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Author Topic: HP Z3200 "Expired" Carts  (Read 1218 times)

Peter McLennan

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HP Z3200 "Expired" Carts
« on: March 20, 2020, 07:51:13 pm »

About ten days ago, I fired up the Z3200 after a few weeks of not printing.  It reported an "expired" Y cart. 

If the printer thinks the cart is expired, it won't print. I ordered a new Y cart and installed it.

Now, the printer says that the LG cart is expired, too.  Both of them were at about 80% when they "expired".  $150 CDN each.  Plus shipping.  Took ten days to get here.

All 12 of the carts are about the same vintage, all are at or above 80% full and are the first carts the printer has seen after the starter carts.  Since they're all the same age, they will probably all expire soon, too.  So I'm looking at nearly two grand, just to get printing again.  This on a printer that's virtually new.

Someone suggested I order a new cart, salvage its chip and install it on the expired cart.  While that tactic might get me printing again, I will still have to order another set of carts since they're all gonna "expire".

Anybody got any ideas how to get out of this mess?

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deanwork

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Re: HP Z3200 "Expired" Carts
« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2020, 08:01:39 pm »

This totally sounds like a firmware glitch to me. I haven’t experienced it but haven’t loaded any software in awhile. First thing I would do is call HP. And ask for a supervisor if necessary. That’s in no way acceptable. In the States I can get carts from HP website overnight. We’ve always used expired carts and heads.




About ten days ago, I fired up the Z3200 after a few weeks of not printing.  It reported an "expired" Y cart.

If the printer thinks the cart is expired, it won't print. I ordered a new Y cart and installed it.

Now, the printer says that the LG cart is expired, too.  Both of them were at about 80% when they "expired".  $150 CDN each.  Plus shipping.  Took ten days to get here.

All 12 of the carts are about the same vintage, all are at or above 80% full and are the first carts the printer has seen after the starter carts.  Since they're all the same age, they will probably all expire soon, too.  So I'm looking at nearly two grand, just to get printing again.  This on a printer that's virtually new.

Someone suggested I order a new cart, salvage its chip and install it on the expired cart.  While that tactic might get me printing again, I will still have to order another set of carts since they're all gonna "expire".

Anybody got any ideas how to get out of this mess?
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Peter McLennan

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Re: HP Z3200 "Expired" Carts
« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2020, 08:18:02 pm »

Thanks, deanwork.  I'll call HP on Monday.
It did seem a little outta line.  :)
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dgberg

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Re: HP Z3200 "Expired" Carts
« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2020, 08:26:30 pm »

I just had the same thing happen with my z3200.
Not sure of the exact sequence but it gave me the same warning two or three times then it started to print.

Peter McLennan

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Re: HP Z3200 "Expired" Carts
« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2020, 09:33:24 pm »

I just had the same thing happen with my z3200.
Not sure of the exact sequence but it gave me the same warning two or three times then it started to print.

OK, thanks, Dan.  Hopefully all is not lost.  I got a front panel choice, one of which appeared to be "use expired", along with a "no warranty if selected" warning, which I selected to no avail.  Hopefully, HP can help me resolve this.
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Peter McLennan

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Re: HP Z3200 "Expired" Carts
« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2020, 07:35:38 pm »

This printer is driving me crazy.  It's on its very first set of carts after the "starters", so it's virtually new.  It has sat unused for a few weeks, but connected to power.  It has been performing its automatic periodic maintenance during this time.

A few weeks ago, I got a "re-seat Y cart" message and it stopped printing yellow.  On HP's instruction I replaced the yellow print head. Yellow printing was restored.

A few days ago I got a "Yellow Cart Expired" message, so I replaced it, too, even though it's at 80% or so full. But I couldn't get the "Ready" indication on the front panel, so I assumed that I couldn't print at all.

Now, following a call to HP, I found that I could print, even with an "expired" cart message.

Unfortunately, it's stopped printing yellow again.  It's also stopped printing green, with the B-G head showing a shade of blue where green should be.

What the heck is going on?  Any advice gratefully received.

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kers

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Re: HP Z3200 "Expired" Carts
« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2020, 05:06:49 am »

This printer is driving me crazy.  It's on its very first set of carts after the "starters", so it's virtually new.  It has sat unused for a few weeks, but connected to power.  It has been performing its automatic periodic maintenance during this time.

