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Author Topic: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political  (Read 509271 times)

JoeKitchen

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #640 on: April 13, 2020, 03:22:03 pm »

Ah, I see Trump tweeted on the matter a few hours ago:

For the purpose of creating conflict and confusion, some in the Fake News Media are saying that it is the Governors decision to open up the states, not that of the President of the United States & the Federal Government. Let it be fully understood that this is incorrect. It is the decision of the President, and for many good reasons.

Hmm, confusing to say the least.

Well's its Trump tweeting, so what do you expect?  He's not really known to be factual on twitter.   

The fact is that it is not the call, legally, of the president. 

However, I fully expect that if Trump says to open it up, many in every state wont care at all about what their governors say.  Like I said before, if enough people scoff at the law, you cant enforce it. 

Just to add to Armand's post, how long can you actually expect people to listen to medical experts who's models are shown to be wrong week after week after week after week after ... you get the point. 
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chez

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #641 on: April 13, 2020, 03:26:43 pm »

Ah, I see Trump tweeted on the matter a few hours ago:

For the purpose of creating conflict and confusion, some in the Fake News Media are saying that it is the Governors decision to open up the states, not that of the President of the United States & the Federal Government. Let it be fully understood that this is incorrect. It is the decision of the President, and for many good reasons.

Hmm, confusing to say the least.

Either Trump is wrong ( not hard to imagine ) or our internet experts are wrong.
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faberryman

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #642 on: April 13, 2020, 03:29:10 pm »

Ah, I see Trump tweeted on the matter a few hours ago:

For the purpose of creating conflict and confusion, some in the Fake News Media are saying that it is the Governors decision to open up the states, not that of the President of the United States & the Federal Government. Let it be fully understood that this is incorrect. It is the decision of the President, and for many good reasons.

Hmm, confusing to say the least.

That “Let it be fully understood” language is Stephen Miller’s handiwork. Typical BS.
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JoeKitchen

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #643 on: April 13, 2020, 03:56:41 pm »

I got a buddy who works for Boeing.  They have shut down for the time being but plan on going back to work next Monday.  As far as they are concerned, our governor can screw himself; they answer to the DoD and will be back into full operation at the executive office's request if it comes. 

So I guess he does have some say. 
« Last Edit: April 13, 2020, 04:05:15 pm by JoeKitchen »
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PeterAit

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #644 on: April 13, 2020, 04:09:42 pm »

Kentucky churchgoers met with nails on road, police record license plates for Easter Sunday service

Going to a grocery is arguably of more danger and not illegal, so it is this type of over reach that I think will end political careers. 

Fox News, eh? That beacon of accuracy and truth.

But a more accurate headline for the story would be "Nincompoop pastor ignored state orders and advice of medical experts to hold an in-person service."

And people need food. They may want religious services, but do not need them.



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Rob C

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #645 on: April 13, 2020, 04:22:18 pm »

Sad to see people here writing themselves into some of the impossible positions that they have engineeered for themselves. 

This virus event has shown that even economic sense is befuddled with delusions that it's better to be dead than not working. In that link to Peter Turnley posted today, he mentions that 60% of Americans don't have 600 bucks in the bank. If accurate, that's a truly awful indictment of the American way of life, of capitalism at work and of the lack of charity towards other people of your own country.

In its way, it underscores something I have mentioned here before: the blind faith in Big Capitalism is apparently supported by some of the very people who haven't a penny of their own to shake a stick at, but can't bring themselves to see (or admit it if indeed they do see) that capitalism has left them in the rubbish bin; that the only beneficiaries of it are the rich. In other words, turkeys very frequently do vote for X'mas. I think the emotion that drives this paradox is pride: folks can't admit to themselves that they are not actually amongst the winners in life, and voting in any way other than the way that some think the wealthy might vote would be an admission of their real status quo.

Reality appears to confirm that moving out of the social group/class into which you are born is well-night impossible in almost all cases: you don't get the education, you don't meet the right people en route and you mostly don't even start life with expectations. That there have been exceptions more than proves this rule to be how life works out.

So how to lift people's lives a little bit? We may yet see it stem from this pandemic. It wouldn't surprise me to see more places adopt a totally free-at-delivery health service such as that in many European countries - America might prove be one such early post-Corinna adopter of national health services that are absolute; these do not, by the way, deny anyone the privilege of paying big additional bucks for a private health service insurance. Here in Spain many do just that, as did I for a lot of years whilst having the option of the national one too. And for those countries where a national health service is long established, I think the difference is going to come in the way that it gets financed: after this event, few will accept that it return to being the underfunded thing that it has been for so long. Real money will be given to it and it will really be seen as the numero uno thing of importance in one's public/social existence, not just a token totem that fulfils a visible and expected rôle but remains perennially underfunded. For years, all its junior doctors, nurses etc. have been treated badly, overworked and relatively underpaid. I know of junior docs who have left a long shift and driven straight out of hospital car parks to their death in a road smash because already almost asleep, they were too exhausted to be capable of driving safely. That treatment of staff is insane: not only are they made dangers to themselves and others on the road, but what about the poor folks that they have to treat?

