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Author Topic: Preferred Calibration tools - Xrite or Spyder?  (Read 1760 times)

Lessbones

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Re: Preferred Calibration tools - Xrite or Spyder?
« Reply #20 on: February 14, 2020, 03:41:08 pm »

i1Pros usually have ~2-3 ∆E2k errors on spiky spectra backlights, while i1D3 with proper spectral correction is close to ~1 or even less ∆E2k to reference. That means correction matrix can make things worse, it's better to create .ccss correction using 3,3nm mode or use generic X-Rite PFS correction done with high resolution CS-1000 spectroradiometer.

SpectraView II uses internal factory calibrations done with lab grade Konica-Minoltas spectroradiometers and colorimeters (CS-2000, CA-310 and CA-2500 for uniformity) worth thousands of $ each, making it perfectly linear. While factory calibration they're  most probably programming the first internal 14(16)bit 3DLUT.

While creating a 17^3 3DLUT with DisplayCAL you're using much inferior sensor and you're limited to 8 bit display path, and you only put it to second "external softproofing 3DLUT" so it's impossible to achieve the factory level of accuracy that way.

This is all very interesting, and while I see your point, how is one meant to compensate for drift over time in that scenario?  Do you have a ccss made from when you measured the PA271q with your reference spectroradiometer?  (not sure if you own it or if it was borrowed), because I'd love to at least attempt some verification reports using that with an i1d3.
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Brookie

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Re: Preferred Calibration tools - Xrite or Spyder?
« Reply #21 on: February 14, 2020, 04:31:31 pm »

You can change the SW2700PT gamut by changing modes or calibrating it to smaller space, so most probably you did it unintentionally. There's no way the display could deteriorate in this way, and Spyder 5 shouldn't go bad as well. Are you calibrating it with Color Palette software? Check what color mode is selected in OSD menu.

Czornyj,
Thanks for the reply. Out of curiosity I just ran another full calibration using Pallette Master Element (PME) with the Spyder5 plugged into a USB port on the side of the monitor. I donít see an opportunity to change the color space in the calibration set up process, unless you mean changing color space using the hockey puck toggle - which I have set to Adobe RGB.

So when I do a full recalibration as noted above, then follow it up with a validation in PME, the results indicate a deltaE avg = 0.47 with a range of 0.09 to 0.78 which seems pretty good. But if I just check the calibration in the Spyder launch application it indicates 97% of sRGB but only 72% of Adobe RGB. That just doesnít seem right??

Can you tell if I am simply doing something wrong?
Thanks,
Brookie
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rasworth

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Re: Preferred Calibration tools - Xrite or Spyder?
« Reply #22 on: February 14, 2020, 05:47:54 pm »

Brookie,

I have a SW2700PT - using PME for calibration and profiling I obtain a larger gamut volume than Adobe 1998, although there is some poke thru in the greens, per the attached image.  The wireframe represents the monitor gamut, and the solid is Adobe 1998.  Post a link to your profile and I'll check its gamut with ColorThink Pro, not sure what the Spyder launch application is or does.

Richard Southworth

Added by edit - I use a Xrite Display Pro.

« Last Edit: February 14, 2020, 07:49:31 pm by rasworth »
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Brookie

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Re: Preferred Calibration tools - Xrite or Spyder?
« Reply #23 on: February 14, 2020, 09:58:50 pm »

Brookie,

I have a SW2700PT - using PME for calibration and profiling I obtain a larger gamut volume than Adobe 1998, although there is some poke thru in the greens, per the attached image.  The wireframe represents the monitor gamut, and the solid is Adobe 1998.  Post a link to your profile and I'll check its gamut with ColorThink Pro, not sure what the Spyder launch application is or does.

Richard Southworth

Added by edit - I use a Xrite Display Pro.

Richard,
Thanks for the reply. I did not save the previous validation report that I pulled the numbers above from. So I reran a full calibration followed by a validation in PME. Not quite as good a result this go Ďround, but it still ďpassesĒ. Here is a copy of the new validation report.

