Bernie defends Castro

[Alan Klein]

In Belgium people are obliged to vote, not in the Netherlands .
If you vote blanco you express that you can/want not make a choice but you find it important to be able to vote. Your vote is counted.
I believe in the US only 25% of the people vote...

61.3% in 2016.  Here a chart for the last couple of hundred years.  We had higher rates around 80% in the 1800's. 
https://guides.libraries.psu.edu/post-election-2016/voter-turnout

[Ray]

Indefinitely!?

Yes, provided the unemployed person meets the requirement to apply for a certain number of jobs each month. If they still haven't found a job after 12 months, there is a requirement for them to join a 'Work for the Dole' program.

There is a derogatory term, 'dole bludger', which is often used to describe people who refuse jobs that they are competent to do but don't want to do, so that they can remain on the dole, and this is a problem

"Work for the Dole is a work experience program, under 'jobactive', for the long-term unemployed (12 months or longer), and is one way a job seeker can meet their mutual obligation requirements. Most job seekers will not be required to participate in 'Work for the Dole' because they find a job in the first 12 months of being on income support."

More information here:
https://www.employment.gov.au/newsroom/explainer-work-dole

and here: https://www.employment.gov.au/jobactive

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Ray, how much “work for the dole” pays and can it really last indefinitely?

[kers]

Ray, how much “work for the dole” pays and can it really last indefinitely?

We have about the same social system in the Netherlands...
The bottom line is that all people still have a basic income. That income is very low, so there is always a reason to start working if you are able.
There will always be some misuse of the system but overall it works.
People want to work, and take part of society.

[Rob C]

Many problems in that sector are caused by people with dysfunctional brains. There are folks sleeping in the street who refuse shelter, and there are those who can't find it; life is not a sweet, straight-line progression of input = output +.

Very often, you can put in all you're worth and still come up with an empty net. Try professional photography if you doubt that. It isn't even just a measure of how competent you may be, but of where you are, whom you can get to meet, and also very much how lucky you are. I simply refuse to believe anyone who tells you they did it all on their own; luck plays a huge part in which doors open and which not, as does hitting the right moment.

Success often brings with it a short memory of how you got there.

Rob

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

We have about the same social system in the Netherlands...
The bottom line is that all people still have a basic income. That income is very low...

So, how low? what’s the number?

[Ray]

Ray, how much “work for the dole” pays and can it really last indefinitely?

The support lasts indefinitely, but the type of support, or the name of the support, will change over time. If a person is unable to get a job after many years, despite all the opportunities of training in 'Work for the Dole', then there is probably some other basic problem that has to be addressed, such as a medical or psychiatric problem.

In Australia we have a free health service for those who are unemployed and/or do not have private health insurance, and also for those who are at retirement age and are receiving a government-funded age pension because their income or assets are below a certain threshold.

However, there are some disadvantages in the free health care system. If the problem is not urgent or life-threatening, one might be on a waiting list for some time, whereas the richer person with private health cover can get immediate treatment for any minor problem.

How much does an unemployed person currently get in Australia? A check on the internet reveals a figure of A$492.60 per fortnight for a single person, plus $121 per fortnight in rental assistance if the unemployed person does not own their own home and is renting a room. That's a total of $613.60 per fortnight. Not much. However, a 2 litre carton of full cream milk (or 4.23 pints for you Americans  ) costs as little as $2.35 in Australia.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

... How much does an unemployed person currently get in Australia? A check on the internet reveals a figure of A$492.60 per fortnight...

Is that for the first 12 months or when "on the dole"?

[kers]

So, how low? what’s the number?

We have at the moment 413.000 people in that social lowest sector- we call 'bijstand' (support)
9.1000.000 people have a job about 230.000 are unemployed.
So about 0.5% are in the 'Bijstand'
Bijstand is about 1000€ a month.  That is really basic to live from..
The legal basic income for people that work = 1650€
At the moment the rents in Amsterdam are very high; people can work in the city, but need to live outside it.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

... Bijstand is about 1000€ a month...

I am moving to Holland.

[Alan Klein]

Where is Bloomberg?

He's waiting to be be anointed at the Democratic convention.

[Alan Klein]

In America there's also unemployment insurance and disability insurance (SSDI) provided by Social Security.  Unemployment insurance (insurance premiums paid by the employer) kicks in  when you are laid off.  In NYS for example, it lasts for 6 months with a maximum of $500 per week.  It provides some income while you're looking for another job. 

US government provided SSDI protects people permanently who become disabled.   Many states have adjuncts to this providing additional monies that are made available.  Veterans of course can get free medical care from the Veterans Administration.

Additional, the US has food programs and many other welfare programs providing support systems.  One thing we learned is that taking people off of welfare actually helped people get on their feet sooner and is a better long term solution.  There were families that were on the dole for generation after generation encouraging out of marriage childbearing to increase payments and coincidentally increasing the damage to many children because fathers are encourage to be absent so the welfare continues.  Reducing welfare payouts and requiring people to work have reduced this problem.

