the cost of ink. 

Looks like there is no lust lost here after initial excitement.....
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texshooter

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Re: Epson Surecolor P900 lust
« Reply #47 on: June 08, 2020, 05:44:10 pm »

They want you to buy the 900, I suppose.  For extra $400, you get the bigger prints and half the cost of ink. 


I never print larger than 13x19", but I wouldn't get the P700 because it is virtually the same size as the P900 -- no desk space savings there. And it weighs the same 35.3lbs (down to the ounce, go figure).  Sure, I'll have to fork over an extra $400 upfront, but there's no way I'm spending double for ink just for 4 extra inches of desk real estate. If the P700 were, say, ten pounds lighter or a third smaller, then you got a deal. 

I suppose the P700 model is meant for those who rarely use it.

I am tempted to wait, however, to see if Canon will soon update their Pixma Pro-1 12-ink 13" model. How long has it been, 10 years?


UPDATE:

Epson's website is wrong. I downloaded the user manual to confirm the printers' dimensions.  It turns out the P700 weighs 5 pounds less than the P900. That makes more sense. Plus the P900 weighs 8 pounds less than my Epson 3800. That's a pleasant surprise.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2020, 06:28:35 pm by texshooter »
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greyscale

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Re: Epson Surecolor P900 lust
« Reply #48 on: June 25, 2020, 01:43:18 pm »

B&HPhoto has a July 16 date for availability 8)
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rdonson

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Re: Epson Surecolor P900 lust
« Reply #49 on: June 25, 2020, 02:21:42 pm »

Its still a mystery for me why my P800 has 80 mil ink carts and the new P900 has 50 mil ink carts. 

I hope to be using the P800 for a long time based on the ink cart capacities. The new features of the P900 won't overcome that for me.
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Regards,
Ron

rasworth

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Re: Epson Surecolor P900 lust
« Reply #50 on: June 25, 2020, 04:03:48 pm »

I have one ordered, went to the B&H site to see the new date.  Also found a new "In the box" list, that labels all cartridges "starter".  Stay tuned.

Richard Southworth
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FabienP

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Re: Epson Surecolor P900 lust
« Reply #51 on: June 25, 2020, 04:23:46 pm »

I have one ordered, went to the B&H site to see the new date.  Also found a new "In the box" list, that labels all cartridges "starter".  Stay tuned.

Richard Southworth

Starter cartridges are needed to purge the lines when doing the initial ink loading cycle. AFAIK they contain a special fluid for this purpose and cannot contain as much ink as normal cartridges.

The 100 dollar question is if the starter cartridges are full (as they were on my SC-P600) or if they will be half empty (as they were on the SC-P800).

Cheers,
Fabien
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dgberg

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Re: Epson Surecolor P900 lust
« Reply #52 on: June 25, 2020, 05:13:44 pm »

What do you mean by special fluid?

NAwlins_Contrarian

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Re: Epson Surecolor P900 lust
« Reply #53 on: June 25, 2020, 10:43:40 pm »

Starter cartridges are needed to purge the lines when doing the initial ink loading cycle. AFAIK they contain a special fluid for this purpose and cannot contain as much ink as normal cartridges.

The 100 dollar question is if the starter cartridges are full (as they were on my SC-P600) or if they will be half empty (as they were on the SC-P800).

What do you mean by special fluid?

AFAIK, it's the printer that sometimes comes with a special packing fluid in the lines, dampers (if any), etc., a sort of Cosmoline for printers. The starter cartridges do not contain any such fluid; they contain regular ink. In some printers the presence of starter cartridges may trigger the printer to run a purge cycle, where it pumps enough fluid through the system (dampers, lines, and head(s) to the waste tank) to make sure all the packing fluid is gone and ink is in its place.

AFAIK, the P800 starter cartridges were not half full; instead they were 80% full, listed as 64ml instead of the regular 80ml. Of course some of that 64ml gets drawn from the cartridges to fill the lines etc. when the printer is initialized for the first time. Maybe after that the cartridges have a remaining capacity of half of a regular ink cartridge. But that doesn't mean much ink was wasted. I have to think that the large majority of ink drawn from the starter cartridges during that initialization remains in the lines etc., available for printing.

Although it is well-known that P800 starter cartridges came with 64ml ink instead of the full 80ml, I have not yet seen any reports on how much ink comes in P900 starter cartridges. There have been complaints that not much is left after initializing. But to engage in some math speculation: if (as some have said) about 50% remains in a P800 starter cartridge after initialization, that means that about 40ml remains, so about 64ml - 40ml = 24ml was used for initialization. If the P900 starter cartridges likewise come 80% full relative to their regular 50ml capacity, then that would mean they come with 40ml of ink. If the same (as the P800) 24ml is used for initialization, that would mean that 40ml - 24ml = 16ml remains. 16ml is 32% of the full 50ml.
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dgberg

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Re: Epson Surecolor P900 lust
« Reply #54 on: June 26, 2020, 07:39:00 am »

That's better, I understand. Sounded like you said the starter carts had a special fluid.

rasworth

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Re: Epson Surecolor P900 lust
« Reply #55 on: June 29, 2020, 04:55:14 pm »

After several miscommunications with Epson (P900 was interpreted to be P9000) they stated the starter cartridges hold 25ml, i.e. 50% normal.  May have to re-think my purchase, IMO it's excessive corporate greed.

Richard Southworth
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rasworth

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Re: Epson Surecolor P900 lust
« Reply #56 on: June 29, 2020, 05:02:48 pm »

Per B&H $420 for 10 cartridges.  Any opinions on reasonableness or the lack thereof?

Richard Southworth
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rasworth

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Re: Epson Surecolor P900 lust
« Reply #57 on: June 29, 2020, 07:35:31 pm »

The Canon Pro 1000 goes for $1000 or so after rebate, and comes with full 80 ml cartridges?  The P100 costs $1200 with 25ml starter cartridges?  My lust for the P900 is fading, sanity may return.

Richard Southworth
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Jager

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Re: Epson Surecolor P900 lust
« Reply #58 on: June 30, 2020, 07:50:02 am »

Starter carts are a perfect example of manufacturer obfuscation and hidden cost.  Many buyers of these prosumer photo printers are not even aware that the ink carts that come in the box with the printer have been shortchanged.  The manufacturer - Epson is not alone, but they certainly are front and center with the practice - wants you to drop another half a thousand dollars sooner, not later.

The irony is that "starter" carts ought to have more ink than standard, not less, in order to charge the lines.  Corporate greed, indeed.

The good news is that other improvements notwithstanding - the dedicated photo and matte black lines in the new P900 is certainly welcome - actual print quality improvements are almost certainly going to be incremental, and quite modest.  That won't be a reason to upgrade.

I'll continue to run my older P800.  But my next printer will probably be a Canon Pro-1000.

kers

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Re: Epson Surecolor P900 lust
« Reply #59 on: June 30, 2020, 02:26:09 pm »

i just saw some wilhelm-research info on Epson,Canon and HP inks on Canson paper.
in short : the new Epson inks seems to be better; HP-Vivera still best. Canon has gone down. ( and Canson paper comes out very good)

However as Mark McCormick ( aardenburg-imaging.com) -has pointed out: some colours fade faster than others...  and WilhemResearch does not take that into account the way Mark does.
For instance:the white in Cansons RC paper may turn yellow faster than WIR's values.

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