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Author Topic: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political  (Read 501621 times)

TechTalk

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #6060 on: July 08, 2020, 01:48:29 pm »

In which case, shouldn't Trump's authoritarian streak worry you?
No because we're protected by the constitution.  Whenever he's strayed from the constitution, as all presidents do, the courts pull him and them back.

So, the Federal Courts, provided by the Constitution, protect us from authoritarian government. Interesting that you should say that.

Unfortunately, the constitution doesn't protect us from the people's stupidity, greed and covetousness. 

So, the Federal Courts protect us from authoritarian government, but the Constitution does not protect us from the people in the society which it governs. I had no idea that your faith in the Federal Court system was so strong or that you felt that the Constitution was so weak in providing protection from our worst impulses.
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Alan Klein

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #6061 on: July 08, 2020, 03:00:49 pm »

I (obviously) disagree.  They can and they do.  It's called "progress".
How is Putin grabbing power until 2036 progress? Or Xi grabbing power for life?  Man hasn't changed. The addiction to power is insatiable hence the constitution's formula to protect the country and people from concentrating power in one person or a group.  Even the Supreme Court has shown its corruption to power.  Hence the Justices need to write laws rather than interpreting the constitution as written.   They think they know better, a symptom of pride and power.

Alan Klein

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #6062 on: July 08, 2020, 03:25:07 pm »

So, the Federal Courts, provided by the Constitution, protect us from authoritarian government. Interesting that you should say that.

So, the Federal Courts protect us from authoritarian government, but the Constitution does not protect us from the people in the society which it governs. I had no idea that your faith in the Federal Court system was so strong or that you felt that the Constitution was so weak in providing protection from our worst impulses.
The Constitution protects minority viewpoints from majority rule with the bill of rights.  But not necessarily from acting foolishly in other ways.  By demanding the government give us "free stuff" yet keeping our taxes low, we bankrupt the treasury and ourselves.  You're a student of the Federalist Papers where they talked about this.  They tried to protect the country from such foolishness by having electors vote for the president.  Also, the election of Senators were originally through the state legislatures.  Now it's by direct vote by the people.   Since people can demand from their elected officials by the power of the election booth, we're reaching the point where the country will be really hurt by printing money for spending.

Actually, the constitution protects us against some of this.  The founders knew that printing money is dangerous.  They lived through the Revolutionary War when the colonies printed Continental  currency to no end.  "Isn't worth a Continental" was an expression used then acknowledging the danger of paper money.  So the founder included in the constitution that required coining.  That meant that gold and silver were to be the money we used.  But the Supreme Court allowed congress and President Nixon to take us off the gold standard.  It allowed the Federal reserve the power to print fiat currency without backing up money.  These things were unconstitutional.  But the Supremes allowed it to happen.  When I was younger, I remember Silver Certificates.  These dollars were redeemable in silver.  There were gold certificates as well.  Long gone.  Today, look at your dollar.  All it says is Federal Reserve Note.  (What do Euors say? Canadian dollars say what?) It's not backed up with anything.  It is only an IOU between me and you.  Of course you'd argue that times have changed.  But they hadn't.  "Isn't worth a dollar" will be a similar cry very soon. 

LesPalenik

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #6063 on: July 08, 2020, 03:29:03 pm »

How is Putin grabbing power until 2036 progress? Or Xi grabbing power for life?  Man hasn't changed. The addiction to power is insatiable hence the constitution's formula to protect the country and people from concentrating power in one person or a group.  Even the Supreme Court has shown its corruption to power.  Hence the Justices need to write laws rather than interpreting the constitution as written.   They think they know better, a symptom of pride and power.

Comparing Putin with his predecessors, he hasn't been so bad - both for Russia and the world. Some alternatives could be worse.
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Alan Klein

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #6064 on: July 08, 2020, 03:32:05 pm »

Comparing Putin with his predecessors, he hasn't been so bad - both for Russia and the world. Some alternatives could be worse.
I was only pointing out that the reach for power in man didn't end with Napoleon.  The constitution is protection against man's base personality that hasn't changed since before Neanderthals. We only dress differently. 

faberryman

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #6065 on: July 08, 2020, 03:41:27 pm »

The constitution is protection against man's base personality that hasn't changed since before Neanderthals. We only dress differently.
I am pretty sure your wife agrees with you on that. Maybe not the constitution part.
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LesPalenik

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #6066 on: July 08, 2020, 03:55:27 pm »

I was only pointing out that the reach for power in man didn't end with Napoleon.  The constitution is protection against man's base personality that hasn't changed since before Neanderthals. We only dress differently.

Looking at the historical data, our dimensions have changed too. We are getting taller, wider and heavier. That will affect also design of new furniture.
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hogloff

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #6067 on: July 08, 2020, 04:03:00 pm »

Looking at the historical data, our dimensions have changed too. We are getting taller, wider and heavier. That will affect also design of new furniture.

Not to mention the XXXL proliferation of clothes.
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Craig Lamson

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #6068 on: July 08, 2020, 04:04:54 pm »

More Than 40 Hospital ICUs In Florida Have Hit Maximum Capacity With Zero Beds Available

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tommybeer/2020/07/07/more-than-40-hospital-icus-in-florida-have-hit-maximum-capacity-with-zero-beds-available/#608532be3e70

Masks, masks, we don't need no masks.

