PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political

[TechTalk]

You realize what you read is mainly fake news.

Fake news is an indoctrination mantra invented by Dear Leader for the faithful to meditate on and repeat as often as possible in order to condition the mind to accept what Dear Leader says ("alternative facts") and reject evidence that conflicts. If Dear Leader says that he closed the border to travel from China and saved hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions, of lives don't listen to anyone else, trust the words of Dear Leader. The same applies to all other claims from Dear Leader. He said again last night that he passed the Veterans Choice Program. Even though the Fake News will tell you that it was passed in 2014, believe Dear Leader instead.

There was no ban. There were restrictions that reduced travel from China, but tens of thousands still entered the US from China in just the first month after the restrictions and the virus was already in the US by that time. Travel restrictions may help to delay the spread of a pandemic virus, but need to be backed by a comprehensive national strategy for testing, tracing, and containment to have more than a minimal effect. For those that are so inclined, don't read this part; just close your eyes and repeat Fake news, Fake News, Fake News. There... you feel better now don't you.

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/03/the-facts-on-trumps-travel-restrictions/

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-nsc/as-trump-administration-debated-travel-restrictions-thousands-streamed-in-from-china

https://apnews.com/AP FACT CHECK: Trump’s inaccurate boasts on China travel ban

[faberryman]

You called Trump stupid.  That's just a put down, name calling.  A plagiarist is not the same.  Biden stole from others and admitted it. Just like Trump cheating on his golf score is not an ad hominem attack.  Both cheating and plagiarizing are legitimate activities describing what people did.

As other have suggested, you need to read up on the logical fallacy ad hominem. You apparently don't know what it means or how it is used.

And when did cheating at golf and plagiarizing become "legitimate activities". Perhaps you could provide a link for that.

[Alan Klein]

I don't think I've made a secret about being from the UK. Has Trump done something to hurt my country? Probably. But not as much as he's hurt yours.

(It has happened that someone from a forum tried to get me into trouble with my employer which is why I don't agree with requiring real names)

I think first names are sufficient and I understand.  I hate when someone uses like 4575 Photonut.  When you want to respond, what are you supposed to call them?  First name is enough.  Countries too.  Because it may define the reason for their opinion.  You know where the person is coming from in their beliefs or when they describes things whether politics or photography.   Imagine if someone posts German cameras are better than Japanese cameras and they're from Japan.  Well, that says something you'd want to explore with them.    If someone says something about Brexit, it has a different weight if they're British rather than 5000 miles away here in America. 

[Alan Klein]

As other have suggested, you need to read up on the term ad hominem. You apparently don't know what it means or how it is used.

And when did cheating at golf and plagiarizing become "legitimate activities". Perhaps you could provide a link for that.

Calling someone stupid as you have is trying to invalidate what they said.  That's ad hominem. 

Legitimate was a word I was going to change.  By it I meant it was an (legitimate) activity as opposed to stupid which is not an activity just a word to make someone look unintelligent.  Obviously cheating and plagiarizing are neither moral or legal in many places. On the other hand, I'm not a golfer. But I hear that making adjustments to your tally is a standard pastime for many golfers, of course not including any one in this thread. 

[faberryman]

I think first names are sufficient and I understand.  I hate when someone uses like 4575 Photonut.  When you want to respond, what are you supposed to call them?  First name is enough.  Countries too.  Because it may define the reason for their opinion.  You know where the person is coming from in their beliefs or when they describes things whether politics or photography.   Imagine if someone posts German cameras are better than Japanese cameras and they're from Japan.  Well, that says something you'd want to explore with them.    If someone says something about Brexit, it has a different weight if they're British rather than 5000 miles away here in America.

No. It is just a convenient way for you to stick someone in a box, and saddle them with all your biases and prejudices.

[faberryman]

Calling someone stupid as you have is trying to invalidate what they said.  That's ad hominem.

Nope.

[Alan Klein]

No. It is just a convenient way for you to stick someone in a box, and saddle them with all your biases and prejudices.

We all have biases and most of us are patriotic to our respective countries.  I respect both those things.  However, taking a patriotic position for your country and while you bang another's and not revealing it, does not allow others to understand your possible motives. If you hide them, I'll call you out on it because you're not being upfront about who you are and what you want. 

