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Author Topic: After The Acquittal  (Read 14299 times)

LesPalenik

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After The Acquittal
« on: February 09, 2020, 08:30:34 am »

Suzanne Collins Republican Senator Susan Collins announced Tuesday she will vote to acquit President Trump in his Senate trial, telling CBS News she believes the president has learned a "pretty big lesson" from impeachment and will be "much more cautious".

What Trump learned that he can get away with anything. Well, not even Goebbels was as bold in manipulating the truth.

https://www.theverge.com/2020/2/7/21128317/nancy-pelosi-donald-trump-disinformation-policy-video-state-of-the-untion

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A Facebook spokesperson told The Verge that the clip does not violate its new rules against deepfakes.A Twitter spokesperson noted that the platform’s most recent deepfakes policy does not go into effect until March, and declined to say whether it would apply to the video tweeted by Trump. YouTube said the reposts of the video did not violate the platform’s community guidelines.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2020, 12:56:21 pm by Jeremy Roussak »
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kers

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Re: After The Acquital
« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2020, 09:19:13 am »

That speech she ripped apart has the size of a telephone book... ;)
She had to start right away ripping or otherwise there was not enough time to complete..
Interesting montage...
gives the impression that she might be still there ripping and ripping...
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RSL

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Re: After The Acquital
« Reply #2 on: February 09, 2020, 09:39:44 am »

...gives the impression that she might be still there ripping and ripping...

In her mind she probably still is ripping. She was center stage during the rip.
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: After The Acquital
« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2020, 09:44:50 am »

... Well, not even Goebbels was as bold in manipulating the truth...

There you go again, Les, another Nazi comparison  :(

As for the video, Facebook got it right this time. Editing is done from actual footage for dramatic purposes. Like ominous music in films. For.Dramatic.Purposes.*


*just like this latest fashion of emphasising by separating a sentence into single words, with a full stop after each word.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2020, 09:51:16 am by Slobodan Blagojevic »
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kers

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Re: After The Acquital
« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2020, 09:55:49 am »

There you go again, Les, another Nazi comparison  :(

As for the video, Facebook got it right this time. Editing is done from actual footage for dramatic purposes. Like ominous music in films. For.Dramatic.Purposes.*


*just like this latest fashion of emphasising by separating a sentence into single words, with a full stop after each word.

They could make it even more dramatic with some VERY LOUD ripping sound.... all through the video
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: After The Acquital
« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2020, 10:02:47 am »

They could make it even more dramatic with some VERY LOUD ripping sound.... all through the video

Wagner instead? ;)

RSL

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Re: After The Acquital
« Reply #6 on: February 09, 2020, 10:23:57 am »

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JoeKitchen

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Re: After The Acquital
« Reply #7 on: February 09, 2020, 10:34:41 am »

You know, the Republicans are not the only ones who do this.  A couple of weeks ago, Joe Biden put out an attack ad that showed Trump talking to I believe the UN.  He said something along the lines that his administration achieved more then any other in the history of the country, and then showed the crowd laughing.  This was followed up by Trump saying that he was not expecting that. 

In reality though, only one or two people laughed after the first statement.  Then Trump said that he did not expect that, and that is when the larger audience started laughing.  The Biden campaign took the audio of the 2nd larger amount of laughter, that was obviously directed at Trump's jest he made at the one or two people laughing, and put it in after Trump's first statement to make it look like the entire audience was laughing at his first statement instead. 

Here is a link to the video!

Now if you don't have a problem with this, you're being a hypocrite. 

Now if you are wondering if I have a problem with either, well, politics is a blood sport.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2020, 11:05:56 am by JoeKitchen »
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LesPalenik

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Re: After The Acquital
« Reply #8 on: February 09, 2020, 10:35:40 am »

As for the video, Facebook got it right this time. Editing is done from actual footage for dramatic purposes. Like ominous music in films. For.Dramatic.Purposes.*

You mean, it was just an example of a creative editing, using artists's freedom concept for the "corrected" footage version?
« Last Edit: February 09, 2020, 10:39:56 am by LesPalenik »
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Chairman Bill

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Re: After The Acquital
« Reply #9 on: February 09, 2020, 10:47:54 am »

Trump is innocent in the same way that OJ Simpson is innocent.

