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Author Topic: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political  (Read 501427 times)

JoeKitchen

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #4040 on: May 08, 2020, 03:10:33 pm »

So you have not used it to calculate the numbers for Sweden? Who has? Do you have a link?

I'll find it later, currently making Mole paste. 

Actually see below; I posted this yesterday fyi but you must have missed it. 

Imperial College Model Applied to Sweden Yields Preposterous Results
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JoeKitchen

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #4041 on: May 08, 2020, 03:51:50 pm »

Anyone else listen to Biden virtual town hall yesterday? 

Not going to lie, the bird chirping sounded really good.  Now Biden, could barely understand or hear him, but that bird was so nice. 

LOL, you Dems really picked a whopper. 
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William Walker

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #4042 on: May 08, 2020, 03:59:26 pm »

Not any worse then anyone else, but was better at accepting it then Biden!

PS, foxnews[/b].com/politics/bidens-public-health-advisory-committee-downplayed-repeatedly-downplayed-coronavirus-threat]Biden's public health advisory committee repeatedly downplayed coronavirus threat

Interesting write up.  Biden's hand picked health task force downplayed C-19 well into March.  They dont call him Sleepy Joe for nothing.
"Overall, we rate Fox News strongly Right-Biased due to editorial positions and story selection that favors the right. We also rate them Mixed factually and borderline Questionable based on poor sourcing and the spreading of conspiracy theories that later must be retracted after being widely shared. Further, Fox News would be rated a Questionable source based on numerous failed fact checks by hosts and pundits, however straight news reporting is generally reliable, therefore we rate them Mixed for factual reporting.   https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/fox-news/

Wonderful source!
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JoeKitchen

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #4043 on: May 08, 2020, 04:48:55 pm »

"Overall, we rate Fox News strongly Right-Biased due to editorial positions and story selection that favors the right. We also rate them Mixed factually and borderline Questionable based on poor sourcing and the spreading of conspiracy theories that later must be retracted after being widely shared. Further, Fox News would be rated a Questionable source based on numerous failed fact checks by hosts and pundits, however straight news reporting is generally reliable, therefore we rate them Mixed for factual reporting.   https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/fox-news/

Wonderful source!

So instead of responding  to what is reported you use ad homonym attacks. 

Classy!  And the response of a political charlatan. 

FYI, I've used several right, center and left sources.  Anything to say on those? 

By the way, even your link says "however straight news reporting is generally reliable," which is exactly what I was doing. 
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faberryman

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #4044 on: May 08, 2020, 05:07:48 pm »

Actually see below; I posted this yesterday fyi but you must have missed it.
Thanks. I have been without power for 72 hours and am just catching up.
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JoeKitchen

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #4045 on: May 08, 2020, 05:34:15 pm »

Thanks. I have been without power for 72 hours and am just catching up.

No worries, and sorry for being snarky in my response. 

This lock down has be stressing on me.
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faberryman

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #4046 on: May 08, 2020, 06:25:21 pm »

Normally, I wouldn't give the New York Post much credence, but this is a Morning Consult poll result and not a news story, so maybe something is to be said for it. It says that a significant percentage of people won't be getting a COVID-19 vaccination when it becomes available. No reasons why or why not are given.

https://nypost.com/2020/05/07/one-third-of-americans-may-refuse-coronavirus-vaccine-poll-says/

It seems like getting vaccinated is a no-brainer.

« Last Edit: May 08, 2020, 06:49:07 pm by faberryman »
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Alan Klein

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #4047 on: May 08, 2020, 06:43:45 pm »

Normally, I wouldn't give the New York Post must credence, but this is a Morning Consult poll result and not a news story, so maybe something is to be said for it. It says that significant percentage of people won't be getting COVID-19 vaccinations when they become available. No reasons why or why not are given.

https://nypost.com/2020/05/07/one-third-of-americans-may-refuse-coronavirus-vaccine-poll-says/


There's a lot of discussion of rushing the vaccine before full testing is done.  That means there's a good chance that people will die from it or maybe get the virus in it's full form.  Who wants to be a guinea pig?