I also think that many of the things that we nearly all tended to take as vitally important will stop being seen in that light by many, many people. This madness for the latest this, that and the other can painlessly be discontinued. My ancient cellphone still works, and throwing a grand at an iPhone is not one of my needs or desires; for a start, all those gadgets are now too big and inconvenient: they would not fit the pockets where I prefer to carry my little Samsung. This could be extrapolated into all sorts of fields, and when such self-inflicted "needs" are abandoned through realisation of what traps they have been for all these years, values change - often for the better. As an example: when I was working in Britain I spent a fortune buying brand new cars every couple of years; since extricating myself from that society, I have managed to keep cars for much longer periods; my previous car must have been about twelve when I sold it, and this current one is around ten years old now. It functions perfectly. I still don't buy used; why buy somebody else's troubles?

If we grasp the potential benefits that lie behind this virus tragedy we may turn out to lead more simple and deeply more happy, stress free lives.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2020, 04:26:14 pm by Rob C »
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Alan Klein

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #646 on: April 13, 2020, 04:25:40 pm »

Personally I think the idea of China purposing releasing this to be kind of bonk, and they are just trying to cover up fro embarrassment just like the USSR did after Chernobyl.

The Wuhan virology institute has been for the last decade publishing that they have been harvesting bat corona viruses to study from the wild, and the wet market that this was suppose to come from does not sell bat.  So, this creates a strong probability that this virus accidentally escaped the facility.  If so, and since the lab is government run, this would be a huge embarrassment to China, so them engaging in damage control makes sense. 

This is similar to the Soviet Union initially creating a cover story and restricting western access at first after Chernobyl.
Chernobyl was a power plant making electricity for peaceful use.  The Wuhan facility was making bat virus.  Why?  Did they plan on weaponizing it some day?  Sure, it may have escaped by accident.  But what was the facility's purpose?  Maybe that's what they're hiding.  After their lies, can we really trust them?  This is a country that starved 30 million of it's own people 40 years for political purposes.  Do you really think they care about another 2500? 

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #647 on: April 13, 2020, 04:32:56 pm »

... a truly awful indictment of the American way of life, of capitalism at work...

Rob,

Do you laminate your card? Or let it stick out of your breast pocket, proudly beaming red?

 ;)

Alan Klein

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #648 on: April 13, 2020, 04:33:20 pm »

Oh the irony!

Why on earth are you linking to an article published by what you describe as the 'fake news press'?

What faith can you have in a story that is based on quotes from unattributed sources (e.g. 'a Chinese researcher who spoke on condition of anonymity')?

Or maybe it'a good journalism when it targets China, and only bad journalism when it targets Trump?







I deliberately picked a CNN article, among dozens with a similar report,  because they've been protecting China to make Trump look bad.  But even they can't hide the actual news about China and have to publish the truth about that country.  Thanks for noticing it came from CNN.  It makes my point even more powerful.  China cannot be trusted on anything they say about the virus., its origins, how they're handling it, or any nefarious intents. 

JoeKitchen

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #649 on: April 13, 2020, 04:39:37 pm »

Fox News, eh? That beacon of accuracy and truth.

But a more accurate headline for the story would be "Nincompoop pastor ignored state orders and advice of medical experts to hold an in-person service."

And people need food. They may want religious services, but do not need them.

Lol Peter this is beyond rich coming from you and some of the stuff you post!

BTW, I know you probably don’t realize this, but the very first freedom in the constitution is freedom of religion. 
« Last Edit: April 13, 2020, 04:48:22 pm by JoeKitchen »
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chez

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #650 on: April 13, 2020, 04:43:05 pm »

Chernobyl was a power plant making electricity for peaceful use.  The Wuhan facility was making bat virus.  Why?  Did they plan on weaponizing it some day?  Sure, it may have escaped by accident.  But what was the facility's purpose?  Maybe that's what they're hiding.  After their lies, can we really trust them?  This is a country that starved 30 million of it's own people 40 years for political purposes.  Do you really think they care about another 2500?

How the hell can you scold another country about weaponizing when you live in a country that spends trillions more on its weapons cash and research than on its own people that so many go without proper healthcare. Shame on you.
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Craig Lamson

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #651 on: April 13, 2020, 04:53:10 pm »

How the hell can you scold another country about weaponizing when you live in a country that spends trillions more on its weapons cash and research than on its own people that so many go without proper healthcare. Shame on you.

In 2019, the US Federal government budget for Medicare, Medicade, CHIPS, and ACA subsidies totaled 1.1 Trillon or 25% of the budget.

