PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political

[JoeKitchen]

Really? Joe must be doing pretty well. Biden said he was going to raise taxes only on people who make more than $400,000.

I dont believe that for a second.  The Trump tax gave a 20% tax discount on pass through businesses, which my very left wing brother also benefited from that he will never admit to.  I cant see him keeping that. 

I truly feel most Americans will fall for this lie since they dont directly pay taxes, and have it removed by a payroll company before they receive any funds.  When your account tells you you need to write an actual check for $25K to the IRS and you get to watch it get removed from you account, your view on taxes completely changes. 

[Alan Klein]

I don't know Biden's position on the 6.2% payroll deduction for Social Security.  But, if they raise the maximum amount above the current payroll limit of $132,900, people will pay more taxes even if they earn less than $400,000.  Since these deductions are not called income taxes, Biden can be telling the truth about not raising income taxes.  But he'll still be able to get more money from you as your Social Security deductions are increased.  Also, your employer pays more too since they have to match the 6.2%.  If you're self employed or own your little business as let's say a photographer or accountant, you pay the increase of 12.4%. 

[faberryman]

I don't know Biden's position on the 6.2% payroll deduction for Social Security.  But, if they raise the maximum amount above the current payroll limit of $132,900, people will pay more taxes even if they earn less than $400,000.  Since these deductions are not called income taxes, Biden can be telling the truth about not raising income taxes.  But he'll still be able to get more money from you as your Social Security deductions are increased.  Also, your employer pays more too since they have to match the 6.2%.  If you're self employed or own your little business as let's say a photographer or accountant, you pay the increase of 12.4%.

Yeah, I guess if that happens it happens. Hard to argue with that. The corollary to that is that if that doesn’t happen it doesn’t happen. Hard to argue with that either. So I guess that if it happens it happens, and if it doesn’t happen, it doesn’t happen. It’s really pretty straightforward after all. We’ll just have to see if it happens or doesn’t happen. Like you said, you don’t have any idea what Biden’s position is, so anything could happen, or not happen.

I was thinking what would happen, or not happen, if my quarter got jammed in a vending machine. I guess a lot of things could happen or not happen. And the things that could happen or not happen would double if you changed just one small variable, like whether you inserted the quarter with heads to the left or heads to the right. And then there is that whole thing about what would happen or not happen if a butterfly on the other side of the world fluttered his wings before, at the same time as, or after you inserted the quarter with heads to the left or heads to the right. It’s late, so I will give more thought to this in the morning. I wonder what will happen or not happen between now and then.

Is thinking about these what ifs a productive way to spend the valuable time of yourself and others? I wonder what would happen if we did or didn't do it. Wait...I know what happens if we do it, so the real question is what would happen if we don't do it. Maybe everyone should give that a try. Then we would know what would happen or not happen if we did or didn't do it.  When I was three years old, I wondered what would happen or not happen if I did or didn't put my finger in an electrical outlet. Well, I learned not to wonder what if. It's a complete waste of time and somebody could get hurt. But that was a long time ago. Maybe things have changed and I just haven't kept up.

[TechTalk]

I don't know Biden's position on the 6.2% payroll deduction for Social Security.

This statement is correct. But, it won't stop you from commenting on it without first learning something about it.

But, if they raise the maximum amount above the current payroll limit of $132,900, people will pay more taxes even if they earn less than $400,000.

This statement is incorrect. Biden's Social Security tax plan includes what in tax parlance is known as a "donut hole". A tax "donut hole" is essentially a gap in the tax schedule.

In this case, Biden's plan would have a Social Security payroll tax up to the current limit and then a gap of no additional SS tax until you reach $400,000 at which point the SS tax kicks in again, but only on that portion of income above $400,000.

This means that once you hit the current maximum, you pay no more in additional SS taxes as long you stay under $400,000. If you earn say $401,000, you would pay the current limit in SS tax, plus SS tax on the additional $1,000 in earnings above $400,000.

