PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political

[BernardLanguillier]

They are taking my dear old friend Bob off of the ventilator in about an hour and he is not expected to start breathing on his own.
It all seems so abstract until it's killing your friends.

I am so sorry for your loss Matt.

Regards,
Bernard

[Craig Lamson]

In other news, "press secretary" Stephanie Grisham has been fired reassigned, and a few more Inspectors General have been sacked and replaced with lackeys so as to avoid bipartisan Congressional oversight of the COVID-19 bailout program, or, well, anything else.   While I maintain that the comparison of the President of the United States to a private corporate CEO is horribly flawed, he continues to demonstrate his incompetence at "CEOing" in the selection and retention of "the best people," and continues to value personal loyalty over competence or loyalty to the United States.  L'etat is NOT the president, for f's sake.

Presidents privilege.  Some of these folks are holdover.  Others not.  On the subject of the "best people" given the want of some on the left to desire that anyone who works for the President be tarred and feathered for doing so and if they had their way never work again, can you blame some for staying away.  Have you ever hear of that happening to an Obama employee? 

I applaud him for screwing the House.

[James Clark]

Presidents privilege.  Some of these folks are holdover.  Others not.  On the subject of the "best people" given the want of some on the left to desire that anyone who works for the President be tarred and feathered for doing so and if they had their way never work again, can you blame some for staying away.  Have you ever hear of that happening to an Obama employee? 

I applaud him for screwing the House.

"Presidents privilege" to undermine the structures that keep each branch of the government in check and responsible to the others?  Is it a total lack of understanding of the foundations of our country, or is is that it's more important to make Democrats mad than it is to preserve those foundations? 

In any case, it's sad that some people have ceded their moral center to scum like Donald Trump, or have come to believe that he reflects the ideals that our foundations rest on.  As Peter noted, it's not that our friends on the right are universal morally bankrupt, it that Donald Trump is, and so many of you are unable or unwilling to make the distinction.

[BernardLanguillier]

Reasonable discussion ended in this forum on this subject long ago, IMO, James and reached a new low when members accused other members of being accomplices to Covide 19 deaths in America.  Good faith no longer exists with some members.  Please note I'm not leveling this at you pesonally. Quite frankly I believe you and I have had some substantial and meaningful exchanges. Others, not so much.

I have personally not seen any difference in the content of your posts before and after that exchange.

Why blame on me the crystal clear and fully consistent expression of your views?

Engaging in reasonable discussions? Is that what you were doing? When your whole argument is built on top of only one thought which is « Trump is right whatever he does »?

That’s not reasonable by any stretch of the imagination. That’s fanaticism.

The way forward? Look at facts and use common sense and logic.

Regards,
Bernard

[Craig Lamson]

Is it a total lack of understanding of the foundations of our country, or is is that it's more important to make Democrats mad than it is to preserve those foundations? 

In any case, its sad that some people have ceded their moral center to scum like Donald Trump, or have come to believe that he reflects the ideals that our foundations rest on.  As Peter noted, it's not that our friends on the right are universal morally bankrupt, it that Donald Trump is, and so many of you are unable or unwilling to make the distinction.

Thats clearly your opinion, and you are welcome to it. Others see it differently and I am one of them.  I'll take Trump anyday over anyone the Dems have to offer and I say that being someone who has voted for Dem Presidental candidates before myself.  You want to say we have ceded the moral center.  Have you looked at the morality of the Democratic Party lately.  That is part is why you have Donald Trump.  arts and all he is head and shoulder above what the Dems are pushing. And again thats why you have Donald Trump.  Many and I'm included are willing to accept the warts for what the rest of the package brings.

As for the Democrats, payback is a bitch.  And what fondations are you looking at preserving? Ones like trying anything you can to take out a President you don't like and to try an overturn a election you didn't win?  Doing everything possible you make the Presidents life as miserable as possible and trying to destroy his every move and action? 

I'll end where you let off.  Its not that so many of those on the Left are universally morally bankrupt, its that the morailty of the Democratic party is, and so many of you are unwilling or unable to make the distinction.   

[Craig Lamson]

I have personally not seen any difference in the content of your posts before and after that exchange.

Why blame on me the crystal clear and fully consistent expression of your views?

Engaging in reasonable discussions? Is that what you were doing? When your whole argument is built on top of only one thought which is « Trump is right whatever he does »?

That’s not reasonable by any stretch of the imagination. That’s fanaticism.

The way forward? Look at facts and use common sense and logic.

Regards,
Bernard

Bye Bye Bernard. There is no way forward with you.  And thats all your doing.

[Craig Lamson]

Its all Trumps fault...

New York City auctioned off extra ventilators due to cost of maintenance: report

New York City auctioned off hundreds of city-owned ventilators at least five years ago under Democratic Mayor Bill de Blasio’s administration, according to an investigation by ProPublica.