A few weeks ago, I got a "re-seat Y cart" message and it stopped printing yellow.  On HP's instruction I replaced the yellow print head. Yellow printing was restored.

A few days ago I got a "Yellow Cart Expired" message, so I replaced it, too, even though it's at 80% or so full. But I couldn't get the "Ready" indication on the front panel, so I assumed that I couldn't print at all.

Now, following a call to HP, I found that I could print, even with an "expired" cart message.

Unfortunately, it's stopped printing yellow again.  It's also stopped printing green, with the B-G head showing a shade of blue where green should be.

What the heck is going on?  Any advice gratefully received.

About the B/Gr printhead that gives blue instead of green- Sounds like a faulty head.  blue comes into the green chamber-   had that before
If the head is not older than 18 months you can have it replaced.
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Ernst Dinkla

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Re: HP Z3200 "Expired" Carts
« Reply #7 on: March 24, 2020, 05:12:00 am »

This printer is driving me crazy.  It's on its very first set of carts after the "starters", so it's virtually new.  It has sat unused for a few weeks, but connected to power.  It has been performing its automatic periodic maintenance during this time.

A few weeks ago, I got a "re-seat Y cart" message and it stopped printing yellow.  On HP's instruction I replaced the yellow print head. Yellow printing was restored.

A few days ago I got a "Yellow Cart Expired" message, so I replaced it, too, even though it's at 80% or so full. But I couldn't get the "Ready" indication on the front panel, so I assumed that I couldn't print at all.

Now, following a call to HP, I found that I could print, even with an "expired" cart message.

Unfortunately, it's stopped printing yellow again.  It's also stopped printing green, with the B-G head showing a shade of blue where green should be.

What the heck is going on?  Any advice gratefully received.

Peter,

Most likely: Issues with carts and heads feeding from the left side only (Yellow, Green, Blue) cartridge slots may indicate an issue with the hardware at the left side and/or the carriage head PCB. That mainly checks/controls the cartridges, heads and inkflow. Your new yellow cart must have been a recent date one so should not trigger that warning. It could be as simple as bad contacts at the cart slots and more complex with a bad head carriage PCB.

If the cartridge is really expired, date on the cartridge passed, then you just have to accept the expired, no warranty, message and continue. If the cartridge is not expired at all then something is going wrong.  I know Dan bought one of the B version Z3200s that were on the market 1-2? years ago. Is yours from the same batch? Very speculative: Could you both check the firmware version? It may be possible that HP took measures against prolonged use of the chip (either in the firmware or in the cart chips) like we do with our Z3200s, mine Z3200-PS version A.

I go way beyond the chip's date and 130ml capacity. All cartridges have been replaced with 772 size cartridges but two, and they will be replaced too. I cleaned some 772 carts for inks not available in 772 carts and loaded them with inks available in expired carts or 771 carts etc. It is just easier to keep at least a 70 ml in the 772 carts and fill them up to say 240 ml than do something similar with the 130ml carts. Either you overload them or when the ink goes fast air gets in the line. There are some precautions you have to take using empty 772 carts to fill with other inks, this is a warning for anyone who intends to do that.

Very hypothetical again: could there be a wrong date issue in your computer system (say 2025) transferred to your printer or existing in your printer?  Wild guess, I do not even know whether that is possible.

Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst Dinkla

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Peter McLennan

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Re: HP Z3200 "Expired" Carts
« Reply #8 on: March 24, 2020, 02:16:45 pm »

Peter,

Most likely: Issues with carts and heads feeding from the left side only (Yellow, Green, Blue) cartridge slots may indicate an issue with the hardware at the left side and/or the carriage head PCB. That mainly checks/controls the cartridges, heads and inkflow. Your new yellow cart must have been a recent date one so should not trigger that warning. It could be as simple as bad contacts at the cart slots and more complex with a bad head carriage PCB.



Thanks, Ernst, for your detailed response. 

To recap:

1) Yellow cart and head have both been replaced recently.  The recent, re-failure of yellow channel points to an underlying problem not fixed by head and cart replacement.
2) As you say, the new failure of the green channel points to failure of something related to the left hand side hardware.