In 2019 the US Federal budget for defence was 697 billion or 16% of the budget.


https://www.cbpp.org/research/federal-budget/policy-basics-where-do-our-federal-tax-dollars-g
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James Clark

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #652 on: April 13, 2020, 04:58:39 pm »

In 2019, the US Federal government budget for Medicare, Medicade, CHIPS, and ACA subsidies totaled 1.1 Trillon or 25% of the budget.

In 2019 the US Federal budget for defence was 697 billion or 16% of the budget.


https://www.cbpp.org/research/federal-budget/policy-basics-where-do-our-federal-tax-dollars-g

Which part of the budget saved more lives in 2019?  ;)
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Alan Klein

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #653 on: April 13, 2020, 05:02:03 pm »

Governors want to re-open the economy just like Republican Trump wants. New York Democrat Governor Cuomo of the worst hit state wants regional opening in a plan very similar to Trump's.  He leading a group of a number of states on the east coast.  A similar plan is in the works on the west coast with governors of those states.  All this malarkey about Trump wanting to take us down the wrong path apparently is being supported by the governors. Even Democrat governors are not going to destroy their states to make political points against Trump.  They're abandoning CNN and MSNBC and all the naysayers including many of those posting here.They understand they have to do the right thing for their residents.  And a failing economy is not the right thing.  Of course, if it fails, each side, the president and the governors, will blame the other.  If it succeeds, each side will claim it was their decision that saved the day.  Everyone's rolling the dice. Keep your fingers crossed.   


Coronavirus Live Updates: Governors on Both Coasts Announce Efforts to Plan for Reopening
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/13/us/coronavirus-updates.html


Cuomo stresses regional restart in talks with other states
https://www.politico.com/states/new-york/albany/story/2020/04/13/cuomo-stresses-regional-restart-in-talks-with-other-states-1275202

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #654 on: April 13, 2020, 05:14:53 pm »

... Shame on you.

Hahaha... when everything else fails, resort to moral shaming.

Alan Klein

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #655 on: April 13, 2020, 05:15:20 pm »

Which part of the budget saved more lives in 2019?  ;)
The American defense establishment and security arrangements with our friends and allies have averted wars that may have started.  That was the whole point of  NATO and our being in Europe with our forces and elsewhere as well. We'll thankfully never know how many millions of people were saved. 

In any case, every country's defense spending is a diversion of money that could be spent for social purposes ot left in the hands of the original owners, the taxpayers.  Obviously, a tank serves no civilian purpose.  But we have to defend ourselves.  I do agree that if we have a failing economy, a lot of that spending will be cancelled as the public demands that the government leave them with less taxes. 

John Camp

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #656 on: April 13, 2020, 05:46:12 pm »

Governors want to re-open the economy just like Republican Trump wants. New York Democrat Governor Cuomo of the worst hit state wants regional opening in a plan very similar to Trump's.  He leading a group of a number of states on the east coast.  A similar plan is in the works on the west coast with governors of those states.  All this malarkey about Trump wanting to take us down the wrong path apparently is being supported by the governors. Even Democrat governors are not going to destroy their states to make political points against Trump.  They're abandoning CNN and MSNBC and all the naysayers including many of those posting here.They understand they have to do the right thing for their residents.  And a failing economy is not the right thing.  Of course, if it fails, each side, the president and the governors, will blame the other.  If it succeeds, each side will claim it was their decision that saved the day.  Everyone's rolling the dice. Keep your fingers crossed.   


Coronavirus Live Updates: Governors on Both Coasts Announce Efforts to Plan for Reopening
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/13/us/coronavirus-updates.html


Cuomo stresses regional restart in talks with other states
https://www.politico.com/states/new-york/albany/story/2020/04/13/cuomo-stresses-regional-restart-in-talks-with-other-states-1275202

Before you start the party, read the news releases. They are going to set up committees to have conferences to plan when they might reopen. That sounds like June or July to me, if they're the kinds of committees I'm familiar with.
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chez

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #657 on: April 13, 2020, 05:49:22 pm »

Hahaha... when everything else fails, resort to moral shaming.

Yes...some of us do have morals. Others...not so much. Always worried about the big buck...tops everything.
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chez

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #658 on: April 13, 2020, 05:50:52 pm »

The American defense establishment and security arrangements with our friends and allies have averted wars that may have started.  That was the whole point of  NATO and our being in Europe with our forces and elsewhere as well. We'll thankfully never know how many millions of people were saved. 

In any case, every country's defense spending is a diversion of money that could be spent for social purposes ot left in the hands of the original owners, the taxpayers.  Obviously, a tank serves no civilian purpose.  But we have to defend ourselves.  I do agree that if we have a failing economy, a lot of that spending will be cancelled as the public demands that the government leave them with less taxes.

And how many wars did they outright start or back? Do you really feel safer today then yesterday?
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Craig Lamson

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #659 on: April 13, 2020, 05:57:48 pm »

Which part of the budget saved more lives in 2019?  ;)

Good question.  How will you ever know?
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