PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political

[armand]

Oh Armand, how many times do I need to remind you before you stop forgetting, only the very first 2.2M Imperial college model did not account for what  we have been doing.  Every model since then has, and they just keep on coming down and down and down and down and down and ...   

You're loosing the conversation here.  Give it another two weeks and people wont give a damn anymore.  Protests are popping up all over the country. 

Either accept a controlled get back to work process or it will just open up. 

And last, stop giving me this it will bite you bull shit.  I am a young healthy person, and no one like me is dying from this.  Stop with the Trump like hyperbole you dislike so much.

I'm losing in your mind maybe. I kept explaining how the models are being adjusted, I shared multiple links from reputable sources so you can see for yourself but I don't think you want to learn or are willing to change your opinion if it doesn't fit your already preformed idea.

I said nothing against a controlled get back to work, this is not what these guys are doing. And about his controlled, do you know what this implies? ....
For starters you need to be able to test people to see who was infected and can safely go back to work, then to be able to track new infections. How close are we to this? I can tell it's not ready now.

Bite bullshit? You need to educate yourself. I'm dead serious here. I can joke and troll but not about this. While statistically young people dies less, they do get sick and die. I know of multiple cases in their 30's-40's who died in the ICU. Statistics are a bitch, you might have a change of 1% to die, but if you happen to be in those 1% does it matter?

The other point, which is quite naive, people assume these disease it's like a digital program, you get 0 or 1. Unfortunately, you don't have to die to have your life changed forever. Even if you recover, it will take quite some times. There are multiple reports on long term damage from this. Don't be so cavalier about it. I think I'm younger than you and I don't feel safe.

[JoeKitchen]

Yeh...great job. 25,000 dead so far and counting. States bickering with Trump and between themselves. Yeh...great leadership.

And Fauci did say lives would have been saved if action was taken earlier.

Can you define exactly how Trump's decisions saved lives...

125,500+ world wide.  Why not just go full tilt and blame Trump for the entirety of them? 

Insofar as your Fauci quote, lol.  If we started preparing last August, we could have saved even more too, lol.  Another logical hindsight fallacy brought to us by the press. 

[JoeKitchen]

I'm losing in your mind maybe. I kept explaining how the models are being adjusted, I shared multiple links from reputable sources so you can see for yourself but I don't think you want to learn or are willing to change your opinion if it doesn't fit your already preformed idea.

I said nothing against a controlled get back to work, this is not what these guys are doing. And about his controlled, do you know what this implies? ....
For starters you need to be able to test people to see who was infected and can safely go back to work, then to be able to track new infections. How close are we to this? I can tell it's not ready now.

Bite bullshit? You need to educate yourself. I'm dead serious here. I can joke and troll but not about this. While statistically young people dies less, they do get sick and die. I know of multiple cases in their 30's-40's who died in the ICU. Statistics are a bitch, you might have a change of 1% to die, but if you happen to be in those 1% does it matter?

The other point, which is quite naive, people assume these disease it's like a digital program, you get 0 or 1. Unfortunately, you don't have to die to have your life changed forever. Even if you recover, it will take quite some times. There are multiple reports on long term damage from this. Don't be so cavalier about it. I think I'm younger than you and I don't feel safe.

LOL, Armand, and no, I understand how the models work.  But I also understand that as situations change, plans must as well, something which you cant seem to grasp. 

Last, as I said, I am young and need not worry as much.  Do I want to get it?  No.  Am I going to allow my life to be controlled by an insignificant fatality rate?  No, not at all. 

Last, we simply dont have the luxury of waiting another few months to get tests flying out the door.  We dont have that time, not for a desease such as this with such a low fatality rate amongst the young. 

Get the young back out to work so the economy does not collapse. 

[BernardLanguillier]

125,500+ world wide.  Why not just go full tilt and blame Trump for the entirety of them?

Joe,

Trump is not responsible for any death outside America, nor is he responsible for all the death in America. He is responsible for how he dealt with the pandemic though, right?

He just told us he was fully in charge and had full authority over the States.

We have a totally clear view on what was done too late in the US and a total certainty that it has resulted in thousands of deaths.

what part don't you agree with?

Regards,
Bernard

[armand]

Give me a break.  I know people in Australia, and other countries, who could care less about Trump and lean to the left that are calling for WHO to be broken up and defunded.