The city acquired the ventilators in 2006 under former Mayor Michael Bloomberg’s administration, when a new strain of the flu was circulating in Asia, according to a report from the New York City Department of Health and Mental Hygiene obtained by the news outlet.

The city began acquiring ventilators and “stockpiling a supply of face masks,” which were later auctioned off because the machines broke down and the health department "couldn't afford to maintain them," according to ProPublica.

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/491651-new-york-city-auctioned-off-extra-ventilators-due-to-cost-of-maintenance

[armand]

I have personally not seen any difference in the content of your posts before and after that exchange.

Why blame on me the crystal clear and fully consistent expression of your views?

Engaging in reasonable discussions? Is that what you were doing? When your whole argument is built on top of only one thought which is « Trump is right whatever he does »?

That’s not reasonable by any stretch of the imagination. That’s fanaticism.

The way forward? Look at facts and use common sense and logic.

Regards,
Bernard

Here is a way forward

[JoeKitchen]

It’s great to know some on here have their echo chambers.   

[James Clark]

Thats clearly your opinion, and you are welcome to it. Others see it differently and I am one of them.  I'll take Trump anyday over anyone the Dems have to offer and I say that being someone who has voted for Dem Presidental candidates before myself.  You want to say we have ceded the moral center.  Have you looked at the morality of the Democratic Party lately.  That is part is why you have Donald Trump.  arts and all he is head and shoulder above what the Dems are pushing. And again thats why you have Donald Trump.  Many and I'm included are willing to accept the warts for what the rest of the package brings.

As for the Democrats, payback is a bitch.  And what fondations are you looking at preserving? Ones like trying anything you can to take out a President you don't like and to try an overturn a election you didn't win?  Doing everything possible you make the Presidents life as miserable as possible and trying to destroy his every move and action? 

I'll end where you let off.  Its not that so many of those on the Left are universally morally bankrupt, its that the morailty of the Democratic party is, and so many of you are unwilling or unable to make the distinction.

You're totally missing my point.  I'm not claiming any moral superiority on the part of the Democrats vis a vis Republicans.  I'm claiming moral superiority of any number of people, left and right, over the pile of human excrement that is Donald J Trump. I'm pointing out to you that, through his actions, Donald Trump is actively and deliberately removing accountability from Democrats, Republicans, and independent oversight and ethics watchdogs.   He is purging, largely without regard for party, anyone who would *do their legal and Constitutional duty* to conduct oversight of the executive branch.  Republicans are complicit only in that they keep letting him get away with it because they are afraid of his cultists who themselves place fealty to Trump over their (pathetically thin) understanding of why the American experiment works.

He has argued in open court that he is not subject to investigation (not indictment - investigation) by any authority.

He has blatantly declared that he will not comply with a fully bipartisan oversight of the COVID relief package.

He continues to remove Senate-confirmed individuals and replaced them with "Acting" lapdogs that he places and removes at will, typically when they disagree with him, or perform their function in a manner that prioritizes the interests of the United States or the law above the ever-changing whims of Donald Trump. (Or when they're just hopelessly incompetent, which goes back to his total lack of ability to select "the best" people)

And you're fine with that. 

[James Clark]

Its all Trumps fault...

New York City auctioned off extra ventilators due to cost of maintenance: report

New York City auctioned off hundreds of city-owned ventilators at least five years ago under Democratic Mayor Bill de Blasio’s administration, according to an investigation by ProPublica.

The city acquired the ventilators in 2006 under former Mayor Michael Bloomberg’s administration, when a new strain of the flu was circulating in Asia, according to a report from the New York City Department of Health and Mental Hygiene obtained by the news outlet.

The city began acquiring ventilators and “stockpiling a supply of face masks,” which were later auctioned off because the machines broke down and the health department "couldn't afford to maintain them," according to ProPublica.

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/491651-new-york-city-auctioned-off-extra-ventilators-due-to-cost-of-maintenance

Well, de Blasio is on "my" side, so I guess no matter how obvious, willfully ignorant, or convoluted my excuses are, I'm supposed to say that whatever he does is OK, and defend it right?

No, actually, de Blasio pretty much sucks.

(See how easy that was?)

[Chris Kern]

1. There is no "Writ of Habeas Corpus" to burn.

However, U.S. President Abraham Lincoln, with support from a compliant Congress, suspended the writ of habeas corpus in 1863 during the American civil war.  That action is controversial to this day among legal scholars with a libertarian political orientation.

2. Magna Carta, with which you might be confusing whatever you imagine is a burnable writ, dates from 1215.

Magna Carta is very much alive and well in the United States: it's the foundation for our constitutional doctrine of bottom-up limited government, which reserves many governmental powers that elsewhere reside in central governments to the individual states.

