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Author Topic: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political  (Read 499964 times)

JoeKitchen

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #1360 on: April 16, 2020, 09:43:47 am »

So she unfortunately did meet someone right? Furthermore high risk people.

Regards,
Bernard

Left outside her door. 

So what are you suggesting anyway?  Should she not have got her needed medication and just die from that? 
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chez

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #1361 on: April 16, 2020, 09:46:29 am »


My 86 year old aunt just caught this, and she has been held up inside for 3 to 4 weeks now without a visitor. 


Mail, food etc... It lives on things for 3 days.
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JoeKitchen

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #1362 on: April 16, 2020, 09:47:48 am »

Facebook works to try and rehabilitate the WHO too...

Facebook will start steering users who interact with coronavirus misinformation to WHO
The move by Facebook is just the most recent step in an aggressive and coordinated response by it and other tech companies to promote facts and guidance from reputable sources.



https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/facebook-will-start-notifying-users-who-interact-coronavirus-misinformation-n1185146

It's just so funny, they don't even realize yet how he goaded them into this. 

No one, and I mean not a single person I speak to except for far left people, thinks the WHO has an credibility left. 
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JoeKitchen

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #1363 on: April 16, 2020, 09:48:34 am »

Mail, food etc... It lives on things for 3 days.

You know what also happens in three days? 

Food can spoil, especially if you are leaving it outside so you dont touch it, and you may die from not taking your required medication. 
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #1364 on: April 16, 2020, 09:49:08 am »

Point is, Bernard keeps on acting like no Dem, not a single Dem, holds any responsibility here.  And it obvious he has a soft spot for Cuomo.  But the media is finally truly accessing what went so wrong, and Cuomo is in the crosshairs.  Sure, Trump got hit too, but you cant have a NYTs story without hitting Trump, but now even the Times is going after Cuomo.

I have absolutely never written that governors, democrat or republicans, had no responsibility.

I hardly know who Cuomo is. I just thought he was spot on in his description of Trumps delayed actions, lack of leadership and prioritization of economy over the life of people.

Cheers,
Bernard

JoeKitchen

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #1365 on: April 16, 2020, 09:52:59 am »

I have absolutely never written that governors, democrat or republicans, had no responsibility.

I hardly know who Cuomo is. I just thought he was spot on in his description of Trumps delayed actions, lack of leadership and prioritization of economy over the life of people.

Cheers,
Bernard

And yet he delayed even longer then Trump suggested nationally. 

You are just being fooled by his calm collected manner, but none the less you are letting yourself be fooled.  Cuomo is, by your standards, more to blame than Trump.  You constantly using him as an example, of whatever, shows you are either not as informed as you think you are or are complicatedly portraying a false narrative.   
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chez

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #1366 on: April 16, 2020, 09:55:12 am »

Just food for thought for those of you who think the experts are always right and should be trusted out right. 

SCIENCE’S UNDER-DISCUSSED PROBLEM WITH CONFIRMATION BIAS

Research scientists are under pressure to get published in the most prominent journals possible, and their chances increase considerably if they find positive (thus “impactful”) results. For journals, the appeal is clear, writes Philip Ball for Nautilus: they’ll make a bigger splash if they discover some new truth, rather than if they simply refuted old findings. The reality is that science rarely produces data so appealing.

The quest for publication has led some scientists to manipulate data, analysis, and even their original hypotheses. In 2014, John Ioannidis, a Stanford professor conducting researching on research (or ‘meta-research’), found that across the scientific field, “many new proposed associations and/or effects are false or grossly exaggerated.” Ioannidis, who estimates that 85 percent of research resources are wasted, claims that the frequency of positive results well exceeds how often one should expect to find them. He pleads with the academic world to put less emphasis on “positive” findings.


Most often experts are on the edge of the unknown..otherwise if everyone knows it...you are not an expert. Just by thus nature...it is very hard to be right on things not known yet. I'll ask you this if you are getting you appendix removed, would you trust your expert ( surgeon ) or the kid at the 7-11? Remember the surgeon loses some patients...so they are not perfect.
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elliot_n

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #1367 on: April 16, 2020, 09:57:26 am »

Facebook works to try and rehabilitate the WHO too...

Facebook will start steering users who interact with coronavirus misinformation to WHO
The move by Facebook is just the most recent step in an aggressive and coordinated response by it and other tech companies to promote facts and guidance from reputable sources.



https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/facebook-will-start-notifying-users-who-interact-coronavirus-misinformation-n1185146

Facebook is directing people to this WHO page that dispels Covid misinformation:

https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/advice-for-public/myth-busters

Is there anything there that you have a problem with? Would you prefer people to be denied this public health information?
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faberryman

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #1368 on: April 16, 2020, 09:59:39 am »

Also, why didn't NYS have enough PPE equipment?
For the same reason my grocery didn't have enough Cheerios. What a surprise.
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JoeKitchen

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #1369 on: April 16, 2020, 09:59:57 am »

Most often experts are on the edge of the unknown..otherwise if everyone knows it...you are not an expert. Just by thus nature...it is very hard to be right on things not known yet. I'll ask you this if you are getting you appendix removed, would you trust your expert ( surgeon ) or the kid at the 7-11? Remember the surgeon loses some patients...so they are not perfect.

There is a very long history of appendix operations to reference so as to make sure you are not going to screw up.  This, by definition, means it does not fit into your working "on the edge of the unknown." 

However, there is no history of forcibly shutting down the entire world to reference to make sure we are not screwing it up.  Not to mention we still know very little about the virus, such as the true fatality rate.  And since "it is very hard to be right on things not known yet," we could very well be totally botching this right now. 

