PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political

[hogloff]

That's why I eat steak.

As long as the steak is not from a mad cow.

[faberryman]

That's why I eat steak.

I thought all the meat packing plants had terrible outbreaks of coronavirus among the workers. Trump signed some sort of executive order to keep them open anyway. Why would you eat steak?

[Alan Klein]

I thought all the meat packing plants had terrible outbreaks of coronavirus among the workers. Trump signed some sort of executive order to keep them open anyway. Why would you eat steak?

Well, it's obviously more healthy than fish.

[LesPalenik]

Well, it's obviously more healthy than fish.

Alan, you forgot to add one of those yellow circles.

[faberryman]

Well, it's obviously more healthy than fish.

In New Zealand. We don't have any idea here.

[Alan Klein]

In New Zealand. We don't have any idea here.

I just ordered New Zealand lamb chops from my supermarket.  But they ran out.  I'll have to start eating fish. But not the frozen kind. 

[jeremyrh]

That's why I eat steak.

US steak? All those hormones you'll be growing boobs!

[faberryman]

In COVID news, school opened yesterday. We have our first teacher test positive today, probably caught it Monday during teacher training. Obviously other teachers were there too. I don't know how many they quarantined. Let's give it a couple of days for the other teachers to become symptomatic and see if the whole district goes virtual. It's not like they have an phalanx of substitute teachers ready to fill the gaps in the line.

[faberryman]

First Fauci was out. Now Birx is out. Apparently she said something Trump thought was "pathetic". Trump's new COVID doctor is a radiologist, Charles Atlas. Oops, Scott Atlas. I am not sure how this fits in with that whole light and disinfectant thing.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/mattperez/2020/08/12/who-is-dr-scott-atlas-trumps-new-covid-health-adviser-seen-as-counter-to-fauci-and-birx/#1dcb1cd020a4

I guess it doesn't really matter. Trump’s been out of the pandemic business for a while. He has demoted himself to Press Secretary.

[James Clark]

First Fauci was out. Now Birx is out. Apparently she said something Trump thought was "pathetic". Trump's new COVID doctor is a radiologist, Charles Atlas. Oops, Scott Atlas. I am not sure how this fits in with that whole light and disinfectant thing.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/mattperez/2020/08/12/who-is-dr-scott-atlas-trumps-new-covid-health-adviser-seen-as-counter-to-fauci-and-birx/#1dcb1cd020a4

I guess it doesn't really matter. Trump’s been out of the pandemic business for a while. He has demoted himself to Press Secretary.

You’re looking at it all wrong.  We’re gonna get some really sweet pictures of the virus now - perfect for writing on with a sharpie!

[JoeKitchen]

First Fauci was out. Now Birx is out. Apparently she said something Trump thought was "pathetic". Trump's new COVID doctor is a radiologist, Charles Atlas. Oops, Scott Atlas. I am not sure how this fits in with that whole light and disinfectant thing.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/mattperez/2020/08/12/who-is-dr-scott-atlas-trumps-new-covid-health-adviser-seen-as-counter-to-fauci-and-birx/#1dcb1cd020a4

I guess it doesn't really matter. Trump’s been out of the pandemic business for a while. He has demoted himself to Press Secretary.

Come on now, Fauci has no credibility left.  He's been wrong plenty of times, never take responsibility for it, and seems more concerned of late to hang out with celebrities.  Maybe that was why Trump liked him so much initially. 

Not to mention his "NY did it right" quote is a head-scratcher.  NY handled this the worse out of any state.  They have the highest number of dead, the 2nd highest death rate in the world (with NJ at number one) Cuomo initially acted with hubris scoffing at the virus, refusing to do any mitigation measures for 8 days, their C-19 curve looks exactly like the curve we were told to avoid, Cuomo put the elderly back into nursing homes and goaded 4 other states to follow his lead.  And now he is refusing to allow an independent audit to review how they handled the nursing homes plus it is coming to light they may be hiding a few 1000 extra deaths from nursing homes from the public. 

You cant look at that as an objectionable scientist and say "they did it right."  Fauci has lost my trust; it is apparent he is past his prime and should be replaced with someone better.  That is not say Atlas is that man, but Fauci needs to go.  Ever since that NY quote, I dont take anything he says seriously. 

[jeremyrh]

Since you're here, Joe, maybe you can explain to us the Libertarian approach to pandemics?  - let everyone drop dead on their own, I imagine?

[JoeKitchen]

Since you're here, Joe, maybe you can explain to us the Libertarian approach to pandemics?  - let everyone drop dead on their own, I imagine?

... vs. let everyone drop dead in the hospital on their own?   

Coronavirus Patients Are Dying Alone, Leaving Loved Ones With Grief And Guilt

I would largely take the Sweden approach, giving out recommendations on what to do with some added regulations, but large rely on public trust.  I would also add in protecting the nursing homes. 

Which is very much like the DeSantas approach, that worked very well.  FL death rate is still a 1/10 of NY with an older more vulnerable population. 

The simple fact is what we are doing is not sustainable, but what Sweden did is very sustainable.  I know you think the government can just print money non-stop and keep us hunkered down for ever until it is over, but you should come back to reality every now and then.  Not to mention we are talking about a highly survivable virus that the overwhelming majority catch without ever knowing it. 

