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Author Topic: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political  (Read 508912 times)

armand

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #620 on: April 13, 2020, 11:19:44 am »

I get it that part of your schtick is to say things that you think might make leftie liberals apoplectic, but I thought it was frowned upon on these pages to accuse people of wanting others dead. Not long ago, someone else caught a lot of flack for suggesting that.

It's bad only if the others are doing it. Some are more equal than others.

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #621 on: April 13, 2020, 11:42:38 am »

I get it that part of your schtick is to say things that you think might make leftie liberals apoplectic, but I thought it was frowned upon on these pages to accuse people of wanting others dead. Not long ago, someone else caught a lot of flack for suggesting that.

At least I didn't say that some forum members have blood on their hands.

On the other hand (hopefully without blood), you just have to read the leftie media to see how obsessed they are with death and infected numbers, peddling the doom and gloom, focusing almost exclusively on the worst-case scenarios and bad news.

P.S. Funny how none of you so offended with my sentence bothered to discuss the graph

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #622 on: April 13, 2020, 11:45:52 am »

It's bad only if the others are doing it. Some are more equal than others.

You are still posting here? I thought medical workers are overwhelmed by the gazillion cases?

JoeKitchen

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #623 on: April 13, 2020, 12:08:59 pm »

Kentucky churchgoers met with nails on road, police record license plates for Easter Sunday service

To be honest, I dont think in person services at a place of worship should be held at this time, however I honestly can not see anything wrong with a drive in, especially when no one is planning on getting of their cars.  I feel the same way about golf.   

Going to a grocery is arguably of more danger and not illegal, so it is this type of over reach that I think will end political careers. 

As I said a few pages ago, we are giving up our freedoms and to assume they will just be given back to us without a fight is naive. 
« Last Edit: April 13, 2020, 12:20:47 pm by JoeKitchen »
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chez

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #624 on: April 13, 2020, 12:19:15 pm »

You are still posting here? I thought medical workers are overwhelmed by the gazillion cases?

Show a bit of respect here. You'd be singing a different tune if you had a tube stuck down your throat and your hands tied down.

There is a time to be stupid...now is not one of them.
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JoeKitchen

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #625 on: April 13, 2020, 12:19:38 pm »

I think at the end of this, people are going to respond more to Democratic Governors going too far in taking rights away then with what Trump did, or did not do.  Another one. 

Michigan Gov. Whitmer facing backlash for going to 'radical extremes' with stay-at-home order

I know it is Fox News and they have a bias of their own to push, but this could easily backlash in either direction.  Many on here will insist Trump will be negatively viewed after this, but it could very well be the case Democrats are or are in addition to Trump. 

Case in point, a couple of anti-Trump Dems I know personally, whom Trump could never win their vote, expressed to me that they cant pay attention to the news anymore because they feel it is too biased against Trump, and unfairly so.  One told me that she cant watch the pressers not because of Trump but specifically because of the absolute ridiculous questions some reporters ask that illicit no practical information.  On top of that, she told me Biden yelling criticisms from the sidelines does nothing to make her feel he is up to the job, and actually decreases her view of him.

I think both sides are threading a needle here, and they can go just awry for either. 
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chez

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #626 on: April 13, 2020, 12:25:59 pm »

I think at the end of this, people are going to respond more to Democratic Governors going too far in taking rights away then with what Trump did, or did not do.  Another one. 

Michigan Gov. Whitmer facing backlash for going to 'radical extremes' with stay-at-home order

I know it is Fox News and they have a bias of their own to push, but this could easily backlash in either direction.  Many on here will insist Trump will be negatively viewed after this, but it could very well be the case Democrats are or are in addition to Trump. 

Case in point, a couple of anti-Trump Dems I know personally, whom Trump could never win their vote, expressed to me that they cant pay attention to the news anymore because they feel it is too biased against Trump, and unfairly so.  One told me that she cant watch the pressers not because of Trump but specifically because of the absolute ridiculous questions some reporters ask that illicit no practical information.  On top of that, she told me Biden yelling criticisms from the sidelines does nothing to make her feel he is up to the job, and actually decreases her view of him.

I think both sides are threading a needle here, and they can go just awry for either.

Personally when lives are at stake I'd much err on the cautious side than risk lives. How hard done by are these people...really?
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #627 on: April 13, 2020, 12:28:07 pm »

I think at the end of this, people are going to respond more to Democratic Governors going too far ...

They are just happy they get to fulfil their wet dream of omnipotent government. Testing the water, how far they can go in controlling the population.   

JoeKitchen

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #628 on: April 13, 2020, 12:35:14 pm »

Personally when lives are at stake I'd much err on the cautious side than risk lives. How hard done by are these people...really?

It's not going to be viewed like this afterwards though.  Not to mention economic destruction, which is what measures like this will bring, can kill people just as much. 

It's a delicate balance on both sides.  I don't think some governors will survive this. 