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rasworth

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Re: Preferred Calibration tools - Xrite or Spyder?
« Reply #24 on: February 14, 2020, 11:05:51 pm »

I thought your concern was the monitor profile gamut volume as compared to Adobe 1998 - again, post a link to the profile so I can download, and I'll check it.  Not worried about validation, it looks ok, similar to mine.

Richard Southworth
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Brookie

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Re: Preferred Calibration tools - Xrite or Spyder?
« Reply #25 on: February 15, 2020, 11:49:54 am »

Richard,
I am a rookie at this and am definitely confused, as youíve probably already guessed. Iím not sure where to find what you are asking for on my computer. Do you mean the profile that results from Display Calibrator Assistant (accessible from system pref/display/color)?  Iím guessing that is not what you mean since you are asking for a ďlinkĒ and what I just mentioned is on my computer and not accessible via a link. Sorry, Iím in the weeds here and not sure what to find for you. I appreciate your offer to help, if you could also help me find what it is you want from my laptop that would be great. The more I try to figure this out, the more I realize how little I really understand the process.........
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rasworth

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Re: Preferred Calibration tools - Xrite or Spyder?
« Reply #26 on: February 15, 2020, 04:03:38 pm »

Brookie,

sorry, my fault, should have been clearer.  I would like to examine the actual profile, SW2700.....icc.  I think the best way is for you to zip it, i.e. compress it into a xxx.zip file, and attach it to your reply.  Don't remember what os you're running, if Windows 10 you can right click on the profile file, left click on Send to, and choose compressed (zipped) folder.  I'm sure there is a similar process for Macs.

Richard Southworth
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Brookie

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Re: Preferred Calibration tools - Xrite or Spyder?
« Reply #27 on: February 15, 2020, 09:45:41 pm »

Richard I'm using Mac OS current with Catalina.  For some reason the forum isn't letting me upload the zip file even though it is only 5kb.  And it won't let me upload the original 16kb file because of the .icc extension. 

FWIW the file name is SW2700 2_D65_L80_G22_Rel_2020-02-15T01.55.16Z.icc.zip

Here is a screen shot of what the file looks like when I open it.  Hope that does the trick.

Thanks,
Brookie
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rasworth

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Re: Preferred Calibration tools - Xrite or Spyder?
« Reply #28 on: February 16, 2020, 10:44:31 am »

Brookie,

The only way I can check the profile file is to have a copy.  If you want to proceed, I suggest you try:

1. Create a copy of the file, so that the original is safe
2. Rename to something simple, like test.icc - I suspect the multiple periods may be causing the problem.
3. Zip up the file, resulting in test.zip
4. Now try to attach to a reply

Richard Southworth

Added by edit - or rename the zip file you've already created to test.zip, and try to attach
« Last Edit: February 16, 2020, 11:50:12 am by rasworth »
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Brookie

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Re: Preferred Calibration tools - Xrite or Spyder?
« Reply #29 on: February 16, 2020, 11:50:38 am »

Let's see if this works!
Thanks Richard!
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rasworth

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Re: Preferred Calibration tools - Xrite or Spyder?
« Reply #30 on: February 16, 2020, 12:18:21 pm »

Your gamut is ok, very similar to mine.  In the attached image the wireframe represents your display profile gamut, and solid is Adobe 1998.  There is slight poke-thru, but for all practical purposes your display gamut encompasses the Adobe 1998 gamut.

Richard Southworth
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rasworth

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Re: Preferred Calibration tools - Xrite or Spyder?
« Reply #31 on: February 16, 2020, 12:28:02 pm »

Brookie,

Another test you should perform - decompress the attached file, load the resulting tif into Photoshop, rotate to horizontal and blow it up to fit the screen.  You should see little (preferably no) tint in any of the neutral slices.  Also you should be able to distinguish each slice from its neighbor.