Plus, when you do this stuff for 151 days (that is how long it has been in the USA since we started this BS) you end up with people like, who just dont give a damn anymore.  I'm not pausing my life anymore for this, and I'm traveling to TX this month to investigate opening a second studio location.  I think the Blue states will crater due to all of the lock down BS, so I am looking to Dallas as a new source of business. 

I also would like to add, insofar as Sweden is concerned, what they did is showing great promise.  Their C-19 cases are at an all time low and it appears like they have reached herd immunity.  All the evidence is pointing to that only 20% of the population needs to catch this for herd immunity to develop, just like with the Spanish Flu of 1918.  The theory is since the common cold is a corona virus, if you had gotten sick in the last year, the t-cell immunity you developed to fight that off works on C-19 as well.  This would cover about 50% of the population, meaning you only need an additional 20% points to reach herd immunity.

[jeremyrh]

.
I would largely take the Sweden approach,

First time I've seen Sweden taken as an example of libertarianism, but I guess any straw looks good to grasp onto.  Back on Planet Earth, Sweden has a highly socialised health system and social support network, as far from the wet dreams of Ayn Rand-reading teenagers as can possible be imagined.

[JoeKitchen]

First time I've seen Sweden taken as an example of libertarianism, but I guess any straw looks good to grasp onto.  Back on Planet Earth, Sweden has a highly socialised health system and social support network, as far from the wet dreams of Ayn Rand-reading teenagers as can possible be imagined.

First, Ayn Rand is largely dismissed by the right here in the USA.  She's almost only used by the left as a boogie man for left wingers who are too indoctrinated to actually read about conservatism, and she is not taken seriously amongst many conservatives.

Second, Sweden may not be a libertarian state, but they took a very libertarian approach to handling the virus, which is what you asked me about, the approach.  Sweden's approach gave a lot more freedom to its people then any other country I read about. 

So yes, Sweden fits perfectly insofar as a libertarian solution to this.  If you disagree, please tell which country gave more freedoms to this citizens.  Sweden did not even have a lock down or requires masks. 

[jeremyrh]

Second, Sweden may not be a libertarian state, but they took a very libertarian approach to handling the virus.  Sweden's approach gave a lot more freedom to its people then any other country I read about. 

So yes, Sweden fits perfectly insofar as a libertarian solution to this.  If you disagree, please tell which country gave more freedoms to this citizens.  Sweden did not even have a lock down or requires masks.

But you miss the point that Sweden was only able to take this approach because of all the other non-libertard systems it has in place. Brazil might be a better example of a libertarian response.

[JoeKitchen]

But you miss the point that Sweden was only able to take this approach because of all the other non-libertard systems it has in place. Brazil might be a better example of a libertarian response.

We have a better healthcare system then Sweden, and the USA government covered all Covid related expenses.  So, that really is a moot point.  And if it mattered so much, Italy, with a nationalized health care system should have never been hit as hard as it was. 

Your argument holds no water.  The method of a developed country's healthcare matters not; although in a country like Brazil, which is a disaster to begin with, it may matter more. 

Sweden was able to make this approach because they did not give into hysteria over a virus where you have a near certainty of survival if you're under 60.  That is why they were able to come to this decision. 

PS
And if you listen to anyone in Sweden that was involved in this decision, the state of the national healthcare system was not even considered in their decisions.  They always talk about what is sustainable vs. what is not, and what will people except vs what will they not.  Economically, what they did is sustainable and will not drive people crazy, the opposite of what we (non-Swedes) are doing. 

[jeremyrh]

We have a better healthcare system then Sweden,

According to what metric?

and the USA government covered all Covid related expenses. 

Clearly not, as the current discussion about unemployment benefits demonstrates

You aren't responding to my question, which is how a libertarian society would have responded to Covid.  You advanced Sweden as an example, which is beyond ludicrous. Want another go? How does Brazil not fit the bill?  Someone once argued that Zimbabwe was an example of libertarian success - maybe chec that out?

[JoeKitchen]

According to what metric?

Clearly not, as the current discussion about unemployment benefits demonstrates

You aren't responding to my question, which is how a libertarian society would have responded to Covid.  You advanced Sweden as an example, which is beyond ludicrous. Want another go? How does Brazil not fit the bill?  Someone once argued that Zimbabwe was an example of libertarian success - maybe chec that out?

Straw Man much?   

You started off talking about the healthcare system, and now insist on expending it to the unemployment system as well.   LOL

Shall we start talking about every specific bill and law that makes up the governance of every country on earth?  And insofar as Zimbabwe is concerned, who is that someone?  If you cant tell me who that someone is, I dont care, because someone could be anyone, including a leftie like you just trying to screw around. 

And I did respond to your question, explaining exactly how a libertarian country would respond.  Now, if you want to get into how that country would fair afterwards, that is a totally  different question that would rely on a multitude of other factors that would have nothing to do with the pandemic, and would involve a lot of nuance you clearly want to overlook. 

[Robert Roaldi]

Come on now, Fauci has no credibility left.  He's been wrong plenty of times, never take responsibility for it, ...

Does this mean anything? But taking it at face value, Trump fits that criteria 1000-fold.