Jeremy Roussak

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Re: After The Acquital
« Reply #10 on: February 09, 2020, 01:32:47 pm »

What Trump learned that he can get away with anything. Well, not even Goebbels was as bold in manipulating the truth.

It's pretty unusual for Godwin's Law to be met by the first post in a thread, and any objective reader would consider the comparison to be beneath contempt; you undermine any valid point you might be able to make.

The next person to make hyperbolic Nazi comparisons in this or any other political thread will be banned.

Jeremy
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James Clark

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Re: After The Acquital
« Reply #11 on: February 09, 2020, 01:51:47 pm »

It's pretty unusual for Godwin's Law to be met by the first post in a thread, and any objective reader would consider the comparison to be beneath contempt; you undermine any valid point you might be able to make.

The next person to make hyperbolic Nazi comparisons in this or any other political thread will be banned.

Jeremy

Jeremy - while I might not agree with the comparison of one in hindsight to the current outcome yet to be determined, and while I would definitely agree that what the current administration has done does not warrant a comparison to the Holocaust (or that anything the previous administration or current left-wing candidates propose equates to Stalinist), the comparison of the media manipulation, gaslighting, and disinformation to Goebbels' pre-war tactics is by no means "beneath contempt" on an academic level.

From Nicholas O'Shaugnessy, whose book was adapted into an excellent article on Slate that I would encourage everyone to read.  Thing is, when the comparisons are exact, the chance to do anything about them will be long past.

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According to Goebbels, what was distinctive about the Nazis was “the ability to see into the soul of the people and to speak the language of the man in the street.”19 The propagandist was an artist who “sensed the secret vibrations of the people.”20 What distinguished European fascism above all was its discovery of new ways, a methodology, of speaking to the working class. The fascists were not ashamed of mass media and marketing, understood the cultures of consumerism, and recognized the role these now played in the lives of the masses; media was a new language with which the masses were now familiar, including its styles, forms, and assumptions. Fascists were at ease in this exciting new world and recognized that it could be exploited for political purposes, both as a source of methods and as a new kind of culture with a different set of governing assumptions.

As I've stated before, this certainly isn't unique to Trump -  it's a tactic used by all successful populist demagogues, but the simple fact that it's now being used by Trump does not lower the comparison to "beyond the pale," however controversial it might be to some to make the comparison.



 
« Last Edit: February 09, 2020, 01:54:59 pm by James Clark »
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Rob C

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Re: After The Acquital
« Reply #12 on: February 09, 2020, 03:07:10 pm »

Who gave Godwin divine right to write new tablets of stone?

:-)

LesPalenik

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Re: After The Acquital
« Reply #13 on: February 09, 2020, 03:25:23 pm »

Jeremy, I am aware of the sensitive use of my reference, and now I regret for using it. It was more the method and audacity of creating misleading information than correlating it to Nazis. I could have used a comparison to Walter Honecker in the East German regime or Brezhnev's agitators in Soviet Union, but their agitprop records and methods are not so well known.

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Agitprop, abbreviated from Russian agitatsiya propaganda (agitation propaganda), political strategy in which the techniques of agitation and propaganda are used to influence and mobilize public opinion. Although the strategy is common, both the label and an obsession with it were specific to the Marxism practiced by communists in the Soviet Union.

Expanding on these notions in his pamphlet What Is to Be Done? (1902), Vladimir Lenin stated that the propagandist, whose primary medium is print, explains the causes of social inequities such as unemployment or hunger, while the agitator, whose primary medium is speech, seizes on the emotional aspects of these issues to arouse his audience to indignation or action. Agitation is thus the use of political slogans and half-truths to exploit the grievances of the public and thereby to mold public opinion and mobilize public support. Propaganda, by contrast, is the reasoned use of historical and scientific arguments to indoctrinate the educated and so-called “enlightened” members of society, such as party members.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/agitprop
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: After The Acquital
« Reply #14 on: February 09, 2020, 05:04:34 pm »

Now this is gettin serious and out of hand.