I did an "all heads" head cleaning, with no change.

Quote
Could you both check the firmware version? It may be possible that HP took measures against prolonged use of the chip (either in the firmware or in the cart chips) like we do with our Z3200s, mine Z3200-PS version A.

Yes, mine appears to be the "B" version.  Purchased in 2017, I believe.

Firmware is TR12-RB_16.0.1.1
Serial is CN6AS6K011
Product # is Q6721B

HP tech support in Costa Rica says that firmware updating will not solve my issue. He also said that I have the most recent firmware.

He suggests manual cleaning of the head contacts and at least three, from-menu head cleanings of the offending channels. 
If that doesn't solve it, replace offending heads. 
If that doesn't solve it, "have printer serviced."  For me, that's a 1600km  return trip to Vancouver. (!)

Are there any diagnostic tools available to test the carriage PCB?

Thanks again for your assistance!
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Peter McLennan

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Re: HP Z3200 "Expired" Carts
« Reply #9 on: March 24, 2020, 04:35:55 pm »

As an update to this issue, I was instructed by HP to clean the print head contacts.  When I pulled the YM head this is what I saw:



Whatever this is, it's sticky.  Is this normal?

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Ernst Dinkla

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Re: HP Z3200 "Expired" Carts
« Reply #10 on: March 25, 2020, 04:14:24 am »

As an update to this issue, I was instructed by HP to clean the print head contacts.  When I pulled the YM head this is what I saw:



Whatever this is, it's sticky.  Is this normal?

No, that is not normal. Clean and dry all the head and cartridge slots and head and cart connectors I would say. Be careful though, so take your time for that job. I would also clean the maintenance station at the right side. Most likely the cause of the ink in the head slots. There have been threads on how to get there.


Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst Dinkla

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Peter McLennan

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Re: HP Z3200 "Expired" Carts
« Reply #11 on: March 25, 2020, 11:54:29 am »

Thanks again, Ernst.  I really appreciate your experienced assistance with this.

For what it’s worth, HP tech support in Costa Rica said that this was “normal”.  “Contact connectivity enhancement”, she said.  But how can they simultaneously advise cleaning the contacts with water and a “lint-free cloth?

It’s sticky, transparent, and can be removed with isopropyl alcohol.  I’m speculating it’s GE. It was present on all the heads.  I’ve not cleaned the cart receiver side, but the heads, when cleaned and then removed again, emerge dry.  I’ll look at the maintenance station next.

Green channel has returned but Y/M and R/K remain problematic.  The red patch shows a gradient of both red and MK ink in the patch.  Is this a clue?

Frustrating to see this in a virtually new printer, but an excellent “self isolation” activity. :)

Again, thanks!
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John Nollendorfs

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Re: HP Z3200 "Expired" Carts
« Reply #12 on: March 25, 2020, 03:13:32 pm »

Thanks again, Ernst.  I really appreciate your experienced assistance with this.

For what it’s worth, HP tech support in Costa Rica said that this was “normal”.  “Contact connectivity enhancement”, she said.  But how can they simultaneously advise cleaning the contacts with water and a “lint-free cloth?

Peter:
These used to recommend cleaning the contacts with a paper coffee filter.
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Peter McLennan

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Re: HP Z3200 "Expired" Carts
« Reply #13 on: March 25, 2020, 03:45:57 pm »

Thanks, John.  The battle continues.
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Ernst Dinkla

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Re: HP Z3200 "Expired" Carts
« Reply #14 on: March 25, 2020, 05:33:01 pm »

Peter,

With the maintenance station filthy it is possible that black ink gets into the red part of the head, different pressure levels etc while cleaning. In worst case it is a head where the barrier between the red and black part is broken. Then the problem persists when you print a red area. I bet on a filthy maintenance station.

Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst Dinkla

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Peter McLennan

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Re: HP Z3200 "Expired" Carts
« Reply #15 on: March 25, 2020, 08:11:46 pm »

Ernst, I've enclosed a diagnostic print image following a Y/M head cleaning.  All colours are now normal except Y, which prints as orange.  The Y head was replaced in January, the Y cart was replaced last week.



I sharpened the image with "texture" in PS to show that all nozzles are firing perfectly, except that yellow prints as orange.