[LesPalenik]

So much for rounding the corner - new records on Oct 23
- 81K cases, 900 deaths in USA
- 15K cases in Czech Republic. That's a small country with 10 million people. Extrapolated to the US population, the number of infections would come to almost 500K in one day.
- 20K cases in UK
- 19K cases in Spain
- 19K cases in Italy
 

[JoeKitchen]

So much for rounding the corner - new records on Oct 23
- 81K cases, 900 deaths in USA
- 15K cases in Czech Republic. That's a small country with 10 million people. Extrapolated to the US population, the number of infections would come to almost 500K in one day.
- 20K cases in UK
- 19K cases in Spain
- 19K cases in Italy

So?  What's your point?

Everyone is going to get this and there is nothing governments can do to stop it.  This has been shown in every country, all of them getting a resurgence.

[LesPalenik]

My point was that Trump keeps saying - everything is going to be OK, we are rounding the corner, while the covid keeps getting worse.
The only way to beat is to institute strict measures early like in New Zealand.

[Alan Klein]

So?  What's your point?

Everyone is going to get this and there is nothing governments can do to stop it.  This has been shown in every country, all of them getting a resurgence.

What's interesting is what I heard democratic Gov Cuomo of NY say early on.  He said that 80% of the people are going to get it.  Then he shut up and never repeated that comment again.  I think he was right.  Unless we get a vaccine first, then it won't happen.  Plus, medical care would be better later reducing deaths from it.
Our own SLobodan predicted the same thing way back when.  Pay now or pay later.

We can't stay hidden forever.  Once we come out, it starts spreading again because it's waiting quietly to get passed on to other victims until herd immunity level is reached, some say at 60% or so.  With less new victims to jump to, it dies out.   So it has to work its way through the community until then.  All we're doing is slowing it down for its next run.  This is scary for old guys like me.  WE have to stay hidden and protected until a vaccine can get the immune level up.  Meanwhile, economies around the globe are going to crash.  We're damned if we do and damned if we don't.

[Alan Klein]

So much for rounding the corner - new records on Oct 23
- 81K cases, 900 deaths in USA
- 15K cases in Czech Republic. That's a small country with 10 million people. Extrapolated to the US population, the number of infections would come to almost 500K in one day.
- 20K cases in UK
- 19K cases in Spain
- 19K cases in Italy
 

Equivalents cases based on USA population are: (draw your own conclusions)
81K USA
451K Czech Republic (corrected)
97K UK
134K Spain
105K Italy

[faberryman]

I truly feel most Americans will fall for this lie...

Probably half will and half won't. That pretty much describes the way of the world right now. When people find that it is a lie, some people will call it a lie, but some people will call it an exaggeration or an aspirational statement, and we are off to the races.

[Alan Klein]

My point was that Trump keeps saying - everything is going to be OK, we are rounding the corner, while the covid keeps getting worse.
The only way to beat is to institute strict measures early like in New Zealand.

Early has passed.  Any other suggestions? 

[faberryman]

Pay now or pay later.

You say that a lot. Some people say that and shrug their shoulders, likes it is an inevitability. Others will think about it, and try to figure out how to avoid having to pay now or pay later.

[faberryman]

We're damned if we do and damned if we don't.

Like I was saying, if that is the case, there is no reason to worry about it happening or not because there is nothing we can do about it either way. Probably better to get back to mowing the lawn so we can say we accomplished something today.

[faberryman]

We can't stay hidden forever.  Once we come out, it starts spreading again because it's waiting quietly to get passed on to other victims until herd immunity level is reached, some say at 60% or so.  With less new victims to jump to, it dies out.   So it has to work its way through the community until then.  All we're doing is slowing it down for its next run.  This is scary for old guys like me.  WE have to stay hidden and protected until a vaccine can get the immune level up.  Meanwhile, economies around the globe are going to crash.  We're damned if we do and damned if we don't.