[Ray]

Our Constitution protects free speech.  Free speech isn't free if the government can force you to speak.  Dictatorships force people to vote even if they;re the only candidate running.  They do this just to legitimize their power and position. 

Why should someone be forced to legitimize one or the other of two people if neither is capable in your mind?  Not voting tells the parties they should do better in picking qualified people if they want your vote.  Twisting the voter's arm and forcing them to vote is taking away their freedom to express their opinion.

Okay! It seems I haven't explained the situation in Australia clearly enough. Of course a government cannot literally force a person to speak or vote, just as they cannot force a person to drive a car below a particular speed limit on a road.

Breaking the speed limit is a more serious offense and the fine is greater. If the offense is repeated too often, one's driver's licence is cancelled. However, as far as I know, there is a type of freedom to refrain from voting by simply paying the fine, or turning up and making an invalid or informal vote which won't be counted. Elections don't happen often, so a $50 fine is no big deal. If one can't afford the $50 fine, then that's reason enough to vote for the socialist Labour Party, or someone like Bernie Sanders. 

I should also point out that Australian citizens do not elect the 'President' or Prime Minister. The country is divided into electorates, and each electorate always has a significant number of candidates belonging to different parties, and sometimes candidates independent of all parties, all competing for the one seat, in either the House of Representatives or the Senate, that represents a particular electorate. It's extremely unlikely there could be only one candidate in an electorate. Voters also have to show preferences on the ballot paper for the other candidates. If there are 4 candidates, for example, one has to rate each candidate from 1st preference to 4th preference.

Voting in Australia is considered both a right and a responsibility.

[Alan Klein]

Okay! It seems I haven't explained the situation in Australia clearly enough. Of course a government cannot literally force a person to speak or vote, just as they cannot force a person to drive a car below a particular speed limit on a road.

Breaking the speed limit is a more serious offense and the fine is greater. If the offense is repeated too often, one's driver's licence is cancelled. However, as far as I know, there is a type of freedom to refrain from voting by simply paying the fine, or turning up and making an invalid or informal vote which won't be counted. Elections don't happen often, so a $50 fine is no big deal. If one can't afford the $50 fine, then that's reason enough to vote for the socialist Labour Party, or someone like Bernie Sanders. 

I should also point out that Australian citizens do not elect the 'President' or Prime Minister. The country is divided into electorates, and each electorate always has a significant number of candidates belonging to different parties, and sometimes candidates independent of all parties, all competing for the one seat, in either the House of Representatives or the Senate, that represents a particular electorate. It's extremely unlikely there could be only one candidate in an electorate. Voters also have to show preferences on the ballot paper for the other candidates. If there are 4 candidates, for example, one has to rate each candidate from 1st preference to 4th preference.

Voting in Australia is considered both a right and a responsibility.

Driving in America is not constitutionally protected.  It's a privilege that is provided by each of the 50 states.  It can be given and can be taken away from you.  Speech is on the other hand constitutionally protected. You never can lose your right to speak or not speak if you so desire.  Imposing a fine does take your freedom away.  What if they raised it to $500 or even a week in jail?   Regardless of your rationale for wanting people to vote, and it has many reasonable points, the US Constitution does not allow government officials to force people to vote because voting is a form of speech.    It's why people have died trying to get to get into our country.   

Once a government can claim you have a "responsibility", that's just an excuse for your loss of individual liberty. 

You have a "responsibility" to support and not to criticize your government and vote for the parties they put on the ballet. Where's your free speech then?

[LesPalenik]

Germany remains the only EU state for the freedom loving drivers - no speed limit on its autobahns.
Although, one party there has been advocating for 130kmh limit.

Are there any other countries with no speed limit?

[Rob C]

I am moving to Holland.

I would have joined you; makes my UK state pension look miserable. I always felt it was embarrassingly miserable when comparing with other retired Europeans living here mainly on their pensions. Did I not own my apartment, it would be impossible to live here - or probably anywhere else in Europe, for that matter.

We Brits have many stark reality checks we are going to have to make really soon.

:-(

[Rob C]

Germany remains the only EU state for the freedom loving drivers - no speed limit on its autobahns.
Although, one party there has been advocating for 130kmh limit.

Are there any other countries with no speed limit?

That's the same limit as in France, when we used to drive there. In Mallorca, it's 120 kph.

[Alan Klein]

Germany remains the only EU state for the freedom loving drivers - no speed limit on its autobahns.
Although, one party there has been advocating for 130kmh limit.

Are there any other countries with no speed limit?

Speed limits?

[LesPalenik]

That's the same limit as in France, when we used to drive there. In Mallorca, it's 120 kph.

In USA, there are some highway stretches with 80 mph (129kmh) speed limit - in Idaho, Montana, Nevada, South Dakota, Texas, Utah, and Wyoming you can still find fast and almost deserted roads. The highest posted speed limit in USA is on the Texas State Highway 130 - 85 mph (137 km/h).
In Europe, there are quite a few countries with 130kmh limits on their main highways.

[faberryman]

Speed limits?

You know, when driving a car around town.