PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political

[Alan Klein]

I thought it was the individual states that shutdown and open up the economy. Trump has nothing to do with that...at least that's what you said before.

Trump shut down travel from Asia on Jan 31st. No governor could do that.  But you make a good point.  However, after that it was and still is up to the governors to lock up things within their states.  Frankly I've lost track who shut things down and who's opening things up.  It's so fluid. All, I know is I've been hiding at home for around 6 weeks or so and the wife wants to kill me before the virus gets a chance. 

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Larger number is based on realtime-ish reporting.  Smaller number is based on official death certification, and lags.

The most succinct answer I found is like this:

Died with C19 vs. died from C19

[JoeKitchen]

These guys have just updated their Covid death projections (they update every few days). This morning they were projecting 72,000 US deaths, now it's 135,000. (This is the first wave, up to 4 August.)

https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-states-of-america

(Yes, the US does currently have better numbers than Europe, but I suspect that is about to change, ℅ 'Opening Up America Again'. But the UK will give you a good run for your money, as our lockdown has been as soft as yours.)

I'm still waiting for FL to fall into the abbyss.  I was told two weeks ago to wait two weeks and so far nada. 

Personally I think FL should be the model for the country.  Ron DeSantis is doing some innovative policy while not destroying people's rights.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

https://www.globalresearch.ca/hospitals-getting-paid-more-label-cause-death-coronavirus/5709720

US Hospitals Getting Paid More to Label Cause of Death as ‘Coronavirus’

Senator Scott Jensen represents Minnesota. He’s also a doctor. He appeared on Fox News with Laura Ingram where he revealed a very disturbing piece of information.

Dr. Scott Jensen says the American Medical Association is now “encouraging” doctors to overcount coronavirus deaths across the country.

Jensen received a  7-page document that showed him how to fill out a death certificate as a “COVID-19 diagnosis” even when there isn’t a lab test confirming the diagnosis.

“Right now Medicare is determining that if you have a COVID-19 admission to the hospital you get $13,000. If that COVID-19 patient goes on a ventilator you get $39,000, three times as much. Nobody can tell me after 35 years in the world of medicine that sometimes those kinds of things impact on what we do.”

The USA Today fact checking labels the claim as TRUE.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/04/24/fact-check-medicare-hospitals-paid-more-covid-19-patients-coronavirus/3000638001/?fbclid=IwAR0lf4CPlbJfe9oc9C98pLNFOzpJpZNCydnL7AZWCTpUR8ahnYd2E9n8nzc

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

Top US health official contradicts Donald Trump's claim coronavirus was made in a Chinese lab
Anthony Fauci has said that there is no scientific evidence to support claims made by US president
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/05/05/top-us-health-official-contradicts-donald-trumps-claim-coronavirus/

[...]
Dr Fauci contradicted claims made by the US president that the global coronavirus pandemic started in a laboratory in the Chinese city of Wuhan in an interview published on Monday evening by National Geographic.

"If you look at the evolution of the virus in bats and what's out there now, (the scientific evidence) is very, very strongly leaning toward this could not have been artificially or deliberately manipulated," Fauci told the magazine.

"Everything about the stepwise evolution over time strongly indicates that (this virus) evolved in nature and then jumped species," he said.

Fauci: No scientific evidence the coronavirus was made in a Chinese lab
In an exclusive interview, the face of America’s COVID-19 response cautions against the rush for states to reopen, and offers his tips for handling the pandemic's information deluge.
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/2020/05/anthony-fauci-no-scientific-evidence-the-coronavirus-was-made-in-a-chinese-lab-cvd/

“If you look at the evolution of the virus in bats and what's out there now, [the scientific evidence] is very, very strongly leaning toward this could not have been artificially or deliberately manipulated … Everything about the stepwise evolution over time strongly indicates that [this virus] evolved in nature and then jumped species,” Fauci says. Based on the scientific evidence, he also doesn’t entertain an alternate theory—that someone found the coronavirus in the wild, brought it to a lab, and then it accidentally escaped.

Intelligence Community Statement on Origins of COVID-19
https://www.dni.gov/index.php/newsroom/press-releases/item/2112-intelligence-community-statement-on-origins-of-covid-19

“The entire Intelligence Community has been consistently providing critical support to U.S. policymakers and those responding to the COVID-19 virus, which originated in China. The Intelligence Community also concurs with the wide scientific consensus that the COVID-19 virus was not manmade or genetically modified.

“As we do in all crises, the Community’s experts respond by surging resources and producing critical intelligence on issues vital to U.S. national security. The IC will continue to rigorously examine emerging information and intelligence to determine whether the outbreak began through contact with infected animals or if it was the result of an accident at a laboratory in Wuhan.”

So why then is Trump trying to divert attention and blame the Chinese?
Is he trying to shift his own responsibility for the poor handling of the epidemic to others?

[elliot_n]

The USA Today fact checking labels the claim as TRUE.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/04/24/fact-check-medicare-hospitals-paid-more-covid-19-patients-coronavirus/3000638001/?fbclid=IwAR0lf4CPlbJfe9oc9C98pLNFOzpJpZNCydnL7AZWCTpUR8ahnYd2E9n8nzc

Did you read the article?

Jensen said he thinks the overall number of COVID-19 cases have been undercounted based on limitations in the number of tests available.

