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Author Topic: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political  (Read 500342 times)

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #1500 on: April 16, 2020, 03:44:28 pm »

Perhaps. 

Maybe I just have ...

Hair on your palms? I thought the cause is something entirely different ;)

JoeKitchen

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #1501 on: April 16, 2020, 03:47:23 pm »

Hair on your palms? I thought the cause is something entirely different ;)

It is a little off putting image if you look at it too quickly. 
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Raul_82

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #1502 on: April 16, 2020, 04:05:37 pm »

But maybe it's not enough socialized.
In Cuba, they have plenty of doctors who were educated for free without incurring any debts, and apparently, they are quite competent.

There's a lot of mysticism surrounding Cuban doctors. I'm Cuban so I know a little on the matter.
Cuba has good specialists but those are old and mostly in the verge of retirement. New generations received far less good education as the country has been going steeply downhill in the last 20 years.
Cuba "rent" their doctors to other countries, keeps the wages and pays them a misery, it's actually one of the most important forms of revenue over there.
You can get decent care for most stuff, but for complex conditions, transplants, cancer and the like, you're better off somewhere else. Heart transplants specially have a massive fail rate over there, it's basically a death sentence.

Most Hospitals are VERY unsanitary.
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William Walker

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #1503 on: April 16, 2020, 04:15:52 pm »

The PA legislature sent a bill to our governor, a Dem, to allow non-essential businesses to open so long as they can follow the CDC guidelines.  It's getting the same party line BS responses.

If my governor does not sign, I just may take a drive on Monday to the scheduled protest at the capital. 

I am getting tired of this shit!
Perhaps this will help you....Rich Lowry is not a "leftie" but here is a pretty good argument for the lockdown.
"An irony of the coronavirus debate is that the more successful lockdowns are in squelching the disease, the more vulnerable they will be to attack as unnecessary in the first place."

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/04/15/the-absurd-case-against-the-coronavirus-lockdown-189265
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Rob C

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #1504 on: April 16, 2020, 04:40:09 pm »

1. We are like this becuase we WANT to be like this and this system is tried and true.  2. National rule would be a disaster for a country as diverse as ours and perhaps the lack of such is why we have been so suscessful.  You think of it as a flaw, while most of us think of it as a godsend.  3. To think it works "poorly" perhaps reflects  your limited access to our freedoms.  Maybe those freedoms don't inspire you.  American as a whole find that they do.  Our consitiution is mostly reverered and has survived because it works.

4. As to speaking with "one voice", most Americans reject that completely. Your voice may not speak to my values and mine not to yours.  We find that important.  We value independence, perhaps you simply cannot understand why. We are far more indivuduals than a collective. 

5. Its often said that diversity is our strength and not a hinderence.  Its true in my opinion.  Not all roses to be sure but its part of why we have become the country we have become.  6. Our freedom sure must inspire others to want to be part of it given the amount of people trying to get here.

Sorry for the delay in getting back to you: had to do bothersome duties such as washing the lunch (that's true hyperbole!) dishes; I realised that apart from making and eating said travesty of a meal, I have spent the entire rest of the morning and afternoon devoted to LuLa. That is hardly healthy. Anyway.

1.  You might find that you are "like that" that because its what you are stuck with, know, and are without a snowball's of changing it;

2.  I think of it as a flaw because it removes consistency in law and its application. You can carry a gun in one state and yet not in another. Crazy. That such confusion may be characterised as a godsend is quite informative; you may actually be more French than you imagined. Success has come your way for much the same reasons as it did to both post-war Germany and post-war Japan: you started from zero (but in your case, with the added fiscal advantage of slavery). Being split into disperate identities had little to do with it - at least that I can instantly detect. Also, you had the opportunity of space, whereas most European countries are relatively little in size.

3.  The only freedom that the rest of us may lack, again that comes to mind, is your unfortunate right to carry lethal weapons around. To me, I am glad we do no have to share it and lots of its consequences: there are social problems enough without that one added to the mix. Oh - just thought of another one: I think that in California you are allowed to drive what amount to home-made cars... Our roads see enough kills without that added risk! Your constitution is probably quite logical, apart from bits of it - Amendments oft quoted - that allow you access to weapons of mass murder.

4.  Nothing unusual or uniquely American here: the difference is that we have - or should I say had - a better central system that is slowly being eaten away by the central govt. trying to fend off Scottish Independence by letting more and more local taxation be raised there, which for starters, has resulted in the poor Scotls having to pay more taxes when they buy a house. As not all Scots buy houses, that may do the Nats. no harm in their search for separation votes, thus ironically defeating the central govt. that tried that sop of extended powers for the locals in order to stem their departure. Also, as with your lot, our two lands of many voices are still essentially limited to two broad political choices, both of which are growing ever more radicalised. The only thing worse is having too many choices, where we end up with a weak coalition that can be neither one thing nor the other, with neither conviction nor power to get anything done to the full.