You're living in a fantasy brought on by your rabbit TDS. 

The only people I know who are against this are those who dislike Trump so much they have a built in sub-conscience reaction to go against everything he says.  That's it, those are the only people who disagree with this.

There are people unhappy with WHO but that's not why Trump failed.

Calling me names won't get you anywhere. As opposed to you I see the real part of this.

Alan said the the Feds supplied all the PPEs that were needed, even that there is some excess.
This a blatant lie.
It also shows that you guys have no shame in trying to defend Trump. Ask those nurses who used trash bags to protect themselves how they feel about this. Or the countless healthcare personal who got sick because of lack of PPE.

[chez]

125,500+ world wide.  Why not just go full tilt and blame Trump for the entirety of them?

Nope...trump stepped into his own dodo and so far 25,000 people paid the price.

New York still hot. New Jersey still hit. Massachusetts heating up. Michigan Heating up. Pennsylvania heating up. Illinois heating up. Louisiana heating up. Many states still in their infancy.

Yeh...lets open it up May 1.

[JoeKitchen]

Joe,

Trump is not responsible for any death outside America, nor is he responsible for all the death in America. He is responsible for how he dealt with the pandemic though, right?

He just told us he was fully in charge and had full authority over the States.

We have a totally clear view on what was done too late in the US and a total certainty that it has resulted in thousands of deaths.

what part don't you agree with?

Regards,
Bernard

Well, he does not have total control, which was kind of a head scratching moment. 

But the fact remains, under the circumstances at the time, and what we knew then, I can not fault Trump for what he did or did not do, especially when nearly everyone in the world was criticizing him for what he was doing.  I know many Democrats who will never vote for Trump who tell me the same thing in private. 

[Chris Kern]

We took precautions.  Masks and eye glasses.  Hand sanitizer often.  We wiped each food item with santitizing wipes before it entered the house.  Our shoes never entered the house, and we washed our hands quite a few times as we cleaned and put away our purchases.  We washed out coats and hats, along with the clothes we wore and then took a shower.  Maybe overkill but we have nothing but time on our hands so why not.

Very similar to my grocery shopping ritual except for the hand sanitizer.  I don't use hand sanitizer while shopping; however, I'm fastidious about not touching my face until I have returned home and scrubbed.  One of the benefits of wearing a face mask is that it helps you remember not to touch your face.  Unfortunately, I've seen people in supermarkets fiddling with their masks and even lowering them below their noses so they can breathe more comfortably.  I keep my credit card and car keys in a "dirty" jacket pocket so I don't need access to my wallet or pants pockets during the shopping trip.  When I return home I clean all my purchases with medical wipes containing ammonium quaternary compounds, then, after the surfaces have dried, wipe them with water-soaked paper towels to reduce the chemical residue and let them dry again before storing them.  Yes: probably overkill, but my wife and I are in a high-risk age group and both of us have chronic medical conditions that might amplify the risk of a COVID-19 infection.

[JoeKitchen]

There are people unhappy with WHO but that's not why Trump failed.

Calling me names won't get you anywhere. As opposed to you I see the real part of this.

Alan said the the Feds supplied all the PPEs that were needed, even that there is some excess.
This a blatant lie.
It also shows that you guys have no shame in trying to defend Trump. Ask those nurses who used trash bags to protect themselves how they feel about this. Or the countless healthcare personal who got sick because of lack of PPE.

And where did I call you a name? 

And now we are blaming Trump for lack of PPE?  Sorry, I missed that one. 

I would think, like a reasonable person, that since manufacturing was all shipped over to China and the delays in shipping along with supply lines shutting down was the reason for lack of PPE in the hand full of cases, but I guess I was wrong. 

[JoeKitchen]

Nope...trump stepped into his own dodo and so far 25,000 people paid the price.

New York still hot. New Jersey still hit. Massachusetts heating up. Michigan Heating up. Pennsylvania heating up. Illinois heating up. Louisiana heating up. Many states still in their infancy.

Yeh...lets open it up May 1.

You guys really are loosing your minds.  It's sad to think about. 

You write this 25K death number as if Trump could have magically prevented anyone from dying if he only acted a little sooner.  Just a little sooner, and we would have prevent all death in America. 

It's a delusion. 

