PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political

[Craig Lamson]

Here is some good news for Craig from Trump's speech today:

"I think I'm going to buy an RV and travel from now on in an RV with our first lady. I don't think anybody would mind that."

Maybe Craig will be the one to do the definitive portrait of Donald Trump in his new RV. You know, the presidential portrait. It would hang in the White House. I mean we already have photos of him driving fire trucks, but those were more candids that portraits.

Sounds good to me.  What I want to see is how much the thing weights, when bullet and rocket proofed.    One of my customers builds on FreightLiner and Volvo Semi chassis.  Even they might be a problem.  But sign me up, Im ready!

[faberryman]

In other news, the WHO has updated its guidance, and now recommends that people wear fabric face masks when in public.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/05/health/face-mask-coronavirus-who-recommendations-bn/index.html

[Paulo Bizarro]

You said 1.5 billion Euros in your original post.    I just found an article. It's €1.35 trillion


"Europe is throwing money at the region's deepest downturn since the Great Depression. It still may not be enough to spur a strong recovery in the second half of the year.
The European Central Bank on Thursday said it would expand its massive bond-buying program to combat the shock from the coronavirus pandemic. The central bank has now committed to buy €1.35 trillion ($1.5 trillion) of bonds, an increase of €600 billion ($675 billion)."
https://www.wlfi.com/content/national/571027002.html?ref=002

When I took school, 1,000,000,000 (1 thousand million) is the same as 1 billion. You guys would call it 1 trillion.

It's really not difficult.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

When I took school, 1,000,000,000 (1 thousand million) is the same as 1 billion. You guys would call it 1 trillion....

No, we don’t.

Trillion is one thousand billions here in the US.

[LesPalenik]

When I took school, 1,000,000,000 (1 thousand million) is the same as 1 billion. You guys would call it 1 trillion.

It's really not difficult.

In other words, the European billion is a petite billion, compared to the more substantial US billion.
Similar to the Imperial and US gallon, but in this case the US one gallon jug is smaller than the imperial. Not unlike the emperor and royal penguins.

[Ray]

In other words, the European billion is a petite billion, compared to the more substantial US billion.
Similar to the Imperial and US gallon, but in this case the US one gallon jug is smaller than the imperial. Not unlike the emperor and royal penguins.

It's the other way round. There's a 'short scale billion' and a 'long scale billion'. In 1974, the UK government officially switch from the 'long scale billion', which is a million million, to the 'short scale billion' which is a thousand million, the same as the US.

According to wikipedia, Bulgarian, Catalan, Croatian, Czech, Danish, Dutch, Finnish, French, Georgian, German, Hebrew (Asia), Hungarian, Italian, Norwegian, Polish, Portuguese, Romanian, Russian, Serbian, Slovak, Slovenian, Spanish, Swedish, Turkish and Ukrainian — use milliard (or a related word) for the short scale billion, and billion (or a related word) for the long scale billion.

Refer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billion

[Alan Klein]

So was I right when I said the following in my earlier post?  Because 1.5 billion Euros is chump change.

"You said 1.5 billion Euros in your original post.    I just found an article. It's €1.35 trillion


"Europe is throwing money at the region's deepest downturn since the Great Depression. It still may not be enough to spur a strong recovery in the second half of the year.
The European Central Bank on Thursday said it would expand its massive bond-buying program to combat the shock from the coronavirus pandemic. The central bank has now committed to buy €1.35 trillion ($1.5 trillion) of bonds, an increase of €600 billion ($675 billion)."
https://www.wlfi.com/content/national/571027002.html?ref=002"

[LesPalenik]

It's the other way round. There's a 'short scale billion' and a 'long scale billion'. In 1974, the UK government officially switch from the 'long scale billion', which is a million million, to the 'short scale billion' which is a thousand million, the same as the US.

According to wikipedia, Bulgarian, Catalan, Croatian, Czech, Danish, Dutch, Finnish, French, Georgian, German, Hebrew (Asia), Hungarian, Italian, Norwegian, Polish, Portuguese, Romanian, Russian, Serbian, Slovak, Slovenian, Spanish, Swedish, Turkish and Ukrainian — use milliard (or a related word) for the short scale billion, and billion (or a related word) for the long scale billion.

Refer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billion

Thanks Ray for the explanation. I have never seen a billion.
Speaking of billions and viruses, people absorb up to 30 billion phages every day.

[Robert Roaldi]

So was I right when I said the following in my earlier post?  Because 1.5 billion Euros is chump change.