Does this qualify as "filthy" ?   :)



OK, off I go to find instructions on how to clean the maintenance station.

I still can't identify the goo on the print head contact pads, though.

Again, my heartfelt thanks for your ongoing help.
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Ernst Dinkla

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Re: HP Z3200 "Expired" Carts
« Reply #16 on: March 26, 2020, 04:22:04 am »

Peter,

You have the printer for three years now and still some inks on the first set of cartridges? If right I slowly start to grasp what is happening. The Z3200-PS models are wonderful for the user with a  low volume of print jobs but idleness should not be exaggerated.

The station looks so dry! Maybe I am lucky with the humidity we have here. Lots of hair and dust in your's too. We have a cat here but I have never seen a station like that. I have a spray bottle of Windex filled with water + a bit of Windex. Instead of the spray nozzle a tube is placed in that head to pump the fluid on the parts that show up when the head carriage moves to the head exchange position. When parked there and the head carriage lid opened I use a cloth to take off more filth. Wet that felt part near the droplet check window  etc. A normal spray bottle is used as well, again filled with water and some Windex  (Glassex in EU). After cleaning I add some dish wash soap at the edges of the maintenance station box where the train of wipers, pads etc runs on.

And while you are there, put some oil on the sponge tongue that keeps the rear bushing path lubricated.

You really have to keep that station more wet, seals without fluid simply do not function, the waste ink pump will not pull the wasted ink away and when the heads clean they may throw ink from one ink head side into the other. Most likely what happens magenta ink entering the yellow side like shown. Wipers will wear faster when dry. Do not rely on the periodic maintenance cycles only, print patches on paper from time to time when the printer has been idle for some weeks.

I wonder whether the flow of the yellow channel is correct in your printer. That given the empty cart warnings before and the magenta ink getting into the yellow head side. AFAIK the cams on all ink cart pumps work together per side (6 carts) when ink is needed at one ink channel and the valve in the head that needs ink is opened. So 6 channels are on pressure and only one flows then, or more when more heads need ink. If the head still does not get ink enough then it might trigger the empty cart signal, just on the fact that it suffocates, not on the squirted droplets it counted before. Sometimes its helps to heavy shake an older head in that its sieves inside are opened up enough that ink flow returns again. Your yellow head should however be emptied of its magenta ink inflow first though. Print a yellow area long enough that it shows yellow again. Take the head out and shake it (with caps on, or with a cloth around it). It no true yellow appears in the printed area, the head barrier may be kaputt.

If it is GE fluid on the contacts of more head slots then check the GE head whether it leaks. Do you print a lot of glossy media and the full print page instead of GE Economy mode? Might explain it too. I hardly print gloss. But given the volume you print it is unlikely that the issue started by too much use of GE.


Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst Dinkla

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deanwork

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Re: HP Z3200 "Expired" Carts
« Reply #17 on: March 26, 2020, 02:57:21 pm »

God that is horrible. I have a 12 year old z3100 and in its worst day it never looked even remotely like that. There is your problem. No wonder.

I have always cleaned the head contacts with a lint free cloth dampened with distilled water, and the same with the cleaning box on the right side. I clean my cleaning stations about once a month, or more if I’m printing lots of pure color backgrounds, especially black. Helps to have a good work light to see it clearly.  Make sure the heads are dry before reinserting them.




Peter,

You have the printer for three years now and still some inks on the first set of cartridges? If right I slowly start to grasp what is happening. The Z3200-PS models are wonderful for the user with a  low volume of print jobs but idleness should not be exaggerated.

The station looks so dry! Maybe I am lucky with the humidity we have here. Lots of hair and dust in your's too. We have a cat here but I have never seen a station like that. I have a spray bottle of Windex filled with water + a bit of Windex. Instead of the spray nozzle a tube is placed in that head to pump the fluid on the parts that show up when the head carriage moves to the head exchange position. When parked there and the head carriage lid opened I use a cloth to take off more filth. Wet that felt part near the droplet check window  etc. A normal spray bottle is used as well, again filled with water and some Windex  (Glassex in EU). After cleaning I add some dish wash soap at the edges of the maintenance station box where the train of wipers, pads etc runs on.

And while you are there, put some oil on the sponge tongue that keeps the rear bushing path lubricated.