2.2M dead, Trump would have hell to pay.  25K, that's not that much when you consider how many people die per day on average in USA. 

[elliot_n]

.... and they just keep on coming down and down and down and down and down and ...     

This model just went up — an extra 9,000 deaths in the US:

https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-states-of-america

[JoeKitchen]

This model just went up — an extra 9,000 deaths in the US:

https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-states-of-america

Let me know when it gets back up to 200K or more, you know, the numbers we based the current plant off of that we refuse to change. 

[chez]

And where did I call you a name? 

And now we are blaming Trump for lack of PPE?  Sorry, I missed that one. 

I would think, like a reasonable person, that since manufacturing was all shipped over to China and the delays in shipping along with supply lines shutting down was the reason for lack of PPE in the hand full of cases, but I guess I was wrong.

What about those empty shelves he blained Obama for...why were they not stocked up in the last 3 years? It's one thing to notice empty shelves and blaim your predecessor...but totally irresponsible to keep those shelves empty for 3 more years.

[JoeKitchen]

What about those empty shelves he blained Obama for...why were they not stocked up in the last 3 years? It's one thing to notice empty shelves and blaim your predecessor...but totally irresponsible to keep those shelves empty for 3 more years.

Well he did not notice them until after the fact and it was brought to his attention. 

So I would say he and Obama both hold blame for it.  Of course Obama is blaming the Republicans for budget cuts preventing him from restocking, so it is not like the Dems are owning up to it either. 

I will say it is a example of how much government sucks across the board regardless of administration.  The hospitals relied on the stategic reserve to help them out in a time like this, and it is the government that failed them, both Democratic and Republican governments. 

[chez]

You guys really are loosing your minds.  It's sad to think about. 

You write this 25K death number as if Trump could have magically prevented anyone from dying if he only acted a little sooner.  Just a little sooner, and we would have prevent all death in America. 

It's a delusion. 

2.2M dead, Trump would have hell to pay.  25K, that's not that much when you consider how many people die per day on average in USA.

Not all could have been prevented...but many could have.

And you throw around 25K is nothing...have you lost someone close to you. Maybe if you did...your mother or father...lying with a tube down their throat, hands tied down...all by themselves...you might have some compassion to those that lost someone. To them it's not 25K needless deaths...it's just 1.

Has Trump really made you so insensitive to humanity?

[chez]

Well he did not notice them until after the fact and it was brought to his attention. 

Proof?

[armand]

Let me know when it gets back up to 200K or more, you know, the numbers we based the current plant off of that we refuse to change.

It will get there after few gatherings of people too bored to stay home.
Nobody is that safe; even if you don't get that sick, you can infect others. I agree that you have to get the economy started, but so far I saw nothing that is even remotely close to a plan. It's also not enough to have a plan, but also the means to execute it.

And now we are blaming Trump for lack of PPE?  Sorry, I missed that one. 

Blame is shared here and I detailed many times in the past how I think it is. What I took personal offense here is the blatant lie that the Feds provided all the PPEs that were needed, and we even have extras.

[JoeKitchen]

Not all could have been prevented...but many could have.

And you throw around 25K is nothing...have you lost someone close to you. Maybe if you did...your mother or father...lying with a tube down their throat, hands tied down...all by themselves...you might have some compassion to those that lost someone. To them it's not 25K needless deaths...it's just 1.

Has Trump really made you so insensitive to humanity?

Well Trump hasn't.  I've always been non-emotional when talking about such things for a long long time.  Like I said before, I just don't understand how someone can let their emotions dictate their logic when thinking about such things as "academically" as we are. 

But anyway, not all you say.  Well give me your number.  In your mind, what is the acceptable number of deaths the USA should experience from this? 

[Alan Klein]

You have to have a mind in the first place.

I'm sure you have some great ideas of how we can get the economy going with the least possible medical risk.  Would you like to share them with us?

[JoeKitchen]

It will get there after few gatherings of people too bored to stay home.
Nobody is that safe; even if you don't get that sick, you can infect others. I agree that you have to get the economy started, but so far I saw nothing that is even remotely close to a plan. It's also not enough to have a plan, but also the means to execute it.
Blame is shared here and I detailed many times in the past how I think it is. What I took personal offense here is the blatant lie that the Feds provided all the PPEs that were needed, and we even have extras.

Well I never said that nor did  I call you a name.