If someone was a rep for Nikon, and posted how great Nikons are without revealing his affiliation, we would all be upset for his lack of forthrightness.  The same goes about politics when you're effected.  Where you're from should be revealed so we can make an informed assessment of your position.   

[John Camp]

Fake news is an indoctrination mantra invented by Dear Leader for the faithful to meditate on and repeat as often as possible in order to condition the mind to accept what Dear Leader says ("alternative facts") and reject evidence that conflicts.
<Big snip>

I think what happens here is that "news" comes from what should be, or appears to be, or sells itself as, an authoritative source, be it Trump, Biden, CNN, Fox, or Qanon. Nobody can keep the huge mass of "news" in their heads at all times, so what we keep are snippets, and usually snippets that we want to believe or that fit with our world view. "Covid-19 is no worse than the flu," "Immigrants are bad," "cities are burning," "Portland is a disaster zone," "Antifa is coming to our (tiny, insignificant, rural) town to burn it down," and so on.

So we carry these facts around in our head. They're not really "Dear Leader's" facts, they're OUR facts now. And nobody wants to be proven wrong, and we fiercely resist it. Take Trump's whole "Cities are burning" meme. Go outside, look at your city. Is it burning? No. Go outside in Portland. You see any burning? No. The worst of the violence in Minneapolis, which was bad, involved a few streets  in south Minneapolis and on University Avenue between Minneapolis and St. Paul. There are three million people in the Twin Cities --  if you were an average resident of those cities, you would have had to get in your car and go looking for the trouble to find it.

Somewhere in one of these threads, I said something stupid about the Electoral College, and was corrected. I immediately went into full research mode to prove that I was right, and conclusively proved that I was wrong. I resisted that conclusion as long as possible, but...I was wrong. I think many people have neither the time nor the inclination to do that. So they get a "fact" that fits with their personal views on something, and they cling to it. When it becomes undeniably obvious that they're wrong, they go the the post-modern defense of there are no facts, there are only opinions. Global warming is an opinion, not a fact. Or, it's only a "theory," with no understanding of the meaning of "theory" when used in science. Or "The experts are always proven wrong," so whatever an expert says today, will be proven wrong tomorrow, so today we should ignore them -- this without understanding exactly what experts do.

Our biggest problem is that people with these "facts" in their heads are going to elect the next President.

 

[faberryman]

We all have biases and most of us are patriotic to our respective countries.  I respect both those things.  However, taking a patriotic position for your country and while you bang another's and not revealing it, does not allow others to understand your possible motives. If you hide them, I'll call you out on it because you're not being upfront about who you are and what you want. 

If someone was a rep for Nikon, and posted how great Nikons are without revealing his affiliation, we would all be upset for his lack of forthrightness.  The same goes about politics when you're effected.  Where you're from should be revealed so we can make an informed assessment of your position.   

I think that probably accurately reflects you thought process. I'll demur.

[Alan Klein]

I think what happens here is that "news" comes from what should be, or appears to be, or sells itself as, an authoritative source, be it Trump, Biden, CNN, Fox, or Qanon. Nobody can keep the huge mass of "news" in their heads at all times, so what we keep are snippets, and usually snippets that we want to believe or that fit with our world view. "Covid-19 is no worse than the flu," "Immigrants are bad," "cities are burning," "Portland is a disaster zone," "Antifa is coming to our (tiny, insignificant, rural) town to burn it down," and so on.

So we carry these facts around in our head. They're not really "Dear Leader's" facts, they're OUR facts now. And nobody wants to be proven wrong, and we fiercely resist it. Take Trump's whole "Cities are burning" meme. Go outside, look at your city. Is it burning? No. Go outside in Portland. You see any burning? No. The worst of the violence in Minneapolis, which was bad, involved a few streets  in south Minneapolis and on University Avenue between Minneapolis and St. Paul. There are three million people in the Twin Cities --  if you were an average resident of those cities, you would have had to get in your car and go looking for the trouble to find it.

Somewhere in one of these threads, I said something stupid about the Electoral College, and was corrected. I immediately went into full research mode to prove that I was right, and conclusively proved that I was wrong. I resisted that conclusion as long as possible, but...I was wrong. I think many people have neither the time nor the inclination to do that. So they get a "fact" that fits with their personal views on something, and they cling to it. When it becomes undeniably obvious that they're wrong, they go the the post-modern defense of there are no facts, there are only opinions. Global warming is an opinion, not a fact. Or, it's only a "theory," with no understanding of the meaning of "theory" when used in science. Or "The experts are always proven wrong," so whatever an expert says today, will be proven wrong tomorrow, so today we should ignore them -- this without understanding exactly what experts do.

