PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political

[hogloff]

The Federal officers are defending federal property.  It's the people attacking the Federal Government. Not the other way around.

Trump wants to send in the Feds to Chicago because of the murders in that city...not anything to do with protecting the Federal buildings.

[faberryman]

Who says they were not weating identification.  The images I have seen on tv show they had "police" makrings on their uniforms as well aas "badges" for lack of a better term showing what agency they worked for.  As far as unmarked cars, Police do that all of the time as well as going as plain clothes officers.

Yeah, those vests go for $72 on eBay.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Black-Tactical-Raid-Vest-Rugged-Deluxe-SWAT-Police-Vests-w-Lots-of-Pouches/201313628768

I don't know if that particular one has too many pouches. When you are being tear gassed and beaten you might not be able to get an accurate count, so it probably doesn't really matter.

[Alan Klein]

Trump wants to send in the Feds to Chicago because of the murders in that city...not anything to do with protecting the Federal buildings.

He's politically grandstanding.  It's election season. 

Having said that, the Federal government gets itself involved in too many things that should be left to local state and city governments such as education.  The founders of our constitution didn't charge the national government with these duties and specifically said it's up to the states and their residents too decide.  Unfortunately, our Supreme Court has gone along with this power grab from Washington DC. 

[Craig Lamson]

Trump wants to send in the Feds to Chicago because of the murders in that city...not anything to do with protecting the Federal buildings.

Moving the goalposts again Chez...err Hogloff

[Peter McLennan]

And storm troopers sent to Albuquerque, because “Breaking Bad”.

[pschefz]

I said "Whatever" because I didn't understand a word pschefz said nor would I know how to respond to them.  His posts were both incomprehensible.    No thanks,  I'll skip Mary's book.

I get it...I am sure you are a nice guy who has worked hard and been honest and listened to the people who told him to work hard to support the American way and things will be great...I honestly don’t doubt that....
It’s just that you are slowly realizing that you are getting old, the country is not prospering, things aren’t THAT great and its mostly because the people you listened to and believed in really scammed you....the taxes you paid did not make it back into the economy, trickle down economics did and do not work, roads are crap, schools are crap, air is getting pretty bad, water is crap.....and corporations are getting more and more powerful and the 1% is getting further and further away from the 99%....and you are still ok, maybe hopefully your kids are too but you know that the gap is getting too big...
You know that the republican promises aren’t going to help and now the fox heads are screaming that if Biden wins the world really will come to an end because blacks might have a voice and gays and hispanics and you know....normal people! And they might actually get schools and healthcare and somewhat affordable housing....
But i also understand that it is hard to face that what you have been working for all your life really is falling apart and leaves a bad taste because in the end you have been scammed and you know it....

Federal agents are making arrests, dragging people into unmarked vehicles....
It blows my mind that the same people who want local authorities to have the last say when it comes to their own twisted mindset in regard to marriage rights, abortion right, legalizing pot,....now demand militarized federal involvement on a local level...
These cities do not want it because it obviously makes everything worse, i am not sure what is hard to understand about that...
This is such a clear and obvious political stunt, even more obvious since COVID is rampant, trump has been a tremendously spectacular failure in handling it (and still is) and fox really need something to put into their headlines....and what’s better then squashing civil unrest with brute power...

The only good thing is that all of this only helps Biden in November ...Unless we have a military dictatorship by then

[hogloff]

Moving the goalposts again Chez...err Hogloff

That's your usual answer if you don't have one. We are talking about Trump releasing the Feds into democrat cities. You claimed they were there just to protect federal building. Well Trump just claimed he is looking at sending in the troops into Chicago to clean up the murderers and drug dealers.

[hogloff]

The only good thing is that all of this only helps Biden in November ...Unless we have a military dictatorship by then

Don't rule that out. It's working for leaders Trump admires like dictators of Russia, China and North Korea.

[faberryman]

That's your usual answer if you don't have one. We are talking about Trump releasing the Feds into democrat cities. You claimed they were there just to protect federal building. Well Trump just claimed he is looking at sending in the troops into Chicago to clean up the murderers and drug dealers.