[elliot_n]

So why then is Trump trying to divert attention and blame the Chinese?
Is he trying to shift his own responsibility for the poor handling of the epidemic to others?

Something's not right. Pompeo says there is 'enormous evidence' that the virus came from a Chinese lab. Fauci says there is none.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Did you read the article?

Jensen said he thinks the overall number of COVID-19 cases have been undercounted based on limitations in the number of tests available.

That may or may not be true, but it is completely unrelated to the point of the article that hospitals are strongly incentivized to report something as a C19 death.

[elliot_n]

That may or may not be true, but it is completely unrelated to the point of the article that hospitals are strongly incentivized to report something as a C19 death.

Well, that's something for the police.

More from the article:

Ask FactCheck weighed in April 21: "The figures cited by Jensen generally square with estimated Medicare payments for COVID-19 hospitalizations, based on average Medicare payments for patients with similar diagnoses."

Ask FactCheck reporter Angelo Fichera, who interviewed Jensen, noted, "Jensen said he did not think that hospitals were intentionally misclassifying cases for financial reasons. But that’s how his comments have been widely interpreted and paraded on social media."

Ask FactCheck's conclusion: "Recent legislation pays hospitals higher Medicare rates for COVID-19 patients and treatment, but there is no evidence of fraudulent reporting."

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Something's not right. Pompeo says there is 'enormous evidence' that the virus came from a Chinese lab. Fauci says there is none.

Who cares? Wet markets or the lab, it came from China.

[JoeKitchen]

Something's not right. Pompeo says there is 'enormous evidence' that the virus came from a Chinese lab. Fauci says there is none.

Source please. 

Did Fauci actually say this, or did he say he has not seen any, which a very big difference. 

Fauci is in charge of handling the pandemic in this country and coordinating response.  He is not in charge of dealing with foriegn states and looking at intelligence information as it pertains to foreign affairs like, say, the secretary of state is.

So I would suspect that Pompeo is dealing a lot more with foreign intelligence then Fauci, which is a good thing.  We dont need MDs deciding foreign policy. 

[kers]

Source please. 

Did Fauci actually say this, or did he say he has not seen any, which a very big difference. 

Fauci is in charge of handling the pandemic in this country and coordinating response.  He is not in charge of dealing with foriegn states and looking at intelligence information as it pertains to foreign affairs like, say, the secretary of state is.

I would say :
show this enormous evidence... do it in a tweet - i don't care... but show it.

[elliot_n]

Source please. 

Did Fauci actually say this, or did he say he has not seen any, which a very big difference. 

Fauci is in charge of handling the pandemic in this country and coordinating response.  He is not in charge of dealing with foriegn states and looking at intelligence information as it pertains to foreign affairs like, say, the secretary of state is.

So I would suspect that Pompeo is dealing a lot more with foreign intelligence then Fauci, which is a good thing.  We dont need MDs deciding foreign policy. 

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/2020/05/anthony-fauci-no-scientific-evidence-the-coronavirus-was-made-in-a-chinese-lab-cvd/

[JoeKitchen]

I would say :
show this enormous evidence... do it in a tweet - i don't care... but show it.

Kind of an oxymoron isn't it.  What's the limit on tweets, 240 characters. 

But what I said stands.  Fauci is not dealing with foreign intelligence like Pompeo is. 

[JoeKitchen]

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/2020/05/anthony-fauci-no-scientific-evidence-the-coronavirus-was-made-in-a-chinese-lab-cvd/

Thanks, but your quote is still very misleading. 

He said no evidence it was made in a lab, but that is not the prevailing theory right now. 

The prevailing theory is that it was a naturally occurring virus collected from a bat to be studied in the Wuhan lab.  If this is the case, there would be no evidence of it being made since it was not made, just stored.  Furthermore, The lab has been collecting coronaviruses from bats for decades to study, which we know because that lab has been publishing papers stating this for years. 

Then this naturally occurring virus infected a lab worker and due to the extremely long incubation period, that worker was let out into public too early since he was thought to be okay.  And this is how it started.  Or at least this is the best theory to date especially since that wet market does not sell bat. 

[elliot_n]

Kind of an oxymoron isn't it.  What's the limit on tweets, 240 characters. 

The most enormous evidence would be if patient zero was an employee of the Wuhan Institute of Virology. That would fit in a tweet.

[JoeKitchen]

The most enormous evidence would be if patient zero was an employee of the Wuhan Institute of Virology. That would fit in a tweet.

Well when you figure out how to penetrate the layers of mis-information the Chinese putt together, let me know.  That, or are you suggesting the Chinese communist party is 100% truthful? 

[elliot_n]

Thanks, but your quote is still very misleading. 

No it's not. From the article:

Based on the scientific evidence, he also doesn’t entertain an alternate theory—that someone found the coronavirus in the wild, brought it to a lab, and then it accidentally escaped.

[elliot_n]

Well when you figure out how to penetrate the layers of mis-information the Chinese putt together, let me know.  That, or are you suggesting the Chinese communist party is 100% truthful? 

I am suggesting that Pompeo is being as devious as the CCP. If he's got the evidence, he should put up or shut up.

[kers]

Fake news by the press is one thing fake news ( alternative facts) by the government another.