Richard Southworth
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Brookie

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Re: Preferred Calibration tools - Xrite or Spyder?
« Reply #32 on: February 16, 2020, 12:31:34 pm »

Richard,
Thatís really cool, how did you do that?  It is interesting comparing the image of your monitor gamut to mine - in particular the upper red-orange-blue-violet area behind the green peak - on the image for my monitor it appears to have lower and more extended slope, whereas, your monitor looks to have a steeper more abrupt taper. Is that just a difference in the angle which you are viewing the two 3D projections from, or does it tell us something different about our profiles?

Thanks again for taking time to help an old rookie out, it is really appreciated!!!
Brookie (aka Dave Cornue)
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Brookie

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Re: Preferred Calibration tools - Xrite or Spyder?
« Reply #33 on: February 16, 2020, 01:10:06 pm »

Brookie,

Another test you should perform - decompress the attached file, load the resulting tif into Photoshop, rotate to horizontal and blow it up to fit the screen.  You should see little (preferably no) tint in any of the neutral slices.  Also you should be able to distinguish each slice from its neighbor.

Richard Southworth

Richard,
The two blackest strips are indistinguishable from each other, the third is very barely distinguishable from 1 and 2, from there on out to white all strips are easily distinguishable from each other.  I do have my profile set for a lower screen brightness to make printing more predictable, so that may be why strips are harder to see on the black end than on the white end.  There is a slight olive tint to some of the midrange strips and a couple mid to high range strips have a magenta tint.  Oddly enough the magenta tint does not seem to be equally distributed, two strips really show it, others do not.  Also, it is interesting that the tints are more visible when viewed in LR than when viewed in PS.  Wonder why that is?
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rasworth

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Re: Preferred Calibration tools - Xrite or Spyder?
« Reply #34 on: February 16, 2020, 01:34:10 pm »

The image has no embedded profile, so it takes on your default workspace.  Try assigning various standard workspaces, see if that affects the black separation.  Start in Photoshop, assign ProPhoto, save it out and load into Lightroom, should look identical.  As far as color tint, you may get better results creating a LUT based profile instead of matrix.  I can see very slight tint in a few of mine, it may be that as good as this display is for the money it isn't in the same league as the more expensive NEC, etc.

Also the neutral performance is affected by the accuracy of the measuring device and number of patches in the target.  Make sure your room is dim, hopefully the puck seals well against the screen but better to calibrate/profile in lower light.  I'm assuming you're using the advanced mode in Palette Master Element, and that you've upgraded to the latest version.  I use absolute black point, have had some problems in the past using relative.

Richard Southworth
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rasworth

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Re: Preferred Calibration tools - Xrite or Spyder?
« Reply #35 on: February 16, 2020, 02:12:11 pm »

Brookie,

The attached image is normally used for printer profile checking, but it is also useful to assess display profiles.  You can google on the name and download the original tif.

Richard Southworth
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Brookie

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Re: Preferred Calibration tools - Xrite or Spyder?
« Reply #36 on: February 16, 2020, 08:07:50 pm »

Richard,
Thanks for the suggestions. I probably wonít be able to get back to them for a couple days though.
Iíve been using a similar Datacolor image to test different papers. Iíll take a look at this one too.
Thanks for all your help!
Brookie
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Alan Klein

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Re: Preferred Calibration tools - Xrite or Spyder?
« Reply #37 on: February 16, 2020, 08:26:41 pm »

Andrew: Where does the Spectraview II fit in the graph? (with NEC PA242W monitor)

digitaldog

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Re: Preferred Calibration tools - Xrite or Spyder?
« Reply #38 on: February 16, 2020, 08:36:20 pm »

Andrew: Where does the Spectraview II fit in the graph? (with NEC PA242W monitor)
I don't understand the question.
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Andrew Rodney
Author ďColor Management for Photographers"

Alan Klein

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Re: Preferred Calibration tools - Xrite or Spyder?
« Reply #39 on: February 16, 2020, 08:39:38 pm »

I don't understand the question.
I forget who makes the sensor for the NEC Spectraview II PA242W monitor.  So which of the devices shown in the chart is that puck or isn't it shown?  If not, where would it fall if you know?  Tks. 
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