PS, plus some people will just cares less to pay attention.  My state as implemented a requirement to wear a mask if you go outside.  My wife and I have yet to do so, along with about 40% of everyone else.  I went on a 20 mile bike ride yesterday and the trail was packed with other cyclists, joggers, and hikers.  Maybe 10% were wearing a mask.  When it comes down to it, you just can't enforce these things if enough people decide to scoff at them. 
« Last Edit: April 13, 2020, 12:59:58 pm by JoeKitchen »
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #629 on: April 13, 2020, 01:21:17 pm »

It's not going to be viewed like this afterwards though.  Not to mention economic destruction, which is what measures like this will bring, can kill people just as much. 

It's a delicate balance on both sides.  I don't think some governors will survive this. 


PS, plus some people will just cares less to pay attention.  My state as implemented a requirement to wear a mask if you go outside.  My wife and I have yet to do so, along with about 40% of everyone else.  I went on a 20 mile bike ride yesterday and the trail was packed with other cyclists, joggers, and hikers.  Maybe 10% were wearing a mask.  When it comes down to it, you just can't enforce these things if enough people decide to scoff at them.

In my country, groups of more than 3 people who do not observe physical distancing risk being fined € 400 (approx. US$ 436) each.
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faberryman

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #630 on: April 13, 2020, 01:26:52 pm »

Here is a perfect example of how seriously bad the news media is today.  A story from today:
https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/12/politics/anthony-fauci-pushback-coronavirus-measures-cnntv/index.html
Honestly, I don't know why you read stories appearing in the Fake News. Do you do it just to work yourself up, and then go on the internet and stamp your foot and shake your fist? It sure seems like it would be better for your physical and mental well being just to stick with your True News sources, whatever they may happen too be.
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JoeKitchen

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #631 on: April 13, 2020, 01:33:24 pm »

In my country, groups of more than 3 people who do not observe physical distancing risk being fined € 400 (approx. US$ 436) each.

SEPTA, our local public transportation company, put into a policy that you must wear a mask when traveling with them as well.  Then they quickly retracted that after it was caught on video of a black rider being carried off a bus by a few police officers.  To be quite honest, if the person was white, I don't SEPTA would have reacted.  However, with the person being black, there was a flirt with making this out to be a racial issue, so SEPTA capitulated and reversed the mandate. 

Of course you could say that if they they enforced this equally (they did) then it could never be considered a racist policy, and I would quickly tell you it's obvious you don't understand USA politics. 

So, things are obviously different over here politically. 

I think it would be rather hard to implement a fine like this without it quickly becoming looked at as racially insensitive, and then it would all fall apart.  Not to mention as soon as these are challenged and someone decides to spend the money to take it to the Supreme Court, I feel it would be voted down and then open up many States and Municipalities to law suits.  YMMV in your country, but this is how it would play out here. 
« Last Edit: April 13, 2020, 01:42:06 pm by JoeKitchen »
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John Camp

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #632 on: April 13, 2020, 02:00:56 pm »

Right now the Johns Hopkins website says that something more than a half million Americans are confirmed to have Covid-19 infections. That is about one-third of one percent of Americans, but still a lot of people. How many have actually had infections without symptoms, or with mild symptoms that they didn't bother to report to a hospital (I have two neighbors like that,) nobody knows.

Here's where I get political. I think the media mostly comes out of New York and to a lesser extent, LA, where the virus is either peaking or where strict controls have kept the infections on a manageable plateau. Their heavy "coastal" coverage gives the impression that we're coming out of this -- but we're not. Remember that this whole episode started with a few dozen confirmed infections in February and exploded to a half-million now. But because of economic pressures, and because Trump is dumber than a barrel of hair, he is not only going to open the economy, he's going to claim the right to open it nationwide [edit: actually, I see he's actually done this], over-running the governors who were the ones who closed it. So he's gong to open the economy, and now we'll be starting with tens of thousands of infections, instead of the few we started with in February. Once we start opening the economy, that decision will be hard to reverse and it will go on for at least a month or maybe two, when the infection rate will become overwhelming and deaths will skyrocket. At that point, Trump will have to either close the economy down tight again, and right up to the election, or he'll have to leave it open and accept the deaths, which will continue to rise right up to the election. He could avoid much of this by keeping the economy closed down until July or August, but he won't; or, he could "allow" the governors to reopen on their own initiative, so if things go wrong, he could blame them. But that's not what's he's going to do. He's going to want to get all the credit for reopening, and what he's going to get is all the blame.

I agree with everyone who thinks Joe Biden is a weak candidate and lacks dynamism, but I think Trump is going to have a disaster on his hands that he made himself, and will have killed perhaps a hundred thousand people who didn't have to die. One possible big change in all of this is if the Oxford vaccine truly turns out to work, and if people can start getting vaccinated in October. That might brighten things a bit, but I doubt it will save Trump.
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JoeKitchen

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #633 on: April 13, 2020, 02:06:13 pm »

Right now the Johns Hopkins website says that something more than a half million Americans are confirmed to have Covid-19 infections. That is about one-third of one percent of Americans, but still a lot of people. How many have actually had infections without symptoms, or with mild symptoms that they didn't bother to report to a hospital (I have two neighbors like that,) nobody knows.

