PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political

[JoeKitchen]

But Rob, we have Google.

And Web MD.  Remember, no matter what your symptoms, you're probably dying. 

[Robert Roaldi]

David Frum of The Atlantic has written a long piece about the unfolding of the Covid-19 pandemic in the USA and Trump's litany of failures, https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/04/americans-are-paying-the-price-for-trumps-failures/609532/.

[Craig Lamson]

David Frum of The Atlantic has written a long piece about the unfolding of the Covid-19 pandemic in the USA and Trump's litany of failures, https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/04/americans-are-paying-the-price-for-trumps-failures/609532/.

As yes, good old David Frum.  The orange man bad narrative continues.  Gotta keep those hit pieces coming.  Slow Joe can’t win with them.

What a pathetic mess of an article. 

[chez]

As yes, good old David Frum.  The orange man bad narrative continues.  Gotta keep those hit pieces coming.  Slow Joe can’t win with them.

What a pathetic mess of an article.

Please elaborate on what is false in the piece.

[William Walker]

As yes, good old David Frum.  The orange man bad narrative continues.  Gotta keep those hit pieces coming. Slow Joe can’t win with them.

What a pathetic mess of an article.

Craig, your "Do you understand trolling?" comment unfortunately renders anything you say as irrelevant as far as I am concerned.

[Craig Lamson]

Please elaborate on what is false in the piece.

Do you have a week?  First have you actually read it?

But we can start with this as it pretty much sums up this authors take on things ( and it is David Frum so this is his entire stance since Trump was elected)

"It didn’t have to be this way. If somebody else had been president of the United States in December 2019—Hillary Clinton, Jeb Bush, Mike Pence, really almost anybody else—the United States would still have been afflicted by the coronavirus. But it would have been better prepared, and better able to respond."

If the author makes a claim like this, that is IMPOSSIBLE to substatiate, can we trust his other claims? 

But you are correct perhaps it might be an interesting process to disect this hit piece, claim by claim and in the process expose the false logic that others want to use to disparage this President and his actions.  I'll give it some thought and see if I want to commit that kind of time and effort.

[Craig Lamson]

Craig, your "Do you understand trolling?" comment unfortunately renders anything you say as irrelevant as far as I am concerned.

More power to you, I started dimissing yours when you screwed up the Emergency  thing and failed to admit your error.

[chez]

Do you have a week?  First have you actually read it?

But we can start with this as it pretty much sums up this authors take on things ( and it is David Frum so this is his entire stance since Trump was elected)

"It didn’t have to be this way. If somebody else had been president of the United States in December 2019—Hillary Clinton, Jeb Bush, Mike Pence, really almost anybody else—the United States would still have been afflicted by the coronavirus. But it would have been better prepared, and better able to respond."

If the author makes a claim like this, that is IMPOSSIBLE to substatiate, can we trust his other claims? 

But you are correct perhaps it might be an interesting process to disect this hit piece, claim by claim and in the process expose the false logic that others want to use to disparage this President and his actions.  I'll give it some thought and see if I want to commit that kind of time and effort.

So you are claiming Trump was well prepared and acted expediently tackling the virus? I thought there was a huge scramble for testing for the longest time. I've seen enough doctors and nurses pleading for more test. Is this what you call prepared and quick action?

[JoeKitchen]

So you are claiming Trump was well prepared and acted expediently tackling the virus? I thought there was a huge scramble for testing for the longest time. I've seen enough doctors and nurses pleading for more test. Is this what you call prepared and quick action?

Chez, he is making the point that the idea that anyone else would have been more prepared is bonk, not to mention impossible to prove.  So we should not take it with credibility. 

[kers]

Chez, he is making the point that the idea that anyone else would have been more prepared is bonk, not to mention impossible to prove.  So we should not take it with credibility.

Well the crisis is not over yet and with 17 + million people losing their job, many people dying of a virusspread, Trump now has a serious crisis to handle and can show what he is made of.
We have seen former presidents dealing with a crisis now this is the first real test for Trump.
Up until now his actions and words are far from logical and sensible.

[chez]

Chez, he is making the point that the idea that anyone else would have been more prepared is bonk, not to mention impossible to prove.  So we should not take it with credibility.

Obviously others have been better prepared and handled the crisis much better based on results from different countries. Surely with the money and "power" of the US...they should be the leader in their response...not a nation scrambling.

I have no idea if anyone else in US politics could have done a better job...the only thing we know the existing people in charge have done an awful job.

[Craig Lamson]

So you are claiming Trump was well prepared and acted expediently tackling the virus? I thought there was a huge scramble for testing for the longest time. I've seen enough doctors and nurses pleading for more test. Is this what you call prepared and quick action?

I think he was as prepared as anyone else would have been.  Yes testing was a mess.  The CDC made a mess of that.  Is that Trumps fault?  Indirectly yes because he is the President, but he does not run the CDC. This likely would have been the same situation regardless of who was President. 

Did we have a huge problem making a new test?  Of course we did.  Again by implication Trump is President so he is at fault.  Bu the reality is it was the layers of  government and regulations that caused the problem.  Trump tried and suceeded in peeling back some of that mess so we could get new testing devices up and running. 


