PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political

[Chris Kern]

By law, if you go to the hospital, they have to treat you

What if the infection leads to a heart attack? Would they still treat you for free?

A U.S. federal statute, the Emergency Medical Treatment and Labor Act (1986), requires every hospital with an emergency department that participates in Medicare, the government insurance program for old people―effectively, this means almost every hospital in the country―to screen and provide stabilizing medical treatment for any individual who requests an emergency medical examination or treatment, regardless of the individual's ability to pay.  If the hospital doesn't have the ability to stabilize the patient, it must arrange for a transfer to a hospital that does.

[chez]

No it is not.  Cuomo has said several times that no one has died due to lack of care and that ventilators have been available when needed.

It may be different in other countries, but we have a very  robust health system.

Did you watch that documentary about two hospitals in NY? Did you hear that nurse yelling for help because someone left in the corner has turned blue? Did you hear all those doctors and nurses saying they did not have enough medical equipment, enough staff...people were dying.

So you believe Cuomo when it helps your argument and totally call him a liar at other times.

[Alan Klein]

Some photos and videos of the mass burial site on Hart Island, https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/hart-island-mass-graves-coronavirus-new-york/2020/04/16/a0c413ee-7f5f-11ea-a3ee-13e1ae0a3571_story.html. This seems antiquated, why not cremation?

In case family members come forward later, they can reclaim the body for burial elsewhere.  You can't do that if the person is cremated.

[LesPalenik]

If it is related to C-19, yes.  More then likely insurance rates will spike next year though.

And what about a guy who can't get his knee replaced now because all elective surgeries were cancelled due to C-19 crisis, so he walks to the store, falls, and brakes his hip?
I don't think he would be covered.

[Alan Klein]

Good morning to you too Alan! One big problem there old chap! The chart was not "tainted" and all the other folks (except you and Joe), without the added information, understood it.

William, you were the one who said, quote: "Alan, I confess, I deliberately left out the context of the graph in an attempt to try and understand what you and Joe do with any information you receive from certain folks on this thread - including me."

So you admitted that you were trying to fool people.  Joe and I caught you on your game playing and you now claim you were doing it to test people.  Give me a break.

[Alan Klein]

Alan, I made a mistake looking at the chart and admitted as much. 

The main issue with the chart is that we know the actual number of deaths for the causes sighted over a period of time, which was shown.  But here we only have data as it comes in, so we do not know if that rather step rise in deaths will decline in the same manner, which could even produce less deaths then the flu from the year sited.  Or does it plateau for a bit before coming down. 

It was a bad graph given the unknown future for that reason. 

You're being a nice guy for Bill.  But he admitted he was trying to fool us, a test he called it.  He should have included the graph maker's important and  italicized explanation.  That's game playing, frankly lying.

[JoeKitchen]

And what about a guy who can't get his knee replaced now because all elective surgeries were cancelled due to C-19 crisis, so he walks to the store, falls, and brakes his hip?
I don't think he would be covered.

No, that is not covered nor should be.  It is not related to C-19 and could happen even if this pandemic did not happen.

[Alan Klein]

If it is related to C-19, yes.  More then likely insurance rates will spike next year though. 

Joe, if someone is in a hospital for a heart attack for any reason, the law require the hospital handle his case and take care of him.

Last year, when I had my triple bypass, the patient next to me was a homeless man who lived with his girlfriend on the street.  He was in emergency for something else when they discovered in the emergency room that he had a heart valve problem.  So they move him up to the heart wing and he was operated on for free.  His girlfriend was very nice.  She would take showers in the patient's bathroom and when they left, she took the hospital's pillows.  The point is the guy was taken care of for free as equired by law.

[chez]

William, you were the one who said, quote: "Alan, I confess, I deliberately left out the context of the graph in an attempt to try and understand what you and Joe do with any information you receive from certain folks on this thread - including me."

So you admitted that you were trying to fool people.  Joe and I caught you on your game playing and you now claim you were doing it to test people.  Give me a break.