Here's where I get political. I think the media mostly comes out of New York and to a lesser extent, LA, where the virus is either peaking or where strict controls have kept the infections on a manageable plateau. Their heavy "coastal" coverage gives the impression that we're coming out of this -- but we're not. Remember that this whole episode started with a few dozen confirmed infections in February and exploded to a half-million now. But because of economic pressures, and because Trump is dumber than a barrel of hair, he is not only going to open the economy, he's going to claim the right to open it nationwide [edit: actually, I see he's actually done this], over-running the governors who were the ones who closed it. So he's gong to open the economy, and now we'll be starting with tens of thousands of infections, instead of the few we started with in February. Once we start opening the economy, that decision will be hard to reverse and it will go on for at least a month or maybe two, when the infection rate will become overwhelming and deaths will skyrocket. At that point, Trump will have to either close the economy down tight again, and right up to the election, or he'll have to leave it open and accept the deaths, which will continue to rise right up to the election. He could avoid much of this by keeping the economy closed down until July or August, but he won't; or, he could "allow" the governors to reopen on their own initiative, so if things go wrong, he could blame them. But that's not what's he's going to do. He's going to want to get all the credit for reopening, and what he's going to get is all the blame.

I agree with everyone who thinks Joe Biden is a weak candidate and lacks dynamism, but I think Trump is going to have a disaster on his hands that he made himself, and will have killed perhaps a hundred thousand people who didn't have to die. One possible big change in all of this is if the Oxford vaccine truly turns out to work, and if people can start getting vaccinated in October. That might brighten things a bit, but I doubt it will save Trump.

No offense, but are you crazy; keeping the economy shut until August? 

Sorry, but you are showing an utter lack of any relatability to the majority of Americans.  You’re retired, and from the sounds of it were successful, so staying locked up works for you.  For most it simply doesn’t.

It’s not an existential threat to you, but for many it is.  Doing so would have a greater negative effect politically then not. 

Plus, I think it should be noted, again, that Trump can not legally shut down anything, nor has he.  Only governors have the authority, and only they can truly release it too.  I think it will more likely be the case that some governors will drag out reopening their economies and do more damage then what they should and get held accountable for it. 
« Last Edit: April 13, 2020, 02:42:27 pm by JoeKitchen »
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Craig Lamson

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #634 on: April 13, 2020, 02:11:45 pm »

Honestly, I don't know why you read stories appearing in the Fake News. Do you do it just to work yourself up, and then go on the internet and stamp your foot and shake your fist? It sure seems like it would be better for your physical and mental well being just to stick with your True News sources, whatever they may happen too be.

Yea, thats a great way to stay informed.  Gotta read it all if and then distill it if you want have any semblance of the truth.
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armand

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #635 on: April 13, 2020, 02:20:31 pm »

You are still posting here? I thought medical workers are overwhelmed by the gazillion cases?

You fail to understand that what I do is none of your business. That was an asshole comment and the problem is many of you react like this, when you get called on you start going on personal attacks hoping to compensate for your lack of actual argument. Asimov had a saying for this kind or behavior.

elliot_n

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #636 on: April 13, 2020, 03:01:17 pm »

But because of economic pressures, and because Trump is dumber than a barrel of hair, he is not only going to open the economy, he's going to claim the right to open it nationwide [edit: actually, I see he's actually done this], over-running the governors who were the ones who closed it.

As a British observer, this has puzzled me.

The Trump supporters on this forum have argued strongly that the US president has no authority to lockdown America — that a lockdown is something that can only be executed by state governors.

And yet Trump is now making a big deal about how the opening up of America will be the biggest decision of his life.

If he can't lock down, how can he open up?


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JoeKitchen

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #637 on: April 13, 2020, 03:09:01 pm »

As a British observer, this has puzzled me.

The Trump supporters on this forum have argued strongly that the US president has no authority to lockdown America — that a lockdown is something that can only be executed by state governors.

And yet Trump is now making a big deal about how the opening up of America will be the biggest decision of his life.

If he can't lock down, how can he open up?

He cant, he can only make a recommendation and the governor then need to decided if they should do so. 

This is why I think it will ultimately fall on the shoulders' of the governors, not Trump. 

The models keep on getting revised lower and lower, so I dont think this, as we go into summer, is as bad as some still are making it out.  I think some states will open and do well, and others will double down and do horribly economically.  I think then these latter governors will be held accountable more so then Trump. 
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elliot_n

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #638 on: April 13, 2020, 03:12:16 pm »

Ah, I see Trump tweeted on the matter a few hours ago:

For the purpose of creating conflict and confusion, some in the Fake News Media are saying that it is the Governors decision to open up the states, not that of the President of the United States & the Federal Government. Let it be fully understood that this is incorrect. It is the decision of the President, and for many good reasons.

Hmm, confusing to say the least.
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armand

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #639 on: April 13, 2020, 03:20:21 pm »

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