PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political

[Craig Lamson]

The US is about to pass France's deaths per million of 462. That was the country everyone said got is wrong.
France had 10 deaths yesterday, the US 1141.
So they may have got it wrong but they fixed it.

We have a LOT of idiots here, who decided that Coivd was nothing to worry about.  They simply said screw it.  Now we have a surge.  Who could have imagined?  And in before the Trumps fault thing starts.  The vast majority of the new cases are young people, who by and large would not do anything Trump told them to do...or not.

[hogloff]

They can help with money, but like the Covid thing the states control what forces can be used.  Welcome to America.

What about bringing in the federal police or army to help restore the places. Fema's response was pathetic to both New Orleans and Puerto Rico.

[hogloff]

We have a LOT of idiots here, who decided that Coivd was nothing to worry about.  They simply said screw it.  Now we have a surge.  Who could have imagined?  And in before the Trumps fault thing starts.  The vast majority of the new cases are young people, who by and large would not do anything Trump told them to do...or not.

It's amazing what strong leadership from the top does. A weak leader...no one listens to that idiot. A strong leader and even those idiots listen.

[Alan Klein]

What about bringing in the federal police or army to help restore the places. Fema's response was pathetic to both New Orleans and Puerto Rico.

Americans help each other during disasters crossing state lines to assist.  But no one want to be policed by strangers.  So local crime is handled by cops from the general community who know the community.  The Feds like the FBI get involved in Federal crimes like income tax evasions, drugs, terrorism, spying, and sometimes assist in crimes crossing state lines.  But they don;t get involved in general policing like traffic, burglary, holdups, murder, theft, assaults, etc.

FEMA's not a police agency.   They provide disaster relief assistance to local authorities.  Unfortunately, the local governments in New Orleans and Puerto Rico are very corrupt.  The New Orleans mayor eventually went to jail for corruption. Neither were prepared before the hurricanes and did awful jobs helping their own people afterwards.  Of course, it was convenient to blame the Federal government for their own inadequacies.  Just like NY State blamed the Feds for the lack of PPE equipment needed for Covid 19.

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

What about bringing in the federal police or army to help restore the places. Fema's response was pathetic to both New Orleans and Puerto Rico.

That's why Trump wanted to sell Puerto Rico. In his opinion it only added to the cost.

[Alan Klein]

That's why Trump wanted to sell Puerto Rico. In his opinion it only added to the cost.

Puerto Ricans don't pay federal income taxes.  So it costs America a lot of money to take care of them and they don't contribute to that cost. 

Every few years, Puerto Ricans have a vote whether they want to become a state, remain a Commonwealth (leftover from when we won the Spanish American  War of 1898, freed Cuba and the Phillipines and wound up with P.R.), or become an independent country. They've always chosen to stay a Commonwealth and get the best of all worlds: American protection and no taxes. 

[Alan Klein]

Sort of like the Dutch bailing out the Greeks.  I'm sure you're happy about that. 

[Craig Lamson]

It's amazing what strong leadership from the top does. A weak leader...no one listens to that idiot. A strong leader and even those idiots listen.

Dreamer...

[Craig Lamson]

What about bringing in the federal police or army to help restore the places. Fema's response was pathetic to both New Orleans and Puerto Rico.

The law....You gotta ask that question to those in charge of the places affected.   Constitutional Democratic Federal Republic...

[Robert Roaldi]

Puerto Ricans don't pay federal income taxes.  So it costs America a lot of money to take care of them and they don't contribute to that cost. 

Every few years, Puerto Ricans have a vote whether they want to become a state, remain a Commonwealth (leftover from when we won the Spanish American  War of 1898, freed Cuba and the Phillipines and wound up with P.R.), or become an independent country. They've always chosen to stay a Commonwealth and get the best of all worlds: American protection and no taxes.

Why continue to hang onto it then if it's such a burden?

[faberryman]

They've always chosen to stay a Commonwealth and get the best of all worlds: American protection and no taxes.

I don't remember reading any stories in the last half century about anyone threatening to invade Puerto Rico, but I may have missed them. What protection exactly is Puerto Rico getting out of the deal? Oh, Fort Buchanan.

"There are currently two units hosted at Fort Buchanan – the inspector general and the contracting agency. Although they deal and are operated by military personnel, they don’t really have any military objectives or purposes. They were generally created to maintain the post ready for any potential danger."

https://militarybases.com/overseas/puerto-rico/fort-buchanan/

Given the amount of time it took navy ships to get to Puerto Rico with hurricane aid, it's not exactly like a rapid response task force. I don't see why we would want to spend "American lives and treasure" to defend it anyway. That money would be much better spent on adventures in the Middle East.