And everyone else knew what the graph represented without any added information. What does that say about Joe and you?

[Chris Kern]

And what about a guy who can't get his knee replaced now because all elective surgeries were cancelled due to C-19 crisis, so he walks to the store, falls, and brakes his hip?
I don't think he would be covered.

The federal Emergency Medical Treatment and Labor Act requirements apply to anyone who requires emergency treatment for any reason.

[Alan Klein]

Maybe you are right.  I just realized I have been saying for a while is Clinton owned up to the email thing, it would have been over and done with long before the election.  So, I should hold Trump to the same. 

Although she knew what she was doing was illegal when she did it, so ... not hindsight. 

If you were called a traitor for over 2 1/2 years for colluding with the Russians and was impeached for political reasons, you'd be gun shy too. Trump is never given credit for anything he does right.  His "mistakes" are magnified like no president before him. So naturally he's professes his innocence.    It would be natural for any of us.   

[LesPalenik]

The federal Emergency Medical Treatment and Labor Act requirements apply to anyone who requires emergency treatment for any reason.

Getting treated is one thing, but incurring expenses and injuries, because of the C-19 epidemic and how it was (mis)handled, is yet another situation.

[Alan Klein]

And everyone else knew what the graph represented without any added information. What does that say about Joe and you?

That we were observant to notice something was wrong with the chart or they way it was presented.  We're not sheep who believe a chart just because it's a chart.  We think out of the boix and question things.  We're smarter than most. 

[chez]

That we were observant to notice something was wrong with the chart or they way it was presented.  We're not sheep who believe a chart just because it's a chart.  We think out of the boix and question things.  We're smarter than most.

And you couldn't tell what the graph was all about with the various information that was displayed on it? I wouldn't call being smart when you are needed to be grabbed by your nose and fed every piece of information before you get it. Smart is when you look at the data presented and come up with the right answers.

[Alan Klein]

Getting treated is one thing, but incurring expenses and injuries, because of the C-19 epidemic and how it was (mis)handled, is yet another situation.

Are you suggesting people could sue the government for improper medical care?  That's an interesting question.  Does medical malpractice apply in this situation?  Can a hospital be sued?  Can the government be sued for not having appropriate PPE for example?  I think we're going to find out pretty soon when some lawyers decide to file a test lawsuit. Chris, what do you think?

[Alan Klein]

And you couldn't tell what the graph was all about with the various information that was displayed on it? I wouldn't call being smart when you are needed to be grabbed by your nose and fed every piece of information before you get it. Smart is when you look at the data presented and come up with the right answers.

The chart as presented was misleading.  I was pointing that out.

[chez]

The chart as presented was misleading.  I was pointing that out.

For 2, but not the rest.

[JoeKitchen]

For 2, but not the rest.

Hey, jerk, I've explained I glanced at the graph while dealing with my basement flooding and admitted to my mistake.  Please stop lumping me into this. 

[LesPalenik]

Are you suggesting people could sue the government for improper medical care?  That's an interesting question.  Does medical malpractice apply in this situation?  Can a hospital be sued?  Can the government be sued for not having appropriate PPE for example?  I think we're going to find out pretty soon when some lawyers decide to file a test lawsuit. Chris, what do you think?

I don't think that the hospital could be sued, and I didn't even think about such action, but many lives get now affected by how the virus situation was handled. Maybe if it was handled differently, there would be fewer cases and fewer emergencies.

Just this morning, a relative of mine was rushed into hospital with a stroke. The stroke was not caused by C-19, but because of the new virus rules, the hospital doesn't allow any family visits and we are still waiting for the full report. I don't know if they have enough doctors in that particular department.

[faberryman]

Hey, jerk, I've explained I glanced at the graph while dealing with my basement flooding and admitted to my mistake.  Please stop lumping me into this.

I'm sympathetic. I wouldn't want to be lumped in with Alan either. While I may not always agree with you, at least your arguments are rational.