5.  Diversity is the pronouncement hailed by our own radical left, principally as an attempt to gather the votes of the immigrant population. Again, and even more ironically than most ironies, it's the very people who traditionally voted left who also voted Brexit in order to get rid of friggin' minorities! Oy vey, ain't nuttin' like politicians to screw up: the left's much promoted chorus chanting the technicolor promises of diversity is exactly the birdsong that handed them their greatest defeat in many, many decades and resulted in the scalping of a host of ultra-lefties!

6.  Your freedoms (and social benefits in the UK) as ours, inspire all of those who come from places where they are economically and socially worse off. Trouble is, the promised lands usually turn out to leave them no better off than where they started their journey. My mind doesn't stretch to thinking that spending every freezing night under a French or English bridge is in any way better than spending it under a warm one in Bombay or Mexico City. When about the only work you can get to keep from starving is selling drugs on the street, you are far worse off than you were at home.

However, if you have the desired qualifications, you can always try to enter a country legally. If they need what you offer, you are in. And that's the way it should be. I chose to come to Spain, mostly for logistical reasons related to my professional travel and photography. I got in at a time when I was not simply allowed so to do because of European agreements to do with the Common Market, but because I could show myself not to be a drain on the Spanish economy. Quite the opposite: I spent my money here and bought Spanish-built property. And after doing so once when I was allowed to do it, I decided never to vote locally again because I could never understand local politics intimately and well enough, and though voting was now a right, I felt I really had no business voting in another person's country. I was grateful enough to be allowed to live here in peace and harmony without the arrogance to attempt to bend their land to my thinking.

;-)

James Clark

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #1505 on: April 16, 2020, 04:45:59 pm »

Be nice, Rob.  I've owned a Caterham.

:D



3.  The only freedom that the rest of us may lack, again that comes to mind, is your unfortunate right to carry lethal weapons around. To me, I am glad we do no have to share it and lots of its consequences: there are social problems enough without that one added to the mix. Oh - just thought of another one: I think that in California you are allowed to drive what amount to home-made cars... Our roads see enough kills without that added risk! Your constitution is probably quite logical, apart from bits of it - Amendments oft quoted - that allow you access to weapons of mass murder.


« Last Edit: April 16, 2020, 04:49:12 pm by James Clark »
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chez

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #1506 on: April 16, 2020, 04:51:15 pm »

Perhaps this will help you....Rich Lowry is not a "leftie" but here is a pretty good argument for the lockdown.
"An irony of the coronavirus debate is that the more successful lockdowns are in squelching the disease, the more vulnerable they will be to attack as unnecessary in the first place."

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/04/15/the-absurd-case-against-the-coronavirus-lockdown-189265

We've seen a lot of that type of logic right here in this thread. It seems like some people are going to be pissed off for locking down unless they see 200,000 deaths.
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Craig Lamson

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #1507 on: April 16, 2020, 05:16:40 pm »

Be nice, Rob.  I've owned a Caterham.

:D

Nice. I had friend with a Lotus Super Seven.  I photographed it once for an ad for floor paint.  I never drove it but did do a bit of shotgun.  An amazing car.
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Craig Lamson

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #1508 on: April 16, 2020, 05:41:40 pm »

Sorry for the delay in getting back to you: had to do bothersome duties such as washing the lunch (that's true hyperbole!) dishes; I realised that apart from making and eating said travesty of a meal, I have spent the entire rest of the morning and afternoon devoted to LuLa. That is hardly healthy. Anyway.

1.  You might find that you are "like that" that because its what you are stuck with, know, and are without a snowball's of changing it;

I have the ability to move elsewhere should I chose.  I don't.

Quote
2.  I think of it as a flaw because it removes consistency in law and its application. You can carry a gun in one state and yet not in another. Crazy. That such confusion may be characterised as a godsend is quite informative; you may actually be more French than you imagined. Success has come your way for much the same reasons as it did to both post-war Germany and post-war Japan: you started from zero (but in your case, with the added fiscal advantage of slavery). Being split into disperate identities had little to do with it - at least that I can instantly detect. Also, you had the opportunity of space, whereas most European countries are relatively little in size.

States with different rules give one the chance to live where the rules most fully fit them.  Not everyone wants the same thing.