Yeah, I read that the other day that a guy in Colorado got the bubonic plague. You'd think we would have developed herd immunity by now. It has been, what, 500 or so years since the Chinese deliberately introduced that into Europe so that they could be masters of the universe.

[LesPalenik]

Early has passed.  Any other suggestions? 

It's never too late. Most countries re-instituted mask wearing and store closures.
Alternatively, you can do as Trump tells you.

[LesPalenik]

Equivalents cases based on USA population are: (draw your own conclusions)
81K USA
451K Czech Republic (corrected)
97K UK
134K Spain
105K Italy

More equivalent comparisons:
23K Canada
0.6K New Zealand
1.5K Japan

[Alan Klein]

You say that a lot. Some people say that and shrug their shoulders, likes it is an inevitability. Others will think about it, and try to figure out how to avoid having to pay now or pay later.

The point is some things you have to pay for regardless of your delays. Been there; done that.  Most people have been there.  Usually you pay more the later you wait. If we have to reach herd immunity before this things ends, then we might as well get it over with so we don't also screw up our economies and make it worse.  Then you pay more later. 

[Alan Klein]

It's never too late. Most countries re-instituted mask wearing and store closures.
Alternatively, you can do as Trump tells you.

Check my avatar.  I do what makes sense to me.  I don't listen to Trump. In any case, it's the governors of the states that set the rules, when and when to wear masks and when stores can open.  Blaming or crediting Trump is just about the election.  He has little to do with it.   
Here're the current rules regarding which businesses can reopen for my state of New Jersey and what safety protocols they have to follow.  It is issued by Gov. Murphy, a Democrat.  I copied a few.  You can see the rest on the linked page. I didn't copy the protocols for each type establishment as they were too voluminous.

BUSINESSES THAT REMAIN CLOSED

Shared space tutoring service facilities remain closed to students and clients. Tutoring services may offer remote learning.

Adult Day Care Centers remain closed.

Note: Any establishment open to the public, including bars and restaurants, must cordon off any indoor or outdoor dance floors to the public.

BUSINESSES THAT MAY OPEN

Workplaces that do not have walk-in customers or products for sale, including office spaces, were never closed, but must allow employees to work remotely if their job can be performed remotely. At a minimum, businesses must have policies that require individuals to wear face coverings indoors when in close contact with others for long periods of time, and are strongly encouraged to follow safety and sanitization protocols.

Retail businesses and indoor portions of retail shopping malls may open to customers, while following required mitigation requirements.

Bars and restaurants may reopen while following appropriate safety and sanitization protocols.

Etc.
https://covid19.nj.gov/faqs/nj-information/reopening-guidance-and-restrictions/what-rules-or-safety-guidelines-are-in-place-for-reopened-businesses-are-any-businesses-closed

[faberryman]

The point is some things you have to pay for regardless of your delays. Been there; done that.  Most people have been there.  Usually you pay more the later you wait. If we have to reach herd immunity before this things ends, then we might as well get it over with so we don't also screw up our economies and make it worse.  Then you pay more later.

You are absolutely right. You can usually get a discount if you pay in advance. Sometimes though a guy will actually make you pay in advance, with no discount, because he thinks you are a credit risk. That's happened before to me too.  And to Trump. Like I said a couple of posts ago, it might happen or it might not happen, you never know. That's the reason I always carry a blank check in my wallet. Besides, it gives you a couple of extra days to get down to the bank to cover it.

[faberryman]

I don't listen to Trump.

I thought you told me that you watched the debate and said he won, but maybe I am thinking about somebody else. If you don't listen to him, you must read a lot about him, because you are always telling us what a great guy he is and that he has done a lot of fabulous stuff. You must listen to Biden too, because you said he lost the debate and is a scumbag or words to that effect, and that he hasn't done anything in forty seven years except the crime bill.