JoeKitchen

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #4048 on: May 08, 2020, 08:20:49 pm »

Normally, I wouldn't give the New York Post much credence, but this is a Morning Consult poll result and not a news story, so maybe something is to be said for it. It says that a significant percentage of people won't be getting a COVID-19 vaccination when it becomes available. No reasons why or why not are given.

https://nypost.com/2020/05/07/one-third-of-americans-may-refuse-coronavirus-vaccine-poll-says/

It seems like getting vaccinated is a no-brainer.

To be honest, given the extremely low IFR for someone my age in my shape, I probably won’t go out of my way to get it.  I would not refuse it but feel a tetanus shot is more important at this point.   
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #4049 on: May 08, 2020, 09:49:43 pm »

There's a lot of discussion of rushing the vaccine before full testing is done.  That means there's a good chance that people will die from it or maybe get the virus in it's full form.  Who wants to be a guinea pig?

Are those actual side effects of vaccines that are not adequately tested or are you making those up? The idea of accidentally getting the virus in its full form seems far-fetched.

But your main point makes sense. There was early talk about bypassing the usual bureaucratic procedures to get a vaccine out fast, but maybe people wouldn't trust such a product.
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John Camp

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #4050 on: May 08, 2020, 11:22:03 pm »

There's a lot of discussion of rushing the vaccine before full testing is done.  That means there's a good chance that people will die from it or maybe get the virus in it's full form.  Who wants to be a guinea pig?

Alan, I don't think there's much talk of using the vaccine before full testing -- but there' a lot of talk about telescoping the whole process. I've been closely following the Oxford vaccine, which is the most advanced, and may be available in the UK sometime in early autumn. They have a vaccine candidate that is similar to vaccines which they developed and tested for SARS and MERS, which are also corona viruses. They were able to test their vaccine against the virus in monkey models (in Montana) this spring, and none of the monkey models (often used as precursors to human tests) were completely successful. The monkeys didn't get the virus, and didn't get sick from the vaccine. So, they started the next stage double-blind tests a week ago, and those are underway.  They expect to get a "signal" on the results of those tests, both on efficacy and safety, by early June. They will then go to wide third-stage tests over the summer, with results as soon as September. However, the UK government has said that if the second-stage tests are promising, with no safety or efficacy problems, they will begin ramping up production even before the third-stages tests are done, so that as soon as the results are known, if they are good, the vaccine can be released. Under normal circumstances, there are all kinds of bureaucratic things spliced in there that take time. Things are done by slow step by step, with long waits in between steps with nothing productive happening. (Like fund raising, and factory building.) For example, the final bureaucratic review can take up to a year, but most of that is because the bureaucrats are doing several things at the same time, and not focusing on a single drug candidate. In this case, the paperwork could be done in a week.

I've volunteered to rent one of those Delta rent-a-jets to fly my friends to London to get the vaccine, if that's what happens. We'll be refueling in Newark, and we'd be happy to take your wife with us if there are not yet vaccines available in the US.

 
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Alan Klein

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #4051 on: May 09, 2020, 12:26:38 am »

Are those actual side effects of vaccines that are not adequately tested or are you making those up? The idea of accidentally getting the virus in its full form seems far-fetched.

But your main point makes sense. There was early talk about bypassing the usual bureaucratic procedures to get a vaccine out fast, but maybe people wouldn't trust such a product.
Well, why do you think it takes so long to get approval?  Testing new drugs takes time.  They have to prove it's safe.  If you shorten the time for seeing what happens, you wind up with more side effects and some could be deadly.  I wouldn't want to be in the first group.  Would you?  Let's see how the others make out first.  ???