"You said 1.5 billion Euros in your original post.    I just found an article. It's €1.35 trillion


"Europe is throwing money at the region's deepest downturn since the Great Depression. It still may not be enough to spur a strong recovery in the second half of the year.
The European Central Bank on Thursday said it would expand its massive bond-buying program to combat the shock from the coronavirus pandemic. The central bank has now committed to buy €1.35 trillion ($1.5 trillion) of bonds, an increase of €600 billion ($675 billion)."
https://www.wlfi.com/content/national/571027002.html?ref=002"

You complain endlessly about how much money is being spent, using big numbers that mean nothing to me. Is this a lot of money compared to keeping the military in new toys? How much did the 2008 bailout cost? What does your presence in Afghanistan cost? What has the war on drugs cost and is it accomplishing much?

I'm curious. If an earthquake levelled San Francisco, how much money do you think the USA should spend repairing the damage and helping the people there? Or do you say, well too bad, and walk away, that's their problem. Next time a hurricane hits the Jersey shores, do you want someone to deliver sand bags and food relief to the folks there or just have some politician drop by and throw paper towels at them?

How much money will the US spend doing something about rising sea levels, wrt Miami and other cities on the coasts in the coming century?

You worry a lot about how much money the government is spending. What's the alternative? Do you believe that the free market will do something about the fact that the Colorado river is drying up?

Are you paying more tax than you did in 1959 or 1963 or 1982? Is your life better or worse?

Reagan and now Trump gave tax breaks to people earning high income so that they would be freed up to "create" more jobs. Did it work? Is the middle class better off? The 1% are. If what Reagan did worked so well, why did Trump have to do it again? Didn't it work the first time? Keep in mind that middle class income in the US has stagnated since the early 1980s. The wealth never trickled down, every survey since forever has shown that.

The propaganda campaign to convince you that the government is bad has blinded you. You now have ineffective and corrupt governments. Congratulations, are you better off?

[Alan Klein]

You complain endlessly about how much money is being spent, using big numbers that mean nothing to me. Is this a lot of money compared to keeping the military in new toys? How much did the 2008 bailout cost? What does your presence in Afghanistan cost? What has the war on drugs cost and is it accomplishing much?

I'm curious. If an earthquake levelled San Francisco, how much money do you think the USA should spend repairing the damage and helping the people there? Or do you say, well too bad, and walk away, that's their problem. Next time a hurricane hits the Jersey shores, do you want someone to deliver sand bags and food relief to the folks there or just have some politician drop by and throw paper towels at them?

How much money will the US spend doing something about rising sea levels, wrt Miami and other cities on the coasts in the coming century?

You worry a lot about how much money the government is spending. What's the alternative? Do you believe that the free market will do something about the fact that the Colorado river is drying up?

Are you paying more tax than you did in 1959 or 1963 or 1982? Is your life better or worse?

Reagan and now Trump gave tax breaks to people earning high income so that they would be freed up to "create" more jobs. Did it work? Is the middle class better off? The 1% are. If what Reagan did worked so well, why did Trump have to do it again? Didn't it work the first time? Keep in mind that middle class income in the US has stagnated since the early 1980s. The wealth never trickled down, every survey since forever has shown that.

The propaganda campaign to convince you that the government is bad has blinded you. You now have ineffective and corrupt governments. Congratulations, are you better off?

I have no issue with disaster relief or general infrastruture spending, within reason.  Spending money to prevent Colorado river flooding is not the same as bailing out American Airlines. I've also complained about US military expenditures especially overseas. 

But that's not what's happening now. While some money is going to people out of work, most of the money being printed is the Fed pumping up assets that were already bubbles created by earlier Fed printing after the 2001 and 2008 recessions.  The rich and more well-to-do are the major asset holders of stock, real estate, and other assets. The money being printed and spent to help those assets now is helping the rich more than others.

Meanwhile, eventual price inflation will make the average and poor people poorer as the purchasing power of currency declines.   Their cash savings and salaries will be worth less.  Also, printing puts a tax on future earnings as debt caused by printing has to eventually be paid back with higher tax rates for everyone.  Income tax, sales tax, property taxes, VAT taxes, etc.   So you will have less to spend on your children in future years.  This is happening not only in America but in Europe, Canada, Australia, Japan, China, and elsewhere. 

There is no such thing as a free lunch.

[dreed]

You complain endlessly about how much money is being spent, using big numbers that mean nothing to me. Is this a lot of money compared to keeping the military in new toys?

Ever since the world moved off the "gold standard" in the 1970s, money doesn't mean what anyone thinks it does any more.

Money is now completely arbitrary. If the government needs more, it can just make more.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

... Money is now completely arbitrary. If the government needs more, it can just make more.

Is that so?

Let me quote Marx for you: "You can throw laws of economics out the front door and they will sneaks back in through the rear window."