Many people say that, unlike a pandemic, which is really a job for state and local government, the federal government is best poised to catch murderers and drug dealers in local communities. Apparently they have all sorts or law enforcement agencies no one has ever heard of to handle the workload. If you don't think the feds are up to job, just read about their many success stories. Portland, for example. As a gesture of good will, in an unprecedented effort to reach across the aisle, Trump is going to tackle Democrat cities first. In the beginning, there will be a few kinks to work out. Officials close to the negotiations say a major sticking point is the road damage reimbursement rate for the use of tanks.

[Peter McLennan]

He's politically grandstanding.  It's election season. 

And that excuses the use of unidentifiable "peace officers" and unmarked vehicles and tear gas and other armaments used on citizens?

And "grandstanding" is an acceptable way of leading your country?

[hogloff]

And that excuses the use of unidentifiable "peace officers" and unmarked vehicles and tear gas and other armaments used on citizens?

And "grandstanding" is an acceptable way of leading your country?

Maybe no one told him this is not reality TV?

[Craig Lamson]

That's your usual answer if you don't have one. We are talking about Trump releasing the Feds into democrat cities. You claimed they were there just to protect federal building. Well Trump just claimed he is looking at sending in the troops into Chicago to clean up the murderers and drug dealers.

No we were talking about the Feds in Portland, which is an markedly different situation than in Chicago.  Are you so ill informed that you don't understand the difference?

In Portland they have jurisdiction (an arguable point) to protect Federal Property even if the state says we don't want you here.

In Chicago, the Feds will have a cooperative role with  local law enforcement and can only act with the express permission of the local government.  They have that from the Mayor of Chicago...reluctantly.

Thanks for playing, better luck next time.

[Craig Lamson]

And that excuses the use of unidentifiable "peace officers" and unmarked vehicles and tear gas and other armaments used on citizens?

And "grandstanding" is an acceptable way of leading your country?

Its completely within the law for Federal law officers NOT to have a name badge on their uniform.  They were identified by the branch of law enforcement that employed them.  Unmarked vehicles are a common law enforcement practice.

When the "citizens" are blinding (perhaps some permanently) law enforcement officers with green lasers for example and among other things, I submit the use of the force as given was much less than could have been levied.   It's completely acceptable, give the conduct of the "citizens".

"Grandstanding" is a political fact of life for all political parties in the US

[Alan Klein]

And that excuses the use of unidentifiable "peace officers" and unmarked vehicles and tear gas and other armaments used on citizens?

And "grandstanding" is an acceptable way of leading your country?

I said it's wrong possibly unconstitutional.  Leave it up to the locals.  If they don't want to police their cities, that's their business.  The only exception is regarding Federal crimes or total insurrection.  Otherwise, local police should handle crime.  Trump is trying to show for the election that he cares about the people even if the local politicians don't.  It's not his problem.

In the end, cities that don't police right will wind up like Detroit.  Businesses and people leave.  The city falls into disrepair. Real estate values collapse. No one will spend their hard earn savings starting a business only to see it fail due to crime or be burned down in a riot.  So the cities hurt themselves for political reasons.  Good luck to them.  Not the country's problem. 

[faberryman]

Unmarked vehicles are a common law enforcement practice.

Yeah, but the unmarked cars used by state and local police never have hubcaps, so everyone knows who they are. The unmarked cars in Portland, at least the ones I saw on TV, had hubcaps. Hardly seems fair.

When the "citizens" are blinding (perhaps some permanently) law enforcement officers with green lasers for example and among other things,

I read about the laser thing at Fox. I'm surprised any of the protesters are able to aim them accurately enough to shine them in the agents' eyes. In the movies those red laser dots on the criminals from the sharpshooters are always jumping around, and those are shoulder mounted with a scope. I have enough trouble holding a flashlight steady to change a fuse in the middle of the night.

I have to give it to the protesters though. Bringing along those leaf blowers to disperse the tear gas was genius.