Question.  How full were they prior to the latest surge?  People are having procedures that posponed months ago.  How many of those are filling those ICU beds. I don't know the answer.   Full ICU's are Hospitals usual run.  One study I saw said that currently only 15-20 percent of the ICU beds in Texas for example are Covid related  This sounds like more panic porn to me. 
« Last Edit: July 08, 2020, 04:08:07 pm by Craig Lamson »
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Alan Klein

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #6069 on: July 08, 2020, 04:06:09 pm »

I am pretty sure your wife agrees with you on that. Maybe not the constitution part.
Don't be a troublemaker, Frank.  :)

faberryman

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #6070 on: July 08, 2020, 04:43:11 pm »

The US hit a new record: over 60,000 new COVID-19 cases in a day!

We're No.1, We're No. 1, We're No. 1

Never have we accomplished so much with so little effort.
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Alan Klein

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #6071 on: July 08, 2020, 05:06:50 pm »

The US hit a new record: over 60,000 new COVID-19 cases in a day!

We're No.1, We're No. 1, We're No. 1

Never have we accomplished so much with so little effort.
Pretty soon we won't need a vaccine.

elliot_n

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #6072 on: July 08, 2020, 05:19:15 pm »

Pretty soon we won't need a vaccine.

Yup - herd immunity in about four years time.

(correction - ten years.)
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LesPalenik

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #6073 on: July 08, 2020, 05:24:36 pm »

The US hit a new record: over 60,000 new COVID-19 cases in a day!

Just six months ago, it seemed improbable to have 60,000 cases in a year. What's the next milestone?
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faberryman

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #6074 on: July 08, 2020, 05:26:16 pm »

Just six months ago, it seemed improbable to have 60,000 cases in a year. What's the next milestone?
Dr. Fauci estimated that we will see 100,000/day soon if we stay on the current trajectory.
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Alan Klein

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #6075 on: July 08, 2020, 05:43:21 pm »

This is an interesting map showing how the 2019-2020 seasonal flu traveled through the US on a weekly basis. 
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/usmap.htm

Preliminary CDC estimates for the 2019-2020 season are as follows:

39,000,000 to 56,000,000 cases. 
18-26 million medical visits
410,000 to 740,000 hospitalizations
24,000-62,000 deaths
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/preliminary-in-season-estimates.htm

Curious how they're distinguishing between Covid-19 deaths and regular flu deaths especially for old people? 

LesPalenik

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #6076 on: July 08, 2020, 05:43:36 pm »

3.15 million cases is equivalent to about 1% of the entire US population. If the real numbers are about 10 times higher, then it would correspond to 10% of the population.
I can't corroborate these numbers, but luckily so far, none of my friends and acquaintances in Canada contracted the disease.

Quote
Using a simulation that accounted for all of these connections, the researchers collected data from 84 countries that, in total, account for more than 60% of the world’s population. They then calibrated the model with country-level data on testing, reported cases, reported deaths, excess overall mortality, and other information. Canada's absolute and relative virus count is also significantly lower than in USA.

The model revealed several important insights. Most fundamentally, the magnitude of the epidemic is widely underreported. The researchers estimate that cases and deaths through June 18 are, respectively, 11.8 and 1.48 times higher than official reports across the 84 nations considered. (Recent data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention corroborates this finding.) Despite these elevated numbers, the authors note that no country is remotely close to establishing herd immunity.

https://mitsloan.mit.edu/ideas-made-to-matter/covid-19-cases-are-12-times-higher-reported
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Alan Klein

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #6077 on: July 08, 2020, 06:00:05 pm »

3.15 million cases is equivalent to about 1% of the entire US population. If the real numbers are about 10 times higher, then it would correspond to 10% of the population.
I can't corroborate these numbers, but luckily so far, none of my friends and acquaintances in Canada contracted the disease.

https://mitsloan.mit.edu/ideas-made-to-matter/covid-19-cases-are-12-times-higher-reported
The problem with this study and most studies of this kind is that being medically instituted by scientists and not economists, there is no inclusion of the effects to the economy of the countries reviewed.  How can leaders who are concerned with both medical and economic effects make informed decisions based only on medical statistics?  There is huge concern about the economy of the 50 states.  This is why governors are opening their states as soon as they think they can.  But that's guesswork.  Having economic statistics to compare against for each country's' medical conditions would help them make informed decisions. 

faberryman

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #6078 on: July 08, 2020, 06:17:07 pm »

The problem with this study and most studies of this kind is that being medically instituted by scientists and not economists, there is no inclusion of the effects to the economy of the countries reviewed.  How can leaders who are concerned with both medical and economic effects make informed decisions based only on medical statistics?  There is huge concern about the economy of the 50 states.  This is why governors are opening their states as soon as they think they can.  But that's guesswork.  Having economic statistics to compare against for each country's' medical conditions would help them make informed decisions.
Oh, cripes. We have been over this one a couple of times already.
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faberryman

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #6079 on: July 08, 2020, 08:16:27 pm »

Serbia Seems To Relent On Coronavirus Curfew After Violence Erupts In Belgrade

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/07/08/888948015/serbia-seems-to-relent-on-coronavirus-curfew-after-violence-erupts-in-belgrade

Where is Slobodan when you need him?
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