PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political

[elliot_n]

I dont, sort of, but you do.  Just pointing out by the standards of most on this forum, Cuomo is more at fault then Trump.  It is just funny discouraging to hear Cuomo repeat the same exact thing as Trump, like scapegoating all of the media for downplaying it in January and February, and receive completely different treatment. 

Anyone following the media from late January knew what was coming.

The WHO declared a public health emergency of international concern (PHEIC) on 30 Jan.

[William Walker]

Some interesting facts I just learned. 

The death per million in the USA is nearly better then most major EU countries, with the exception of Germany. 

However, our number minus NY state data puts us on par with Germany. 

NY by itself though is at 1180 deaths per million (NYC is at ~1400 deaths per million, 3 times Italy), out pacing Italy and all others whom can be trusted with their data (not China). 

It seems to me the real failure is with Cuomo and De Blasio.  Cuomo and De Blasio royally screwed up.  Cuomo had a policy up until very recently that is a member of a retirement homes get C-19, the person needed to accepted back into their nursing home. 

Trump issued his 15 days to stop  the spread order on 3-16; Cuomo waited until 3-23 to shut down NY, a full week later. 

If anyone should be held accountable it is Cuomo and De Blasio. 

Last, you can not at the same time be complaining for more testing, which will naturally increase number of cases, and then when testing increases, giving us more positive cases, complain that we have the highest number of cases.  It makes no sense.

Would it then be fair to say that if the USA had followed Sweden's model at this point you would now be on 80,764 deaths?

[JoeKitchen]

Anyone following the media from late January knew what was coming.

The WHO declared a public health emergency of international concern (PHEIC) on 30 Jan.

Not here.  The media ran story after story about how this was no big deal right up until the beginning of March. 

Insofar as the WHO declaring it a concern, Trump the day after shut down travel, and the media and the Dems started calling him a racist for doing so.  Not really supporting it. 

[JoeKitchen]

Would it then be fair to say that if the USA had followed Sweden's model at this point you would now be on 80,764 deaths?

Maybe, and I realize I am being somewhat contradictory here. 

Although I'd pay now then more later.  We will have a second wave and I believe the most countries' numbers will even out to be on par with Sweden.  Although there is some news that a vaccine could be ready by September with a million doses available to distribute in the USA.  I kind of feel this is a bit of a stretch though and more wishful thinking on the companies part. 

[William Walker]

Some interesting facts I just learned. 

The death per million in the USA is nearly better then most major EU countries, with the exception of Germany. 

However, our number minus NY state data puts us on par with Germany. 

NY by itself though is at 1180 deaths per million (NYC is at ~1400 deaths per million, 3 times Italy), out pacing Italy and all others whom can be trusted with their data (not China). 

It seems to me the real failure is with Cuomo and De Blasio.  Cuomo and De Blasio royally screwed up.  Cuomo had a policy up until very recently that is a member of a retirement homes get C-19, the person needed to accepted back into their nursing home. 

Trump issued his 15 days to stop  the spread order on 3-16; Cuomo waited until 3-23 to shut down NY, a full week later. 

If anyone should be held accountable it is Cuomo and De Blasio. 

Last, you can not at the same time be complaining for more testing, which will naturally increase number of cases, and then when testing increases, giving us more positive cases, complain that we have the highest number of cases.  It makes no sense.

"I wish someone stood up and blew the bugle. And if no one was going to blow the bugle, I would feel much better if I was a bugle blower last December and January. ... I would feel better sitting here today saying, 'I blew the bugle about Wuhan province in January.' I can't say that." - Andrew Cuomo.  https://www.axios.com/andrew-cuomo-coronavirus-axios-on-hbo-1e59c078-3fd8-4ff5-824f-50743620b4ea.html

"Mayor Bill de Blasio doesn’t regret telling New Yorkers to keep eating out at bars and restaurants in mid-March" - the New York Post.

It seems to me Cuomo is admitting his early mistake and De Blasio is not.

I cannot speak for the other "Trump Bashers" here, but my whole point has always been that no-one saw this thing coming and it stands to reason that early mistakes were made by just about every country. The problem I have with Trump - and De Blasio too then, is that they are not able to concede that point. That is all. It comes back to my original discussion with Slobodan regarding admitting to a mistake or mis-step which any decent human being should be able to do. No-one is perfect.

[elliot_n]

Not here.  The media ran story after story about how this was no big deal right up until the beginning of March. 

That's a shame. Your journalists screwed up.

But surely the terrifying situation in Wuhan in the last week of January was widely reported?

Here was the CCP, hardly famous for caring for its citizens, shutting down its whole economy in order to protect its people from a new disease.

How could a mayor or a governor or a president witness the Wuhan lockdown and not feel very worried indeed?

At that point they had a duty of care to research the situation, and if they had looked they would have been well aware of the gravity of the threat.