Our biggest problem is that people with these "facts" in their heads are going to elect the next President.

 

Fake news is not the spin offered by politicians.  Both republicans and democrats spin just as defense attorneys and prosecutors spin to the jury.  However, we expect the media to report the trial correctly.  Unfortunately, most media report political news in a biased way. That's fake news. 95% of the media is left, Democrat and anti-Trump.  So most of the fake news follows suit.

[faberryman]

Fake news is not the spin offered by politicians.  Both republicans and democrats spin just as defense attorneys and prosecutors spin to the jury.  However, we expect the media to report the trial correctly.  Unfortunately, most media report political news in a biased way. That's fake news. 95% of the media is left, Democrat and anti-Trump.  So most of the fake news follows suit.

Sounds like one of those "facts" John was describing.

[chez]

People aren't stupid if they have different viewpoints and standards than you do.  Thinking independently often takes courage, intelligence and discernment.

No...not stupid, just Covidiots following Chetos lead.

[William Walker]

...talking of stupid...apparently this is the latest joke in Europe:

Question: What borders on stupidity?

Answer: Canada and Mexico...

[Peter McLennan]

The result of the tariff is that Canada is selling its aluminum elsewhere and Americans are paying more for products containing aluminum, like beer cans and Jiffy Pop.

And jet fighters.

[Alan Klein]

And jet fighters.

So why are you for Biden if he'll be tougher on Canada than Trump? Does anyone really want to negotiate with Trump rather than Biden? I wouldn't although I worked for a company that did.  We were at our lowest offer with his chief purchasing agent for equipment in a building he was constructing.  Then, at the end, he got on the phone and demanding another ten percent.  We couldn't do it.  WE already dropped our pants. So he gave it to Siemens a German company over an American one.  Of course he wasn't president then.  The truth is Boden will be walked over by most nations.  That;s why foreigners are against Trump.   He gives squat in a negotiation. Great for America.  Not so great for others. 

[BobShaw]

...talking of stupid...apparently this is the latest joke in Europe:

Question: What borders on stupidity?

Answer: Canada and Mexico...

As the US passes 6 million cases it is hard to argue with that.
There is no plan other than to blame someone else.

[kers]

So why are you for Biden if he'll be tougher on Canada than Trump? Does anyone really want to negotiate with Trump rather than Biden? I wouldn't although I worked for a company that did.  We were at our lowest offer with his chief purchasing agent for equipment in a building he was constructing.  Then, at the end, he got on the phone and demanding another ten percent.  We couldn't do it.  WE already dropped our pants. So he gave it to Siemens a German company over an American one.  Of course he wasn't president then.  The truth is Boden will be walked over by most nations.  That;s why foreigners are against Trump.   He gives squat in a negotiation. Great for America.  Not so great for others.

I am sure Biden wil not be walked over by North Korea, Russia and China .
I am sure Biden can't do worse on Covid, and the subsequent failing economy and 180.000+ victims
I am sure Trump will not be re-elected by the US citizen. He never was elected by them.
The majority of the Americans are against Trump - not only foreigners.

[Peter McLennan]

...I hear that making adjustments to your tally is a standard pastime for many golfers, of course not including any one in this thread. 

That statement carries as much weight as the ones Trump makes when he says "People are saying..."  or "Everybody knows that so and so..."

IE, no weight whatsoever. Weasel words.

Those who cheat at golf are cheaters.  Full stop.

[Peter McLennan]

So why are you for Biden if he'll be tougher on Canada than Trump?

Because my interests and affiliations are not directly and solely connected to my pocketbook.

[Chris Kern]

First name is enough.  Countries too.  Because it may define the reason for their opinion.  You know where the person is coming from in their beliefs or when they describes things whether politics or photography.

We don't agree on much, but I think this is a good point.  Especially with regard to this thread, where, at least to some extent, where you stand may depend on where you sit.  I'm repeating myself, but I think it would be useful if those posting here would at least fill out the Location field in their respective user profiles.