Speaking of genius, I read somewhere that the protesters were trying to figure out how to cut off the water to the federal building, so that when the federal agents were holed up in there, they wouldn't be able to flush the toilets. We are obviously dealing with criminal masterminds here.

I'd like to give a shout-out to the guy who has set up his bar-b-que rig in the park across the street from the federal building and is feeding the protesters for free. I heard that the the federal agents are stuck using the vending machines in the federal building cafeteria, and it has been a problem for morale.

Seriously, I hope this doesn't escalate and people get killed. I can see it happening.

[Alan Klein]

No we were talking about the Feds in Portland, which is an markedly different situation than in Chicago.  Are you so ill informed that you don't understand the difference?

In Portland they have jurisdiction (an arguable point) to protect Federal Property even if the state says we don't want you here.

In Chicago, the Feds will have a cooperative role with  local law enforcement and can only act with the express permission of the local government.  They have that from the Mayor of Chicago...reluctantly.

Thanks for playing, better luck next time.

I'm surprised the Democrat mayor called for federal help from Trump.  However, does she really need it?  Where is the state government? The Illinois State Police?  Why don't they get off their asses and help?  Federal marshalls should stay out of local crime issues.  The Feds have too much power as it is. 

[Alan Klein]

Yeah, but the unmarked cars used by state and local police never have hubcaps, so everyone knows who the are. The unmarked cars in Portland, at least the ones I saw on TV, had hubcaps. Hardly seems fair.

Hubcaps were a pain in the neck for me especially because of living in NYC.  With all the potholes there, they'd shake loose and you'd lose them.  I'm glad we don't have to deal with them any more.  Why would cop cars have hubcaps? 

[MattBurt]

If they gave me $600 a week, I'd be glad to stay home too.    When you say other countries are doing similar things, what other country is giving people $600 a week or anything like that to not work, more than they get if they were working?  That's just stupid.  I'm paying for that as well.  Why should the government steal money from me and give it to people who'd rather sit home on their asses and not work and spend the money on buying bling for themselves?  This is why socialist countries go broke.

The $600 number is arbitrary and that may need refinement to be more scale-able. For some who lost their jobs it's not enough to pay their bills and for others it's a windfall. Canada is doing something similar but ours will end in a week. I'm pretty sure Canada isn't going broke and I wouldn't really call them a socialist country (unlike the also not broke Scandinavian countries). But Canada is more socialist that we are and I think they have a good balance. With healthcare especially.
I'm sure some spend their money on frivolous purchases but most do not because they need it to pay basic expenses. Some people can't manage their money regardless of the source. Without the assistance others will have to choose between financial survival and safety, with the safety part applying to all of us and not just them. 

Having people gladly stay home is what we need to contain the virus until it is under control via something like a vaccine. That is the purpose.

Anyway I think I'm going to try and give this discussion a rest. Too tiresome and circular.

[Alan Klein]

Over a million more people file for unemployment.  More than expected.  Just in time for another giveaway from the Federal government. The printing presses continue. K-chunk. K-chunk. K-chunk.

Dow falls 354 points as a surprise rise in jobless claims spurs economic worry
https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/stock-market-news-today-indexes-fall-jobless-claims-surprise-economy-2020-7-1029426597?utm_campaign=browser_notification&utm_source=desktop#


Meanwhile, Mnuchin figures 70% of your salary for not working is more than enough.  Meanwhile my dentist can't get dental assistants to come to work to help him because they make more sitting at home than working for a living. K-chunk. K-chunk. K-chunk.

Mnuchin says GOP plan for unemployment extension will be based on ’70% wage replacement’
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/23/coronavirus-stimulus-gop-unemployment-plan-would-have-70percent-wage-replacement.html
 

[faberryman]

Why would cop cars have hubcaps?

The unmarked cars in Portland have hubcaps because the feds are renting them from Enterprise. Who else is Enterprise going to rent to these days?

https://www.wweek.com/news/2020/07/17/federal-officers-appear-to-be-using-rental-cars-from-enterprise-to-snatch-portland-protesters/