Extreme Politics

[KLaban]

I don;t think he believes he is paying for it.  That's why I asked.  So many people think that "free" services they get from the government is actually free.  At the end of the day, higher taxes to offset health care is similar to paying health insurance premiums.  You pay for it in advance and at the time you need medical care, you're not being charged, other than deductibles and copays.  But you pay, and pay , and pay, in both cases.

You really need to read what it is I'm writing.

Rob, I see what you mean!

[Alan Klein]

You really need to read what it is I'm writing.

Rob, I see what you mean!

Despite what you say, you still really think it's free.  All liberals and socialists think government services are free.  Or the other guy is paying for it. 

[Rob C]

You really need to read what it is I'm writing.

Rob, I see what you mean!

Q.E.D.

:-)

[faberryman]

Despite what you say, you still really think it's free.  All liberals and socialists think government services are free.  Or the other guy is paying for it. 

Nonsense.

[Alan Klein]

Nonsense.

What's nonsense.  That you don;t believe government services are free?  Or that the other guy is not paying for it?

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

I don;t think he believes he is paying for it...

As I explained, people who use the term "free-at-the-point-of-access" use it for a reason. Otherwise, they would just say "free."

Keith may or may not be liberal or whatever, but he surely isn't stupid or uneducated. We've been so many times over this "free" stuff, reminding everyone about taxes, that Keith is surely aware of that. That is exactly why he used the term "free-at-the-point-of-access."

[KLaban]

As I explained, people who use the term "free-at-the-point-of-access" use it for a reason. Otherwise, they would just say "free."

Keith may or may not be liberal or whatever, but he surely isn't stupid or uneducated. We've been so many times over this "free" stuff, reminding everyone about taxes, that Keith is surely aware of that. That is exactly why he used the term "free-at-the-point-of-access."

Thank you, Slobodan.

Rob, I've never done that thing before, but I think I'll follow your lead.

;-)

[Alan Klein]

As I explained, people who use the term "free-at-the-point-of-access" use it for a reason. Otherwise, they would just say "free."

Keith may or may not be liberal or whatever, but he surely isn't stupid or uneducated. We've been so many times over this "free" stuff, reminding everyone about taxes, that Keith is surely aware of that. That is exactly why he used the term "free-at-the-point-of-access."

I understand what he's saying.  But it is a meaningless statement.  It's spin.  It's like saying my health insurance premiums that I paid for in the past every month allows me free medical care at the point of service.  That has no meaning except fooling myself that it's free.  YOU"RE PAYING FOR IT WITH YOUR PREMIUMS. With the government you're paying for it with your taxes.   Free at the point of service is trying to convince yourself that you got a great deal.

Pay now or pay later. 

[Rob C]

Thank you, Slobodan.

Rob, I've never done that thing before, but I think I'll follow your lead.

;-)

It preserved my sanity; that gets challenges enough when I try telephoning some service and get put though to some goddam entity that prevents me from speaking with a person. Willing conversations with robots and rubber walls constitute self-inflicted damage.

Try the button: bliss!

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

...Free at the point of service is trying to convince yourself that you got a great deal...

I actually got a great deal when in Spain. A free appendectomy, and a week of recovery in a university hospital. And I wasn't even paying taxes in Spain, just renting an apartment there longer than six months (so, yes, the other guy paid for me). I've never denied that it is a wonderful feeling of not having to pay for a medical service.

[Alan Klein]

I actually got a great deal when in Spain. A free appendectomy, and a week of recovery in a university hospital. And I wasn't even paying taxes in Spain, just renting an apartment there longer than six months (so, yes, the other guy paid for me). I've never denied that it is a wonderful feeling of not having to pay for a medical service.

Well,  you were a visitor but it was great they picked up the cost.  But for locals who live there, they're paying taxes, VATs or whatever that pays for the services.  My reference to other wsa for people who are local but don;t earn enough to pay much taxes.  SO, yes, for them it's relatively free.  But most people pay an awful lot of taxes especially in Europe.