[JoeKitchen]

"I wish someone stood up and blew the bugle. And if no one was going to blow the bugle, I would feel much better if I was a bugle blower last December and January. ... I would feel better sitting here today saying, 'I blew the bugle about Wuhan province in January.' I can't say that." - Andrew Cuomo.  https://www.axios.com/andrew-cuomo-coronavirus-axios-on-hbo-1e59c078-3fd8-4ff5-824f-50743620b4ea.html

"Mayor Bill de Blasio doesn’t regret telling New Yorkers to keep eating out at bars and restaurants in mid-March" - the New York Post.

It seems to me Cuomo is admitting his early mistake and De Blasio is not.

I cannot speak for the other "Trump Bashers" here, but my whole point has always been that no-one saw this thing coming and it stands to reason that early mistakes were made by just about every country. The problem I have with Trump - and De Blasio too then, is that they are not able to concede that point. That is all. It comes back to my original discussion with Slobodan regarding admitting to a mistake or mis-step which any decent human being should be able to do. No-one is perfect.

What happened to Cuomo bluggling in February and early March?  And how about Cuomo repeatable seyingvthis is not the time to look back?

[JoeKitchen]

That's a shame. Your journalists screwed up.

But surely the terrifying situation in Wuhan in the last week of January was widely reported?

Here was the CCP, hardly famous for caring for its citizens, shutting down its whole economy in order to protect its people from a new disease.

How could a mayor or a governor or a president witness the Wuhan lockdown and not feel very worried indeed?

At that point they had a duty of care to research the situation, and if they had looked they would have been well aware of the gravity of the threat.

Good question.  All the experts here also said it was no big deal, and every one keeps on saying we need to listen to the experts. 

[John Camp]

Well, interesting read in the NYTs. 

‘Life Has to Go On’: How Sweden Has Faced the Virus Without a Lockdown

The country was an outlier in Europe, trusting its people to voluntarily follow the protocols. Many haven’t, but it does not seem to have hurt them.

Gatherings of more than 50 people are banned. Museums have closed and sporting events have been canceled. At the end of March, the authorities banned visits to nursing homes.
That’s roughly it. There are almost no fines, and police officers can only ask people to oblige. Pedestrians wearing masks are generally stared at as if they have just landed from Mars.

The article has (at this point) 1470 comments, almost of all of which point out that the article if full of sh*t. The numbers say almost exactly the opposite of what the article says..

[faberryman]

Not here.  The media ran story after story about how this was no big deal right up until the beginning of March.

There had to be bad news before the end of February. The stock market tanked on February 25 if I remember correctly.

[Robert Roaldi]

Good question.  All the experts here also said it was no big deal, and every one keeps on saying we need to listen to the experts.

Just to be clear. Are you now saying that the media did not sound the alarm till late March and that the experts said it was no big deal?

We're obviously not reading or listening to the same media.

[chez]

There had to be bad news before the end of February. The stock market tanked on February 25 if I remember correctly.

Here is an article that describes some of the attempts in February to warn Trump of Covid.

https://www.vox.com/2020/4/12/21218305/trump-ignored-coronavirus-warnings

[chez]

Good question.  All the experts here also said it was no big deal, and every one keeps on saying we need to listen to the experts.

Totally wrong...see my previous post.

[BernardLanguillier]

https://www.google.co.jp/amp/s/amp.ft.com/content/6bd88b7d-3386-4543-b2e9-0d5c6fac846c

Tue official covid19 casualties numbers may unfortunately be underestimated by 60%.

In UK and Italy it may be by a factor of 2 when considering stats.

Regards,
Bernard

[JoeKitchen]

The article has (at this point) 1470 comments, almost of all of which point out that the article if full of sh*t. The numbers say almost exactly the opposite of what the article says..

So those who comment on the NYTs are all experts?   

[JoeKitchen]

Just to be clear. Are you now saying that the media did not sound the alarm till late March and that the experts said it was no big deal?

We're obviously not reading or listening to the same media.

In the USA, the media (aka the NYTs, WashPo, etc) all downplayed this in January and February. 

[chez]

https://www.google.co.jp/amp/s/amp.ft.com/content/6bd88b7d-3386-4543-b2e9-0d5c6fac846c

Tue official covid19 casualties numbers may unfortunately be underestimated by 60%.

In UK and Italy it may be by a factor of 2 when considering stats.

Regards,
Bernard

Comparing the average deaths from previous years to the deaths form this year over the same timeframe span is the most accurate tally of the impact Covid had on the death count. It not only represents deaths directly resulting from being infected, but also deaths from other reasons such as over run medical systems or people afraid of seeking medical help while locked down.

The official death tolls are alarming...the real death tolls will be staggering.

[chez]

In the USA, the media (aka the NYTs, WashPo, etc) all downplayed this in January and February.

Show us.

[JoeKitchen]

Here is an article that describes some of the attempts in February to warn Trump of Covid.

https://www.vox.com/2020/4/12/21218305/trump-ignored-coronavirus-warnings

Oh wow, Vox, a left wing news site that also downplayed the virus in the beginning of the year, ignoring the fact that the majority of experts all said this was not a concern in January. 

Yes, there were a hand full who disagreed, but the large majority in the USA downplayed this in the beginning. 

[faberryman]

So those who comment on the NYTs are all experts?

I am shocked you think the New York Times is accurate.