This means there is nothing wrong with questioning the narrative, since you yourself say it is so easy to not be right in a situation like this. 
« Last Edit: April 16, 2020, 10:09:10 am by JoeKitchen »
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faberryman

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #1370 on: April 16, 2020, 10:02:37 am »

And yet he delayed even longer then Trump suggested nationally. 

You are just being fooled by his calm collected manner, but none the less you are letting yourself be fooled.  Cuomo is, by your standards, more to blame than Trump.  You constantly using him as an example, of whatever, shows you are either not as informed as you think you are or are complicatedly portraying a false narrative.
How does blaming Cuomo exonerate Trump?
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JoeKitchen

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #1371 on: April 16, 2020, 10:07:17 am »

How does blaming Cuomo exonerate Trump?

It does not, but I am not the one insisting on blaming Trump while continually referencing Cuomo and not saying anything about his guilt.

I am merely pointing out the hypocrisy Bernard is using by doing so. 

And, like I said, I neither blame Trump nor Cuomo; I do not give into the hindsight fallacy. 
« Last Edit: April 16, 2020, 10:14:22 am by JoeKitchen »
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faberryman

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #1372 on: April 16, 2020, 10:07:56 am »

It's just so funny, they don't even realize yet how he goaded them into this. 

No one, and I mean not a single person I speak to except for far left people, thinks the WHO has an credibility left.
Yes, he goaded people into blaming WHO. What else in new. He has suckered a lot of people into believing a lot of things.
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faberryman

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #1373 on: April 16, 2020, 10:09:03 am »

And, like I said, I neither blame Trump nor Cuomo; I do not give into the hindsight fallacy.
It is a bias, not a fallacy.
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JoeKitchen

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #1374 on: April 16, 2020, 10:10:54 am »

It is a bias, not a fallacy.

No, it's both!

It is a fallacy to blame someone in hindsight using information discovered after the fact, hence hindsight fallacy. 

The bias is only applying that to one side and not the other, which is what many are doing.
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Craig Lamson

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #1375 on: April 16, 2020, 10:11:19 am »

There is a very long history of appendix operations to reference so as to make sure you are not going to screw up.  This, by definition, means it does not fit into your working "on the edge of the unknown." 

However, there is no history of forcibly shutting down the entire world to reference to make sure we are not screwing it up.  And since "it is very hard to be right on things not known yet," we could very well be totally botching this right now. 

This means there is nothing wrong with questioning the narrative, since you yourself say it is so easy to not be right in a situation like this.

So let me see what Chez is saying.  Experts can't be expected to always be right because of the unusual circumstances, so lets cut themsome slack here.  However Trump SHOULD have known better therefor he is responsible for deaths, even though he took the word of "experts" who don't always get it right and deserve a break.

And of course in bizzarro Bernard world, Trump is now responsible for 90% of the US deaths.

Oh so "logical".
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Craig Lamson

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #1376 on: April 16, 2020, 10:12:01 am »

For the same reason my grocery didn't have enough Cheerios. What a surprise.

Costco has a mountain of Cheerios.
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JoeKitchen

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #1377 on: April 16, 2020, 10:13:34 am »

Yes, he goaded people into blaming WHO. What else in new. He has suckered a lot of people into believing a lot of things.

No, he goaded people into debating whether or not WHO is to blame and away from only discussing his response.   Politically it was a brilliant move, especially since most agree WHO holds a lot of responsibility. 

I am just surprised after 4 years, the left still falls for this. 
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Rob C

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #1378 on: April 16, 2020, 10:23:45 am »

Yea, right, too bad he is dumber than a box of rocks when it comes to how the USA actually works and his "arguments" and 'observations" are void of all logic for this very reason.


The US works pretty poorly in a great many respects, just as does any country. The US is mainly different in that its population likes to have lots of guns and is obsessed with this fear of being robbed of some archaic rights long irrelevant to today's world, and actually more than a little counterproductive to its wellbeing today.

It does have the problem of having to cope with having far too many different races and religions deeply built into its structure, thus losing a common sense of national unity that runs second to its senses of colour and original ethnicity from Europe and elsewhere. Those things aside, it contains the usual mixture of wise men and idiots as does almost anywhere else. In fact it may, in a sense, be ahead of the curve: much of Europe is building up for itself through immigration that very same state of lack of national unity and of conflicting religions and language to be found in America already.

That the fragmentation of legal and political control is so prevalent in your country, with different states free to go the way their governors think may get them re-elected is one reason why you face many of the current problems that you do and why fierce fights develop. Nobody speaks with one voice - they can't.

Frankly, you represent the wost-case scenario of what Europe might become, much the reason for the victory of the Brexiteers who saw too much integration turning a loose alliance of business and social convenience into something closer to the States. As long as Britain kept its own currency, all it had to do was take advantage of the bonuses of membership. In reality, it always controlled its own borders, and well before joining the political entity of the Community it had already lost any idea of how many people were inside there legally or otherwise. Controlling your own borders should never be taken to imply that you can or do do it well.

Understanding how the USA works is not rocket science: internationally, we get deep lessons of it every bloody day on our tv screens. Or at least, we did before lock-down stopped reporters from doing that.

Rob C

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #1379 on: April 16, 2020, 10:39:19 am »



You don't see the inherent contradiction? Not everyone is as wealthy today either.


That is another false argument: it has nothing to do with wealth; it has everything to do with being apart from other people. That is the entirety of the topic: isolation from other people. It proved that the old guys knew what they were doing back then. They survived where millions perished.

The idea is that we are all stuck in the same lifeboat and need to respect common sense by doing what is obvious: not infecting others and not taking the chance of allowing ourselves to become infected by proximity to other people who may or may not be carriers. In effect, not rocking that poor old lifeboat through machismo and appeals to rights suddenly and illogically imagined to be under attack.
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