3. If you're thinking of the Bill of Rights 1688, perhaps you should read it.

And, of course, the Bill of Rights of 1688 was the inspiration for the Bill of Rights that was added to the U.S. Constitution as the first ten amendments to that document in 1791, in an attempt to respond to the concerns of George Mason, Thomas Jefferson, and other prominent "states rights" political figures of that era that the Constitution as originally drafted reposed too much authority in the federal government.

Legally, we're still rather British here in the States.

[James Clark]

And, of course, the Bill of Rights of 1688 was the inspiration for the Bill of Rights that was added to the U.S. Constitution as the first ten amendments to that document in 1791, in an attempt to respond to the concerns of George Mason, Thomas Jefferson, and other prominent "states rights" political figures of that era that the Constitution as originally drafted reposed too much authority in the federal government.

The effect of which has been perversion by so-called originalists in claiming that rights that aren't explicitly spelled out as such simply do not exist. 

Oops.

[armand]

It’s great to know some on here have their echo chambers.   

Careful now, you don't want to join the club.

Joke aside, despite the fact we don't agree on the fact that Trump did a bad job with the respond to this pandemic, as long as we maintain a sense of decency without personal attacks to one's intelligence or such, we can keep discussing. I would rather not because it's a rabbit hole and nobody is here to change their opinion, but that's a different discussion.

[Craig Lamson]

You're totally missing my point.  I'm not claiming any moral superiority on the part of the Democrats vis a vis Republicans.  I'm claiming moral superiority of any number of people, left and right, over the pile of human excrement that is Donald J Trump.

And that would be the Democrats since most of those on the right support Trump. In any case what makes hating Trump morally superior?  Get over it, your side lost.  Do better next time, if you can.

I'm pointing out to you that, through his actions, Donald Trump is actively and deliberately removing accountability from Democrats, Republicans, and independent oversight and ethics watchdogs.   He is purging, largely without regard for party, anyone who would *do their legal and Constitutional duty* to conduct oversight of the executive branch.

He is simply changing the faces, not removing the oversight.  Its his legal right and if you guys dont agree, then challenge him. Take him to court.  Or win back the White House.  Elections have consequences.

Republicans are complicit only in that they keep letting him get away with it because they are afraid of his cultists who themselves place fealty to Trump over their (pathetically thin) understanding of why the American government works.

 

There goes that moral superiority again.  It not a good look James. Anyway. I'll posit tha American goverment hasn't been working well for a long time. Which is yet another reason you complaining loudly about the fact that Trump is President.  You are having a Hillary moment here James.  Dang those deplorable. 

He has argued in open court that he is not subject to investigation (not indictment - investigation) by any authority.

He has blatantly declared that he will not comply with a fully bipartisan oversight of the COVID relief package.

Do you blame him James given the events of the last three years of 'investigations and oversight".  You reap what you sow, as he saying goes.

He continues to remove Senate-confirmed individuals and replaced them with "Acting" lapdogs that he places and removes at will, typically when they disagree with him, or perform their function in a manner that prioritizes the interests of the United States or the law above the ever-changing whims of Donald Trump.

Again, all of it is his right as President of the United States.  Thats reality.  If you don't like it change the rules or vote him out of office this fall.   I get it, you hate Trump.  I would not go so far and say I hated Obama but I did not like him or his policies.  Just like you my recourse was to vote.  Bitching won't change a thing.  It might make you feel better but thats it.

And you're fine with that.

Yep, and you're fine with hating him and his supporters.  Kind of makes it a draw.

[Craig Lamson]

Well, de Blasio is on "my" side, so I guess no matter how obvious, willfully ignorant, or convoluted my excuses are, I'm supposed to say that whatever he does is OK, and defend it right?

No, actually, de Blasio pretty much sucks.

(See how easy that was?)

Trump is not always right, but he right far more that you (or the left )want to give him credit for.

[LesPalenik]

Trump is not always right, but he right far more that you (or the left )want to give him credit for.

More accurate description would be that he doesn't lie all the time, sometimes he tells the truth. But how do you know when he is in that mood?

[Chris Kern]

The effect of which has been perversion by so-called originalists in claiming that rights that aren't explicitly spelled out as such simply do not exist. 

Agreed.  Fundamentally, the modern "originalist" doctrine is an attempt to abrogate our common law heritage.

[Craig Lamson]

More accurate description would be that he doesn't lie all the time, sometimes he tells the truth. But how do you know when he is in that mood?

We knew what he was when we elected him.  And please show me a politician who does not lie.  Its a given. Actions, not words.

[LesPalenik]

We knew what he was when we elected him.  And please show me a politician who does not lie.  Its a given. Actions, not words.

That shouldn't be an excuse. And pretending that this is the new normal.