I must protest in strongest terms the campaign by Les, James, Manoli et al to portray the current situation to the Nazi or Soviet propaganda methods.

That is incorrect, ridiculous, and contemptible.

digitaldog

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Re: After The Acquital
« Reply #15 on: February 09, 2020, 05:11:17 pm »

Now this is gettin serious and out of hand.

I must protest in strongest terms the campaign by Les, James, Manoli et al to portray the current situation to the Nazi or Soviet propaganda methods.

That is incorrect, ridiculous, and contemptible.
Like most of the political centric posts in the Coffee Corner on a site that was once about photography. Easy to solve all this serious, out of hand ridiculous and contemptible behavior from all sides but the power’s to be, and many members here can’t fathom using LuLa forums to discuss all things Photography, (or coffee) which is AFAIK, the original aim of this site/forum.    :'(
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LesPalenik

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Re: After The Acquital
« Reply #16 on: February 09, 2020, 05:39:09 pm »

Like most of the political centric posts in the Coffee Corner on a site that was once about photography. Easy to solve all this serious, out of hand ridiculous and contemptible behavior from all sides but the power’s to be, and many members here can’t fathom using LuLa forums to discuss all things Photography, (or coffee) which is AFAIK, the original aim of this site/forum.    :'(

There is some truth in your statement, Andrew
Actually, it would be far more valuable to know what editing tools Trump's video guys used for their creation. Final Cut Pro or Premiere Pro?
Perhaps even a short tutorial how to do it. Now that Facebook and Twitter endorsed it, there may be a lot of demand in the future for this type of reportage.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2020, 09:58:41 pm by LesPalenik »
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James Clark

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Re: After The Acquital
« Reply #17 on: February 09, 2020, 06:27:42 pm »

Now this is gettin serious and out of hand.

I must protest in strongest terms the campaign by Les, James, Manoli et al to portray the current situation to the Nazi or Soviet propaganda methods.

That is incorrect, ridiculous, and contemptible.

It's not, though.

Comparing the Trump administration to someone who would murder millions of Jews, or throw millions of dissidents into the gulags, or comparing Republican voters to brownshirts, would be exactly as you say. 

Discussing the technical methods used by the various power structures to propagate lies is at least as fair as calling Democrats Stalinists.

Edit:  All that said, though, I offer my sincere apologies and assurances that I am NOT equating anyone here to Hitler in any way, shape or form.  But I would love if if some of y'all would read the article I linked to and let me know where the author's analogy fails, and why I shouldn't be concerned.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2020, 06:33:40 pm by James Clark »
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James Clark

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Re: After The Acquital
« Reply #18 on: February 09, 2020, 06:28:56 pm »

Like most of the political centric posts in the Coffee Corner on a site that was once about photography. Easy to solve all this serious, out of hand ridiculous and contemptible behavior from all sides but the power’s to be, and many members here can’t fathom using LuLa forums to discuss all things Photography, (or coffee) which is AFAIK, the original aim of this site/forum.    :'(

But I hate coffee :(

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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: After The Acquital
« Reply #19 on: February 09, 2020, 06:44:26 pm »

... Discussing the technical methods used by the various power structures to propagate lies is at least as fair as calling Democrats Stalinists.

Ok, but there is no comparison in methods either. Today, there is no method, no theoretical underpinning, no apparatus to spread it. You et al are forgetting that both Nazis and Soviets were one-party systems with no opposition, and a vast government apparatus to spread and control propaganda. And harsh measures for dissent.

Today, you have 80% of the media against the President. You have the Congress against him. On the opposite side is just one man - one man - with his natural inclination for hyperbole and simplification. No theory behind it, no training. You think Trump read What is to be Done by comrade Lenin? Or any other propaganda manual? Or any other book, for that matter? As an aside, Obama did read his mentor's Rules for Radicals and applied it.

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