Alan Klein

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #4052 on: May 09, 2020, 12:29:15 am »

Alan, I don't think there's much talk of using the vaccine before full testing -- but there' a lot of talk about telescoping the whole process. I've been closely following the Oxford vaccine, which is the most advanced, and may be available in the UK sometime in early autumn. They have a vaccine candidate that is similar to vaccines which they developed and tested for SARS and MERS, which are also corona viruses. They were able to test their vaccine against the virus in monkey models (in Montana) this spring, and none of the monkey models (often used as precursors to human tests) were completely successful. The monkeys didn't get the virus, and didn't get sick from the vaccine. So, they started the next stage double-blind tests a week ago, and those are underway.  They expect to get a "signal" on the results of those tests, both on efficacy and safety, by early June. They will then go to wide third-stage tests over the summer, with results as soon as September. However, the UK government has said that if the second-stage tests are promising, with no safety or efficacy problems, they will begin ramping up production even before the third-stages tests are done, so that as soon as the results are known, if they are good, the vaccine can be released. Under normal circumstances, there are all kinds of bureaucratic things spliced in there that take time. Things are done by slow step by step, with long waits in between steps with nothing productive happening. (Like fund raising, and factory building.) For example, the final bureaucratic review can take up to a year, but most of that is because the bureaucrats are doing several things at the same time, and not focusing on a single drug candidate. In this case, the paperwork could be done in a week.

I've volunteered to rent one of those Delta rent-a-jets to fly my friends to London to get the vaccine, if that's what happens. We'll be refueling in Newark, and we'd be happy to take your wife with us if there are not yet vaccines available in the US.

 
I appreciate the offer and don't take this the wrong way.  But I think I'll wait for the second flight.  :)

Alan Klein

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #4053 on: May 09, 2020, 01:10:38 am »

China takes huge hit to economy.  80 millions estimated unemployed.  That's surprising.  I thought they'd all be making masks.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/13/economy/china-2020-economy/index.html

BobShaw

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #4054 on: May 09, 2020, 02:12:26 am »

Regardless of whose barrow you push, you have to look at the US stats and see that something is dramatically wrong.
You test 8.6M people, which is great, about middle of the scale per capita, but you have 1.3M cases, which means that 1 in 8 are positive.
That is similar to the next three cot cases Spain, Italy and the UK.
Who are you testing? The people in the ICU?
Until you can get 1 in a 100 you need a lot more testing of the general population
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William Walker

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #4055 on: May 09, 2020, 03:44:17 am »

So instead of responding  to what is reported you use ad homonym attacks. 

Classy!  And the response of a political charlatan. 

FYI, I've used several right, center and left sources.  Anything to say on those? 

By the way, even your link says "however straight news reporting is generally reliable," which is exactly what I was doing.

Joe, a few things:
1.  I'm sure you meant "ad hominem"....anyway, I understand that an ad hominem attack is when, in an argument, someone uses a personal attack on the opponent's character. Please show me how I attacked your "character". I find that particularly curious after you have been relentlessly and gleefully attacking attacking Dr Neil Ferguson's character for some days now.
2.  Regarding your references: I followed your link to "The American Institute for Economic Research" - did a check on them in Media Bias/Fact Check - and then added them to my reading list! This, despite the fact that their article you posted had a link to "The Telegraph" which has a very poor rating. It is a pity they never checked their sources better...
3. Please explain what a "political charlatan" is in the context of me bringing your "dubious" links to the attention of the other members on this forum. And then explain how calling me "a political charlatan" is not attacking my character?
« Last Edit: May 09, 2020, 03:51:15 am by William Walker »
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JoeKitchen

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #4056 on: May 09, 2020, 07:00:17 am »

Joe, a few things:
1.  I'm sure you meant "ad hominem"....anyway, I understand that an ad hominem attack is when, in an argument, someone uses a personal attack on the opponent's character. Please show me how I attacked your "character". I find that particularly curious after you have been relentlessly and gleefully attacking attacking Dr Neil Ferguson's character for some days now.
2.  Regarding your references: I followed your link to "The American Institute for Economic Research" - did a check on them in Media Bias/Fact Check - and then added them to my reading list! This, despite the fact that their article you posted had a link to "The Telegraph" which has a very poor rating. It is a pity they never checked their sources better...
3. Please explain what a "political charlatan" is in the context of me bringing your "dubious" links to the attention of the other members on this forum. And then explain how calling me "a political charlatan" is not attacking my character?