In other words, yes, governments can "make more money," but what happens next has been demonstrated historically, and even recently, around the world, from Germany, to Latin America, to Yugoslavia - hyperinflation.

[kers]

Is that so?

Let me quote Marx for you: "You can throw laws of economics out the front door and they will sneaks back in through the rear window."

In other words, yes, governments can "make more money," but what happens next has been demonstrated historically, and even recently, around the world, from Germany, to Latin America, to Yugoslavia - hyperinflation.

Oh Slobodan, you communist you

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Oh Slobodan, you communist you

Hey, I had to read all three tomes of Das Kapital in college and pass an exam based on that

[Alan Klein]

Ever since the world moved off the "gold standard" in the 1970s, money doesn't mean what anyone thinks it does any more.

Money is now completely arbitrary. If the government needs more, it can just make more.

The government doesn't print money.  The government prints currency.  That piece of paper in your wallet is not money. It's an IOU.  When we all were on the gold standard, then money represented money.  Now it's crap.   Gold is money.  A house, car, the clothes on your back, your Nikon, is wealth. 

[Ray]

The government doesn't print money.  The government prints currency.  That piece of paper in your wallet is not money. It's an IOU.  When we all were on the gold standard, then money represented money.  Now it's crap.   Gold is money.  A house, car, the clothes on your back, your Nikon, is wealth.

Here's my opinion. Money represents energy sources, such as fossil fuels and electricity, and the way we use those energy sources. Everything we do, at every level and in every situation, requires energy in our modern civilizations. To live without such energy sources would require living like a remote hunter-gatherer tribe in the Amazon jungle.

Money is to facilitate trade and the exchange of goods and services. It's obviously much more efficient than the old-fashioned bartering system.

As long as energy sources are maintained, and as long as that energy is used sensibly and efficiently, and as long as there are no destructive conflicts, then everything should be okay.

During this Covid crisis there have been a lot of people in non-essential industries that have become unemployed, mostly in the broad field of entertainment, such as tourism, football matches, film shows in cinemas, restaurants, song festivals, and so on.

What is rarely mentioned is that those of us who do have work, or have a regular income such as a pension, actually save money, because we are no longer going on expensive cruises, taking overseas flights for a holiday in expensive hotels, eating in restaurants, paying to watch two groups of people competing to kick a ball between two posts, and so on.

I'm Australian of course, which is the 'lucky country'. We have remarkably low Covid-19 deaths, and I've never felt the need or been required to wear a mask. In supermarkets there are crosses marked on the floor to indicate social distancing at the check-out, but no requirement to wear a mask.

The main effect that Covid-19 has had on me is that I have had to refrain from visiting my some of favourite tourist spots. However, that has increased my bank balance, so I'm not really upset. 

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

Is that so?

Let me quote Marx for you: "You can throw laws of economics out the front door and they will sneaks back in through the rear window."

In other words, yes, governments can "make more money," but what happens next has been demonstrated historically, and even recently, around the world, from Germany, to Latin America, to Yugoslavia - hyperinflation.

Just checked Germany's inflation rate, because I do not recall hyperinflation (and a lot of "quantitative easing" has taken place in recent years also in Europe), looks pretty stable ...

We'll see what effect the COVID-19 pandemic will have ...

[Alan Klein]

Just checked Germany's inflation rate, because I do not recall hyperinflation (and a lot of "quantitative easing" has taken place in recent years also in Europe), looks pretty stable ...

We'll see what effect the COVID-19 pandemic will have ...

That's interesting.  Germany uses the Euro as do the other countries in the Union. So when the EU prints Euros, inflation effects Germany and all countries there.  Yet, inlfation in prices will vary as shown on this chart.  I wonder what mechanism, other than supply and demand, is effecting local rates?  How is it decided which countries get the additional Euros when they're "printed"?
https://tradingeconomics.com/country-list/inflation-rate?continent=europe

[John Camp]

Just checked Germany's inflation rate, because I do not recall hyperinflation (and a lot of "quantitative easing" has taken place in recent years also in Europe), looks pretty stable ...

We'll see what effect the COVID-19 pandemic will have ...

I think Slobo was referring to the famous German hyperinflation after WWI.

The value of the U.S. dollar has recently been falling against a basket of world currencies. That's because of the reckless and stupid Republican/Trump tax cuts coupled with the necessary spending to support the economy when the corona virus hit.

[Robert Roaldi]

Trump did an unconventional thing when he introduced tax cuts when the economy was doing well on its own. It was unnecessary and left the US with no leeway if/when the economy subsequently slowed, Covid notwithstanding. Normally governments replenish their coffers in good times.