We can play this over and over.  Trump started too late?,  but would anyone else actually done anything different?  To suggest that would be true is a fools errand.  Would an eariler guidance to shut everyting down when there wer only a few cases have worked?  Again who knows, but we can use the evidecne we have that when things did start to heat up and the suggestion was made, many States made other decisions.  Is that Trumps fault or is it yet anohte talking point with no grounding in reality.

That's the game people have decided to play because "orange man bad" and he must be stopped at all costs.  Nothing else has worked over the last three years.

[Craig Lamson]

Well the crisis is not over yet and with 17 + million people losing their job, many people dying of a virusspread, Trump now has a serious crisis to handle and can show what he is made of.
We have seen former presidents dealing with a crisis now this is the first real test for Trump.
Up until now his actions and words are far from logical and sensible.

But were they grounded in the reality of the ENTIRE SITUATION? Its easy to sit back on the sidelines and complain, yet another the be in the seat that must decide.

added on edit.

Trump has to rely on his advisor for much of his information.  Fauci is seen my the public as very credible.  Fauce had this to say in late Jan,  we might assume he told the same to Trump.


This is from a Jan. 21, 2020 interview with Newsmax:

Host: "Bottom line, we don't have to worry about this one, right?"

Fauci: "Well, you know, obviously, you need to take it seriously and do the kinds of things that the CDC and the Department of Homeland Security are doing. But this is not a major threat (emphasis added) for the people of the United States, and this is not something that the citizens of the United States right now should be worried about."

[JoeKitchen]

Well the crisis is not over yet and with 17 + million people losing their job, many people dying of a virusspread, Trump now has a serious crisis to handle and can show what he is made of.
We have seen former presidents dealing with a crisis now this is the first real test for Trump.
Up until now his actions and words are far from logical and sensible.

His actions have been pretty sensible, like shutting down travel even after every one criticized him on it. 

Now his words, those are hit or miss kind of like a baseball player; even the best still miss more then half the time.  So ...

But let me tell you something, now that I know Joe Biden loves fig newtons and PBJs, I just may have to reconsider him.  Perhaps he can run for president of his local retirement community.   Seriously, in the trailer for his new podcast, that is the clip they decided to run for the advertising of it during an International pandemic.  It does not sound like he has anything great to add either. 

[JoeKitchen]

But were they grounded in the reality of the ENTIRE SITUATION? Its easy to sit back on the sidelines and complain, yet another the be in the seat that must decide.

Karl Rove was criticizing Biden by saying exactly the same thing.  Biden is largely sitting on the sidelines reacting and shouting out instead of acting like commander and chief.  Even with running his own party, which he is the leader of right now, Joe Biden is sitting back and waiting for Pelosi and the squad to come up with ideas he then say "great" on.  Rove said he should be planning and controlling on where to go after this, but he is not. 

In contrast, both Trump and Obama took charge after securing the nomination and controlled the narrative and direction of their party.  Biden just does not look presidential with what he is doing. 

[Craig Lamson]

His actions have been pretty sensible, like shutting down travel even after every one criticized him on it. 

Now his words, those are hit or miss kind of like a baseball player; even the best still miss more then half the time.  So ...

But let me tell you something, now that I know Joe Biden loves fig newtons and PBJs, I just may have to reconsider him.  Perhaps he can run for president of his local retirement community.   Seriously, in the trailer for his new podcast, that is the clip they decided to run for the advertising of it during an International pandemic.  It does not sound like he has anything great to add either.

Trump has a major fault, he never knows when to stop talking.  He often talks well beyond the sale.  I think he does thais because he was not a politician, and he's still not one in the true sense of the word.  As such he's not as slick and smooth like others who can pull the wool over your eyes without you ever feeling it.

[chez]

Trump has a major fault, he never knows when to stop talking.  He often talks well beyond the sale.  I think he does thais because he was not a politician, and he's still not one in the true sense of the word.  As such he's not as slick and smooth like others who can pull the wool over your eyes without you ever feeling it.

Yes...and it's good to have people who step up right after his talk and correct everything that spewed out of Trumps mouth like opening things up by April. It's one thing to keep talking about things he knows...but it's totally different to talk about things you just have no idea about.

[kers]

+1
As a president of a ( big) nation he is a role model.
That incudes what he says...
So now we have adopters that take his words for truth and other kind of adopters that seem to know what he actually meant.

[Rob C]

But Rob, we have Google.

Indeed; that's one of the prime reasons that online conversations become pointless and fail: unlike with a face-to-face, people have time and look up whatever they don't know and then post that as response. Even so, it often becomes clear that people are simply winging it and have no real idea what they are talking about. It comes as an acute disappointment and stifles further engagement with them.

[Craig Lamson]

Yes...and it's good to have people who step up right after his talk and correct everything that spewed out of Trumps mouth like opening things up by April. It's one thing to keep talking about things he knows...but it's totally different to talk about things you just have no idea about.

Sheesh, you didn't even have a clue about what he said concerning April, and then you go off and spew about talking about things you have no idea about.