In any case, I thought I'd help out Britain and the EU at the same time.  I just received a pair of Josef Seibel slippers (I think they're German company), made in Albania, but bought from a British firm Charles Clinkard and shipped here to New Jersey.  The shipping from England was only about $18.  But I had a similar pair (made in Bulgaria) for about 5 years and they lasted and lasted, unlike America slippers.  Boris Johnson would be pleased that he's already getting trade with America even before negotiating with Trump. 

Glad I could help old chaps. 

[Alan Klein]

Thank you, Slobodan.

Rob, I've never done that thing before, but I think I'll follow your lead.

;-)

Yes.  Join Rob in the dark.  I guess you can't handle challenging debate either. 

[KLaban]

Yes.  Join Rob in the dark.  I guess you can't handle challenging debate either.

Worry not, I'll keep you around, for your divine light.

[Rob C]

I actually got a great deal when in Spain. A free appendectomy, and a week of recovery in a university hospital. And I wasn't even paying taxes in Spain, just renting an apartment there longer than six months (so, yes, the other guy paid for me). I've never denied that it is a wonderful feeling of not having to pay for a medical service.

And you know what, the same guy would gladly help you out again.

That's one of the differences between some Europeans and some denizens of darker England: they have a more generous spirit. It really is true that the desire for Brexit goes largely not understood here. They see the benefits in unity for both sides, and find it hard to put themseves into the same kind of über nationalistic frames of reference. Of course, they are just as fiercely nationalistic regarding football tournaments and cheer for their own side, but politically, they seem far more willling to accept that the broader, common good makes a lot of sense. Unfortunately, they do seem to be drifting into a dystopian form of national politics, ever smaller parties becoming involved with being the makers of kings.

[Alan Klein]

Worry not, I'll keep you around, for your divine light.

Great.  Looking forward to a lovely debate.

[Alan Klein]

I meant lively debate.  😚

[Rob C]

https://www.france24.com/en/culture/20200131-the-art-of-brexit-consequences-arts-culture-stephen-clarke-films-series-books-comedy-music

More about fake Brexit propaganda.

[Jeremy Roussak]

I wasn't discussing it with you, Frank .

You're discussing it with everyone on the forum, Alan. Private discussions take place elsewhere.

Nonsense.

I've told you before not to make pointless posts such as this. Final warning.

Jeremy

[Robert Roaldi]

There was a recent interesting episode of the NPR Fresh Air podcast, https://www.npr.org/programs/fresh-air/2020/02/11/804828527/fresh-air-for-feb-11-2020-trumps-2020-disinformation-campaign. It is an interview with a journalist about his article in the Atlantic about how Trump is setting up to use social media disinformation (aka propaganda) in the upcoming election.

There are some interesting comments about Facebook policies early on.

The examples of methods he gives are illuminating. In the last bit, he mentions one newish method that I had never heard of. Web sites are springing up that look like local newspapers, complete with some stories about local parking or what now, but are actually created and run by entities set up for the purpose. Political candidates can basically plant stories (for pay) onto these sites and unless you examine them carefully, they appear to be real local news and opinion pieces. It's part of a targeted campaign to go after local news outlets.

The podcast is about 45 min long.

[Alan Klein]

There was a recent interesting episode of the NPR Fresh Air podcast, https://www.npr.org/programs/fresh-air/2020/02/11/804828527/fresh-air-for-feb-11-2020-trumps-2020-disinformation-campaign. It is an interview with a journalist about his article in the Atlantic about how Trump is setting up to use social media disinformation (aka propaganda) in the upcoming election.

There are some interesting comments about Facebook policies early on.

The examples of methods he gives are illuminating. In the last bit, he mentions one newish method that I had never heard of. Web sites are springing up that look like local newspapers, complete with some stories about local parking or what now, but are actually created and run by entities set up for the purpose. Political candidates can basically plant stories (for pay) onto these sites and unless you examine them carefully, they appear to be real local news and opinion pieces. It's part of a targeted campaign to go after local news outlets.

The podcast is about 45 min long.

How do we know that there are no political plants here?