Quote
3.  The only freedom that the rest of us may lack, again that comes to mind, is your unfortunate right to carry lethal weapons around. To me, I am glad we do no have to share it and lots of its consequences: there are social problems enough without that one added to the mix. Oh - just thought of another one: I think that in California you are allowed to drive what amount to home-made cars... Our roads see enough kills without that added risk! Your constitution is probably quite logical, apart from bits of it - Amendments oft quoted - that allow you access to weapons of mass murder.

Theres is that different states have different rules thing again. You dont like guns, live in a state that is more restrictive.  Really love them, you can find places that fit that too. That applies to many freedoms.

Quote
4.  Nothing unusual or uniquely American here: the difference is that we have - or should I say had - a better central system that is slowly being eaten away by the central govt. trying to fend off Scottish Independence by letting more and more local taxation be raised there, which for starters, has resulted in the poor Scotls having to pay more taxes when they buy a house. As not all Scots buy houses, that may do the Nats. no harm in their search for separation votes, thus ironically defeating the central govt. that tried that sop of extended powers for the locals in order to stem their departure. Also, as with your lot, our two lands of many voices are still essentially limited to two broad political choices, both of which are growing ever more radicalised. The only thing worse is having too many choices, where we end up with a weak coalition that can be neither one thing nor the other, with neither conviction nor power to get anything done to the full.

Again it trancends national politics and get more real on the local level.  You have 50 choices, if you choose to be an American.

Quote
5.  Diversity is the pronouncement hailed by our own radical left, principally as an attempt to gather the votes of the immigrant population. Again, and even more ironically than most ironies, it's the very people who traditionally voted left who also voted Brexit in order to get rid of friggin' minorities! Oy vey, ain't nuttin' like politicians to screw up: the left's much promoted chorus chanting the technicolor promises of diversity is exactly the birdsong that handed them their greatest defeat in many, many decades and resulted in the scalping of a host of ultra-lefties!


Since pretty much everyone in America has imported roots, our so called "melting pot' has produced a lot of great things.  Not saying more that less diverse society is a bad thing, and you are correct that a lot of countries are losing that. 

Quote
6.  Your freedoms (and social benefits in the UK) as ours, inspire all of those who come from places where they are economically and socially worse off. Trouble is, the promised lands usually turn out to leave them no better off than where they started their journey. My mind doesn't stretch to thinking that spending every freezing night under a French or English bridge is in any way better than spending it under a warm one in Bombay or Mexico City. When about the only work you can get to keep from starving is selling drugs on the street, you are far worse off than you were at home.

However, if you have the desired qualifications, you can always try to enter a country legally. If they need what you offer, you are in. And that's the way it should be. I chose to come to Spain, mostly for logistical reasons related to my professional travel and photography. I got in at a time when I was not simply allowed so to do because of European agreements to do with the Common Market, but because I could show myself not to be a drain on the Spanish economy. Quite the opposite: I spent my money here and bought Spanish-built property. And after doing so once when I was allowed to do it, I decided never to vote locally again because I could never understand local politics intimately and well enough, and though voting was now a right, I felt I really had no business voting in another person's country. I was grateful enough to be allowed to live here in peace and harmony without the arrogance to attempt to bend their land to my thinking.

;-)

People should be able to find a place that fits them somewhere in the world.  Not everyone can.  All I ask is that it is done legally.   Personally I'm blessed to have been  born an American. I dont ever want to take that for granted.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2020, 06:12:59 pm by Craig Lamson »
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LesPalenik

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #1509 on: April 16, 2020, 05:55:05 pm »

While the corona virus crisis is not letting up, Trump's wall building efforts are intensifying.

Quote
While most of the U.S. has been slowed by the COVID-19 crisis - which has infected nearly 650,000 Americans and killed at least 32,000 more - Trump’s efforts to construct a southern border wall has only gained steam.

In the past 12 months, the administration opened 41 cases in federal court to seize land to build a wall along the southern border of Texas. Nearly half of those cases – 16, or 39 percent - were filed in the past two months.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-trump-wall-exclusive/exclusive-as-the-u-s-shut-down-trumps-legal-fight-to-build-wall-ramped-up-idUSKCN21Y2DR?il=0
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James Clark

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #1510 on: April 16, 2020, 06:09:42 pm »

Nice. I had friend with a Lotus Super Seven.  I photographed it once for an ad for floor paint.  I never drove it but did do a bit of shotgun.  An amazing car.

It was a great little car on the track.  Totally useless (and really frightening) on the road, but those crazy Brits actually drive them around over there :D
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PeterAit

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #1511 on: April 16, 2020, 06:22:55 pm »

Really!?

