Accurate Specified Cropping in Lightroom Classic 9.1

[BobShaw]

Hi,
I am looking for an Aperture replacement and currently evaluating Lightroom after dismissing Photos.
One of my main uses for a database programme is rapidly cropping and exporting product shots at 2400 x 1600 pixels.
So I have settings for large, medium and small items for a client with the small being cropped straight to 2400 x1600 and the larger to multiples.
In Aperture I can specify the location and size of a crop in pixels using X, Y, Width and Height as shown in the photo.
I want to do this in Lightroom but have viewed the Lightroom Help and Tutorials and all they show is dragging over an area.
Am I missing something or is this seemingly simple feature missing, please?

[john beardsworth]

In the Crop tool, specify the ratio of the crop. See attached - to get the custom dialog, you click the dropdown where Original is shown in the screenshot.

Then in Export, you can export 3 (or whatever times) with the image size set to longest side 2400 pixels, then to 4800, then to 9600 or whatever the multiples. If you do this a lot, save each one as a preset and then in Export you can run multiple presets at once.

[BobShaw]

In the Crop tool, specify the ratio of the crop.

Thanks John.
I found out how to specify the ratio of the crop.
I am surprised though that you don't seem to be able to specify the size of the crop in pixels and eliminate an interpolation step.

[Jim Metzger]

"I found out how to specify the ratio of the crop.
I am surprised though that you don't seem to be able to specify the size of the crop in pixels and eliminate an interpolation step."

This is because Lightroom does not resize or alter the original image when you work on it in the program. Even when you "crop", the original image is not altered so you can reverse the process. All these changes are recorded in the XMP file adjacent to the original image in the folder where the originals reside.

The advantage is your changes in Lightroom only take up a very small amount of file space as the XMP "directions" are a very small file. If you want to see the effect of various changes in a file you can create "virtual copies" of the original and view them side-by-side. Even this is just another small XMP file that references back to the original.

Permanently resizing to specific pixel dimensions or permanently modifying the exposure only occurs after you "export" the image as a "new" file. The existing file is untouched.

[BobShaw]

"I found out how to specify the ratio of the crop.
I am surprised though that you don't seem to be able to specify the size of the crop in pixels and eliminate an interpolation step."

This is because Lightroom does not resize or alter the original image when you work on it in the program. Even when you "crop", the original image is not altered so you can reverse the process. All these changes are recorded in the XMP file adjacent to the original image in the folder where the originals reside.

Thanks Jim.
I am familiar with the advantages of non destructive editing and I do want to be able to re-crop at any time. I should however still be able to specify the size and location of the crop in pixels.
A typical reason for this is that I shoot say leather bags on a table. I can crop the first image to what I want and then lift and stamp that crop to all images. The problem is that each bag is in a slightly different location so I need to re-centre them. The customer wants the line of the table in exactly the same spot on each image, so I then need to drag the crop to centralise it but keep the start point say 400 pixels above the table edge. Easy in Aperture, just dial it in and press return. Looks like a no go in Lightroom though.

[john beardsworth]

I am surprised though that you don't seem to be able to specify the size of the crop in pixels and eliminate an interpolation step.

I guess I am too, but I can also see the flexibility of keeping physical output size separate from the aesthetic decision of cropping.

[jrp]

I may have got the wrong end of the stick but output dimensions are set in the Export dialogue. But

[BobShaw]

I may have got the wrong end of the stick but output dimensions are set in the Export dialogue.

Essentially, what I want is for the crop on each image in a set (of maybe 400) to be the same height in pixels above the baseline and each crop to be the same size. That is the Y value in the Aperture shot. If you copy and paste the adjustment you will get that, but each image then needs to be centred on the product, so I need to move the crop left or right but keep the up or down the same. Possible to do by eye but not as accurate as typing into a digital readout.

[fdisilvestro]

Essentially, what I want is for the crop on each image in a set (of maybe 400) to be the same height in pixels above the baseline and each crop to be the same size. That is the Y value in the Aperture shot. If you copy and paste the adjustment you will get that, but each image then needs to be centred on the product, so I need to move the crop left or right but keep the up or down the same. Possible to do by eye but not as accurate as typing into a digital readout.

The closest you can do is to use the arrows to move the crop marquee when in the cropping tool. If you click the left or right arrows, then the marquee stays at the same vertical position, size & aspect ratio.

Alt(Windows)+Click arrow for finer adjustments

[Rand47]

What if... you take image #1 and create the aspect ratio crop you want, and place it appropriately over the bag.  Then do a copy command w/ only “crop” and then paste / synch that to all the other files in the shoot.  You’d then quickly go through each image w/ crop activated and slide the bag portion of the images into the frame as you’d like.  As I understand it, they’re all reasonably close to where they should be.   Then, if you needed to make the framing tighter or looser, you can have the crop tool aspect ratio locked and just grab a corner and quickly resize / reframe the bag(s).  Then on export just set the long edge where you want it in pixels, and do a batch export.  Would that work?  It is “different” from your current workflow, but seems doable w/o too much fuss.  If you need multiple long-edge sizes, you can create export presets in the export dialog box to make the process easier.