You really have to keep that station more wet, seals without fluid simply do not function, the waste ink pump will not pull the wasted ink away and when the heads clean they may throw ink from one ink head side into the other. Most likely what happens magenta ink entering the yellow side like shown. Wipers will wear faster when dry. Do not rely on the periodic maintenance cycles only, print patches on paper from time to time when the printer has been idle for some weeks.

I wonder whether the flow of the yellow channel is correct in your printer. That given the empty cart warnings before and the magenta ink getting into the yellow head side. AFAIK the cams on all ink cart pumps work together per side (6 carts) when ink is needed at one ink channel and the valve in the head that needs ink is opened. So 6 channels are on pressure and only one flows then, or more when more heads need ink. If the head still does not get ink enough then it might trigger the empty cart signal, just on the fact that it suffocates, not on the squirted droplets it counted before. Sometimes its helps to heavy shake an older head in that its sieves inside are opened up enough that ink flow returns again. Your yellow head should however be emptied of its magenta ink inflow first though. Print a yellow area long enough that it shows yellow again. Take the head out and shake it (with caps on, or with a cloth around it). It no true yellow appears in the printed area, the head barrier may be kaputt.

If it is GE fluid on the contacts of more head slots then check the GE head whether it leaks. Do you print a lot of glossy media and the full print page instead of GE Economy mode? Might explain it too. I hardly print gloss. But given the volume you print it is unlikely that the issue started by too much use of GE.


Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst Dinkla

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« Last Edit: March 26, 2020, 05:46:34 pm by deanwork »
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Peter McLennan

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Re: HP Z3200 "Expired" Carts
« Reply #18 on: March 26, 2020, 07:24:48 pm »

Thanks, Dean and Ernst.  I haven't attacked cleaning the maintenance station today, but I'll get on it.  My understanding was that the printer was taking care of itself in that regard.  Obviously, I have a lot to learn.

I see YouTube videos that detail the complete removal of the black box that is the Maintenance Station in order to clean it.  Is that what you're recommending? I hope not.  I don't relish taking the printer that far apart. 

Or can I just clean the stuff I can reach with the carriage retracted?   Do you have links to cleaning procedures? Should I remove the RHS cover?

I've read Ernst's instructions, and yes, I have cats.  Two of 'em, one of whom is extreeeeemly sheddy.  I was surprised at cat hair on the wiper brush thing.  The printer sits covered when not in use.



"Hamish"  7.2Kg, 8 years old. Phone shot.

Yes, Ernst, the printer has used about 20% of the first set of carts after the "starters".
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deanwork

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Re: HP Z3200 "Expired" Carts
« Reply #19 on: March 26, 2020, 09:16:39 pm »


Nice cat. Yea I banned our cat from my basement studio several years ago. He was mad for awhile and tried to dig into the carpet under the door. You don’t see it but the hair is everywhere. It will also clog the air vents of clothes dryers too! I blew a fuse in my dryer because of that recently.  It will kill print heads. Good thing the HP heads are cheap or you would have a big problem.

No it’s not hard at all to clean the surface of the cleaning box area. You don’t need to take the printer apart to get rid of most of that gunk that’s effecting your heads. I think I did that kind of maintenance once in a decade when we had it apart for a belt change. I was shocked at how little ink had collected in there after years of use. Just keep an eye on it every Month or so, and more frequently for awhile.
 run a few big prints through it every now and then  :-) .

John


Thanks, Dean and Ernst.  I haven't attacked cleaning the maintenance station today, but I'll get on it.  My understanding was that the printer was taking care of itself in that regard.  Obviously, I have a lot to learn.

I see YouTube videos that detail the complete removal of the black box that is the Maintenance Station in order to clean it.  Is that what you're recommending? I hope not.  I don't relish taking the printer that far apart. 

Or can I just clean the stuff I can reach with the carriage retracted?   Do you have links to cleaning procedures? Should I remove the RHS cover?

I've read Ernst's instructions, and yes, I have cats.  Two of 'em, one of whom is extreeeeemly sheddy.  I was surprised at cat hair on the wiper brush thing.  The printer sits covered when not in use.



"Hamish"  7.2Kg, 8 years old. Phone shot.

Yes, Ernst, the printer has used about 20% of the first set of carts after the "starters".
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