Here is a short opinion piece about Puerto Rico and American citizenship.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/puerto-ricans-are-hardly-us-citizens-they-are-colonial-subjects/2017/12/13/c0f1c700-de9f-11e7-89e8-edec16379010_story.html

Seems like Puerto Ricans never asked for American citizenship, it was imposed on them. Puerto Ricans don't get to vote for President and don't have representation in the House or Senate. I remember something about no taxation without representation being a thing once. Probably just an anachronism now. Tea anyone?

[Alan Klein]

Why continue to hang onto it then if it's such a burden?

It's a nice place to vacation, they use American dollars, and you don't need a passport.    Actually, their political status is complicated.  Most American including Congress feel that they should decide what they want to do.  So far, they've voted to remain a US territory rather than becoming a state or their own country.  (The U.S. has five permanently inhabited territories: Puerto Rico and the U.S. Virgin Islands in the Caribbean Sea, Guam and the Northern Mariana Islands in the North Pacific Ocean, and American Samoa in the South Pacific Ocean.)

Political status of Puerto Rico.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_status_of_Puerto_Rico#:~:text=The%20United%20States%20acquired%20the,after%20the%20Spanish%E2%80%93American%20War.&text=As%20a%20result%20of%20Puerto,in%20the%20U.S.%20Federal%20government.

US Terrorories:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territories_of_the_United_States#:~:text=Four%2C%20section%203.-,Permanently%20inhabited%20territories,in%20the%20South%20Pacific%20Ocean.

[Robert Roaldi]

It's a nice place to vacation, they use American dollars, and you don't need a passport.    Actually, their political status is complicated.  Most American including Congress feel that they should decide what they want to do.  So far, they've voted to remain a US territory rather than becoming a state or their own country.  (The U.S. has five permanently inhabited territories: Puerto Rico and the U.S. Virgin Islands in the Caribbean Sea, Guam and the Northern Mariana Islands in the North Pacific Ocean, and American Samoa in the South Pacific Ocean.)

Political status of Puerto Rico.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_status_of_Puerto_Rico#:~:text=The%20United%20States%20acquired%20the,after%20the%20Spanish%E2%80%93American%20War.&text=As%20a%20result%20of%20Puerto,in%20the%20U.S.%20Federal%20government.

US Terrorories:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territories_of_the_United_States#:~:text=Four%2C%20section%203.-,Permanently%20inhabited%20territories,in%20the%20South%20Pacific%20Ocean.

Sounds like Puerto Rico does not enjoy self-determination as I understand it. So I don't understand the notion that they vote to join or secede. What does that vote mean? If, as you say, most Americans and Congress doesn't want it anymore, can't the US just say, Ok good-bye. Then Puerto Rico will be an independent nation. Is this not the case?

[Alan Klein]

Sounds like Puerto Rico does not enjoy self-determination as I understand it. So I don't understand the notion that they vote to join or secede. What does that vote mean? If, as you say, most Americans and Congress doesn't want it anymore, can't the US just say, Ok good-bye. Then Puerto Rico will be an independent nation. Is this not the case?

I think Congress could just vote them out so to speak.  But it has left it up to Puerto Ricans to vote democratically what they want to do.  Isn't that a fair option? 

[faberryman]

It's a nice place to vacation, they use American dollars, and you don't need a passport.

I heard that a while back.  Do you know if they have the electricity back on?

[Robert Roaldi]

I think Congress could just vote them out so to speak.  But it has left it up to Puerto Ricans to vote democratically what they want to do.  Isn't that a fair option?

I don't know if it's fair or not. To whom, Puerto Rico or the USA?  You implied previously that the fact that they don't pay US federal taxes seems unfair to other Americans. This seems right on the face of it, but are there federal benefits that they then don't enjoy? Or are they getting those benefits without having to contribute?

[Alan Klein]

I heard that a while back.  Do you know if they have the electricity back on?

Yes. 

[Alan Klein]

I don't know if it's fair or not. To whom, Puerto Rico or the USA?  You implied previously that the fact that they don't pay US federal taxes seems unfair to other Americans. This seems right on the face of it, but are there federal benefits that they then don't enjoy? Or are they getting those benefits without having to contribute?

I don't know.  You'll have to research it.

[Alan Klein]

On the other hand I just remembered a situation when we visited a few years back.  We took a sightseeing drive in a bus.  The driver was very proud as are all PR's how they get a lot of social benefits and subsidies from the Federal government.  It probably is the reason they voted to keep their terrority status.  If they became a state or an independent country, they'd have to pay more taxes, wouldn't get American help, have to pay for and man an army, etc.  FEMA wouldn't be available in case another hurricane hits.  There are a lot more benefits remaining a terrority. 

[hogloff]

Dreamer...

Nope, watching it happen in all sorts of countries...strong leadership at the top has these countries totally in control. Idiots at the top like in the USA and Brazil...well you can see the results for yourself. Not really a dream...more like a nightmare.