Let's see how that works for the poor in India,  black ghettos in the States, favelas in Latin America. How easy is to enjoy splendid isolation when you are living on a $1 a month (from a friend in Venezuela):

Amen. I shudder at what may yet happen in places like India, Nicaragua, Bangladesh, and so on.
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Craig Lamson

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #1512 on: April 16, 2020, 06:23:47 pm »

It was a great little car on the track.  Totally useless (and really frightening) on the road, but those crazy Brits actually drive them around over there :D

Found the photo. From at least 30 years ago.  Its a really crappy scan of a really wonderful 8x10 trans.

I shot this for a company call Colwell General.  They were at the time in the business of making paint color cards for different paint manufacurers. I think they still do it but Im not sure.  I set this up in the studio.
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Alan Klein

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #1513 on: April 16, 2020, 06:27:11 pm »

I am sympathetic. I went out and started my car just to make sure it still works. Unfortunately, the tank was full, so I had no excuse to drive over to the gas station.
My Lincoln in my garage here at home sent me a cellphone message to start it.  Apparently, after a specific time without running, it notifies the owner to run it before everything breaks down and batteries go dead.  It's smarter than me.  :)  I checked the gage and saw that I have enough gas for 315 mile range.  That's enough to get me to 6-7 other states where I won't have anything to do when I get there.

Rob C

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #1514 on: April 16, 2020, 06:29:47 pm »

Really!?

Let's see how that works for the poor in India,  black ghettos in the States, favelas in Latin America. How easy is to enjoy splendid isolation when you are living on a $1 a month (from a friend in Venezuela):

Again, you are talking about a different problem. The old guys who went up Puig Maria did it to escape the plague by not being with other people who could probably pass it to them. Again: the answer to escape was - and remains to this day - keeping well away from others. Whether the poor can or can not do the same is not the point. As I already stressed: the point is the efficacy of distance. And that is the entirety of the point, not to be confused with whether or not the poor can or can not achieve it. It isn't a moral judgement: it's a distinct one of logic. Trying to cloud the issue don't cut it. And ignoring or attempting to devalue the logic of distance does the poor absolutely no good at all.

Alan Klein

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #1515 on: April 16, 2020, 06:31:02 pm »

You been there much Joe? Know anything about Cuba other than what your American propoganda machine feeds you?

I've actually used the Cuban medical system and they did a fine job for free. Their philosophy is medical treatment is a right...not something that is bought.

Yes doctors are not paid as much as in the USA...but talking with the ones working there, they are very proud to be of such value to their society. That is why they went into medicine...to help people, not to buy Beverly Hills mansions and drive new Porches every year.
Too bad they don't think liberty is a right.

Alan Klein

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #1516 on: April 16, 2020, 06:32:19 pm »

Joe, it seems to me you are not looking for a leader, what you are looking for is a clairvoyant.... ;D
Isn't that the same as what you expect of the president?

Rob C

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #1517 on: April 16, 2020, 06:39:10 pm »

But of course, quite an appropriate response for the Queen's subjects. Surfedom goes through generations and millenia. That's why freedom-loving individuals kicked the Brits out in America.

I think you're confusing the Brits with the Beach Boys, Slobodan.

:-)
« Last Edit: April 17, 2020, 07:14:56 am by Rob C »
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Alan Klein

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #1518 on: April 16, 2020, 06:42:14 pm »

Perhaps this will help you....Rich Lowry is not a "leftie" but here is a pretty good argument for the lockdown.
"An irony of the coronavirus debate is that the more successful lockdowns are in squelching the disease, the more vulnerable they will be to attack as unnecessary in the first place."

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/04/15/the-absurd-case-against-the-coronavirus-lockdown-189265
Everyone's guessing.  How do we know that countries that did a crappy job with isolation, will wind up with better long term natural immunity and economies because of it?  History has a funny way of fooling us.  There are just too many unknowns to make too many assumptions. Don't get too cocky. 

Rob C

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #1519 on: April 16, 2020, 06:43:49 pm »

I am certain we have reached peak insanity and will be coming down soon enough. 

In PA, we are supposed to be wearing masks outside, regardless of what we are doing, but my wife and I are not.  It's silly and we just are not giving into the hysteria. 

Strangers on the sidewalk are now asking us, "you want to f#@&ing die?"  Then, these are the same people who insist on still paying in cash. 

All this is going to be great fodder for comics down the road.


With a modicum of good luck, you and your wife may survive to read the comics or listen to them, whatever your choice may be.

:-)
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