I only attacked Ferguson's character in regards to him sleeping with a married women.  All other attacks were about his work and how wrong his predictions have been.  These attacks are not ad hominem since I went after his work. 

Insofar as the charlatan comment; I took that too far.  Apologies on that. 

You did not look at the article I posted, which showed Biden health panel down playing C-19 well into March with plenty of quotes supporting that.  Instead you decided to post a link that criticizes Fox News (even though the quoted you used said that Fox News is pretty good on reporting the facts).  You went after the character of the outlet instead of addressing the facts listed within.  That is an ad hominem on the network. 

FYI, I posted that article to respond to all of the criticism of Trump that he did not act fast enough, which implies the Dems have someone who would have.  However, by the quotes provided in that article, this is simply not the case.  You have to assume, from those quotes, Biden would have acted slower in responding. 
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William Walker

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #4057 on: May 09, 2020, 07:59:22 am »

I only attacked Ferguson's character in regards to him sleeping with a married women.  All other attacks were about his work and how wrong his predictions have been.  These attacks are not ad hominem since I went after his work. 

Insofar as the charlatan comment; I took that too far.  Apologies on that. 

You did not look at the article I posted, which showed Biden health panel down playing C-19 well into March with plenty of quotes supporting that.  Instead you decided to post a link that criticizes Fox News (even though the quoted you used said that Fox News is pretty good on reporting the facts).  You went after the character of the outlet instead of addressing the facts listed within.  That is an ad hominem on the network. 

FYI, I posted that article to respond to all of the criticism of Trump that he did not act fast enough, which implies the Dems have someone who would have.  However, by the quotes provided in that article, this is simply not the case.  You have to assume, from those quotes, Biden would have acted slower in responding.

I make no apology for having contempt for the entire Fox & Murdoch organisation. They are one of the causes of the toxicity in your (American) political discourse.

The problem with a news organisation being "pretty good" regarding the facts is then to know when to believe them and when not to....not so?
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Alan Klein

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #4058 on: May 09, 2020, 08:15:14 am »

"Overall, we rate Fox News strongly Right-Biased due to editorial positions and story selection that favors the right. We also rate them Mixed factually and borderline Questionable based on poor sourcing and the spreading of conspiracy theories that later must be retracted after being widely shared. Further, Fox News would be rated a Questionable source based on numerous failed fact checks by hosts and pundits, however straight news reporting is generally reliable, therefore we rate them Mixed for factual reporting.   https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/fox-news/

Wonderful source!

So here are CNN and MSNBC's ratings.

LEFT BIAS
These media sources are moderately to strongly biased toward liberal causes through story selection and/or political affiliation.  They may utilize strong loaded words (wording that attempts to influence an audience by using appeal to emotion or stereotypes), publish misleading reports and omit reporting of information that may damage liberal causes. Some sources in this category may be untrustworthy. See all Left Bias sources.

Overall, we rate CNN left biased based on editorial positions that consistently favors the left, while straight news reporting falls left-center through bias by omission. We also rate them Mixed for factual reporting due to several failed fact checks by TV hosts. However, news reporting on the website tends to be be properly sourced with minimal failed fact checks[/i]

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/cnn/
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/msnbc/

William Walker

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #4059 on: May 09, 2020, 08:23:45 am »

So here are CNN and MSNBC's ratings.

LEFT BIAS
These media sources are moderately to strongly biased toward liberal causes through story selection and/or political affiliation.  They may utilize strong loaded words (wording that attempts to influence an audience by using appeal to emotion or stereotypes), publish misleading reports and omit reporting of information that may damage liberal causes. Some sources in this category may be untrustworthy. See all Left Bias sources.

Overall, we rate CNN left biased based on editorial positions that consistently favors the left, while straight news reporting falls left-center through bias by omission. We also rate them Mixed for factual reporting due to several failed fact checks by TV hosts. However, news reporting on the website tends to be be properly sourced with minimal failed fact checks[/i]

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/cnn/
...which is why you won't find me quoting them. Why don't you guys try and do the same (with your links) from now on?

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