Regards,
Rand

[BobShaw]

The closest you can do is to use the arrows to move the crop marquee when in the cropping tool. If you click the left or right arrows, then the marquee stays at the same vertical position, size & aspect ratio.

Alt(Windows)+Click arrow for finer adjustments

Thanks Francisco. I just tried that and does work. You use the right arrow and the crop goes left. Thanks Adobe.
But it is doable I think.

Thanks also Rand. I will try that also.

The thing is that the bags have to be the same size in appearance on the web site as the same size bags I shot six months ago. So having set up the camera the same distance with the same lens then the same pixel size does that. Maybe I can copy and paste from the previous set. I will experiment.

[smahn]

Just to say i have the same issue and am watching, so if you come up with a preferred solution, or workaround, please update the thread for my benefit. 

Cheers.

[Rand47]

Thanks Francisco. I just tried that and does work. You use the right arrow and the crop goes left. Thanks Adobe.
But it is doable I think.

Thanks also Rand. I will try that also.

The thing is that the bags have to be the same size in appearance on the web site as the same size bags I shot six months ago. So having set up the camera the same distance with the same lens then the same pixel size does that. Maybe I can copy and paste from the previous set. I will experiment.

Keep us posted on your progress.  I’d be interested to know if you find a workflow that does the job for you.

Rand

[Jeremy Roussak]

You use the right arrow and the crop goes left. Thanks Adobe.

You use the right arrow and the image goes right, behaviour which is entirely consistent with the way Lightroom's cropping UI works: you move the image, not the crop.

Jeremy

[kers]

I really dislike the croppingtool in both Photoshop and LR. If you miss the border you shift the image aaarchhh...

There are more tools i have a problem with... transformations... :
Do the transformation... try to redo it to set all sliders back to the basic setup -  and you are not coming back to the original situation...
The only way is to go back in history...
but mayby it is my limited knowledge of LR... ?

[BobShaw]

You use the right arrow and the image goes right, behaviour which is entirely consistent with the way Lightroom's cropping UI works: you move the image, not the crop.

This is the crop tool. If I use the left arrow, the crop goes right. Logical?  Not to me. (:-)
To me at least, if that is consistent with Lightroom then finding a way to continue using Aperture is the way to go.
Lightroom interface is pretty clumsy compared to Aperture.

[Whitney Dunn]

As a fellow refugee from Aperture, I’ve always found the Lightroom Classic interface clunky too. One thing you may want to check out is Lightroom - that is, the new, cloud-based version, née Lightroom CC. While still based on ACR, I find the interface owes more to Aperture than Lightroom desktop. It’s almost like the Lightroom team, in building the new interface, said ‘let’s not do that again’.

[john beardsworth]

I doubt very much that there's any influence. If there's any similarity between Cloudy Lightroom and Aperture, it's merely in the way it tries to hide your files away from you.

[BobShaw]

As a fellow refugee from Aperture, I’ve always found the Lightroom Classic interface clunky too. One thing you may want to check out is Lightroom - that is, the new, cloud-based version, née Lightroom CC. While still based on ACR, I find the interface owes more to Aperture than Lightroom desktop. It’s almost like the Lightroom team, in building the new interface, said ‘let’s not do that again’.

Thanks. I have 106,000 images occupying 4TB on a Thunderbolt drive. While my Internet speed is reasonable it would still be far too slow to have anything in the Cloud.
Plus I have all my photos, documents, and everything else in the one spot so that I can back them up easily. That works really well.
I will keep using Aperture for now and try a few other programmes.

[Whitney Dunn]

Ouch, 4TB makes Lightroom pretty much a non-starter. The monthly costs if you put that all on Adobe's servers would be exorbitant, and they don't (yet) offer any sort of tiered/cold storage option. You could, however, dabble with it and upload chunks of your catalog to see how it feels. Note while all files you want in Lightroom do have to be uploaded to the cloud, it keeps, or at least gives the option, local copies as well, so editing isn't normally dependent on tediously downloading photo after photo.

John, while I doubt the Lightroom team consciously decided 'hey, let's make an Aperture clone!', they were no doubt aware of, and influenced by, the design and evolution of Aperture, Photos, and Capture One. It's a small market, and tech companies have a long and proud history of cherry picking competitors' best features (or being 'inspired by' if you're feeling more charitable). What I meant is simply this: Lightroom -- and God, Adobe's made the naming confusing -- eschews two of Classic's fundamental concepts: the modular layout, and the bifurcated files/collections organization.