Hasselblad H4D-60 vs Hasselblad H5D-60

[The View]

I'm thinking of buying one or the other - full frame medium format.

I know the H5D has much better dust seals and a better screen on the back.

Autofocus and sensor - how big a difference would there be in quality between those two? Is it worth to pay more for the H5D?

Also, in regards to shooting, are there any differences? I shoot fashion for a living and landscape for myself - I guess both have the 1/800 second of flash sync time - but are there any features useful in a shoot the H5D has and the H4d has not?

[BobShaw]

Do you need a modular camera? If not then some of your dust problem goes away.
I suspect that you would be happy with either.
I was very happy with my H4D. They are both Firewire connection AFAIK. The H5D will take a film back if you are nostalgic.
There is an H4D-60 just advertised in the For Sale section, provided that you are the 5% of the world's population that it is available in. (Some people need to travel more.)
Really though, even the H5D is five years or so old. Big and cumbersome. I sold my H4D and bought an X1D and now regard the H series as steam engines. You also get 1/2000S flash sync.

[The View]

I like a good viewfinder and the digital viewfinder of the X1D has a lag that makes you miss shots with people. This is why I disregarded the X1D. MIrrorless isn't my thing.

Key question is sensor H4D bs H5D and the autofocus system. I use CF cards, so the slow firewire connection isn't a problem.

[pschefz]

I like a good viewfinder and the digital viewfinder of the X1D has a lag that makes you miss shots with people. This is why I disregarded the X1D. MIrrorless isn't my thing.

Key question is sensor H4D bs H5D and the autofocus system. I use CF cards, so the slow firewire connection isn't a problem.

i personally dont think either H4 or H5 are worth the hassle at this point and i definitely think the X1D would be a better system....yes there is a lag and it is not a fast camera but if you are worried about missing shots with people, you definitely should not get the H....the X1D might have lag and slow AF compared to other mirrorless systems, but it is definitely faster in any regard then any camera in the H system....optical finder or not....
the lag you get with the X1D has little to do with the finder, its a combination of slow AF and a general drawback of central shutter, both of which would be worse with H....
of course none of this means that one cant shoot people with either system but it would not be fair to the X1D to call the H faster in any possible way...
nikon d850 would be a very good optical finder camera with a great sensor, definitely comparable to older 40/50 mpix backs and much, much, much faster and a lot less lag....especially for people shooting...
i would also strongly recommend looking at latest gen mirrorless cameras, lots of people who used to be on the fence, latest tech is making the switch very easy...

[TonyVentourisPhotography]

Here is a link to an article.  #9 in the article is the difference between the h4d and h5d.  That might be helpful for you.

H5d article

I still use an H1 with a p45.  Yes, the H feels like a dinosaur.  The h4d never felt any different, so I stuck with my h1.  The H responds faster with film than it does with a sensor attached.  Or at least the phase sensor as opposed to their own.  Not scientific...but it just feels like it shoots more responsively when a film back is on it.  I wanted the X1D to work for me.  I spent time with one...but ultimately the touch interface drove me nuts.  I love mirrorless, but the x1d just didn’t work for me.  If the H works for you, it’s still a very decent system.  Big and heavy...but it still works just fine.  FireWire 400 to 800 to Thunderbolt, to thunderbolt 3 has become comical... but it still works. 

[WIFoto]

Hi
I have used an H4D a few times and own an H5D-40.
Overall the H5D feels like a big upgrade: The entire camera is well resolved as a unit, everything works so well.
Autofocus I find to be fast and accurate. True Focus works really well for me. The rear screen is a big jump over the 4 and actually useful.
Finally, the camera has a very solid build quality.
I shoot the same types of subjects as you do.
BTW I love the colors from my camera. yummm.
For me the H5D was worth the extra money, but you figured that out already. :-)
Cheers.

[Lust4Life]

(Transparancy:  I am the chap with a H4D60 for sale here on LL and eBay with just 597 clicks on it.  Additionally I normally do not "challenge" folks here on LL for reasons learned - emotion can rule rather than science in some of the folks here.)

A prior post suggest:
"i personally don't think either H4 or H5 are worth the hassle at this point and i definitely think the X1D would be a better system."

I'll have to "challenge" that sentence.

IF quality of the image file you get is what you are after, that position can not be supported in any way!

Let's look at just the sensor/digital array. 
SIZE of the wells matters along with the true bits of RGB the array can natively generate from the larger array well, and that is just science, not opinion.

X1DII:  43.8x32.9 generating 8272x6200 of 14 bit data at 50MP.
H4 or H5 60:  54x40 generating 8956x6708 of true 16 bit data at 60MP!!

Next, the H 60 series is a CCD array where the X is a CMOS (also the same sense as in the Fuji GFX 50S and the 100).
To my eye, and many scientifically based studies, there is a key difference between the two of these in the realm of image quality that is substantial to me, a landscape photographer.  (most landscape photographers are obsessed with DMAX and Detail, and as one I am guilty.)

So, I'll keep it simple: 
IF quality of the image is your mission that can be blow up beyond reason, the true "medium format" array (as in the H series or Phase, etc.) can't be matched.

Do you need that extra?

IF snapshots of people on the street, sports, animals on the run, etc are your "flavor", then stick with a the best Canon or Nikon, or what I have sitting on the left side of my desk right now, the GFX 50S (I also own the GFX 100 but admit it's not a "true MF" array in my opinion, but outstanding for what it is and at a price point no true MF array can touch.) 

Last:
The GFX 50S with a 23mm, 32-64 and 100-200 price out at $10,393.00 with a total weight of 8 pounds on your shoulder.

The X1DII with the identical array as the GFX 50S, a 21mm, 35-90 and 120 (it has no 110, no zooms and nothing longer than a 135) is at $19,170.00 and weighs in at 9.68 pounds on your shoulder.

Now, neither the GFX 50S, nor the X1DII will give me the image I want for my work as the H4D60 will give me!
My problem is age and health, The H4D60 with a 24mm, 35-90 and 50-110 would tip the scale just over 11 pounds and I can no longer handle that extra weight walking ANY distance.

[BobShaw]

The X1DII with the identical array as the GFX 50S, a 21mm, 35-90 and 120 (it has no 110, no zooms and nothing longer than a 135) is at $19,170.00 and weighs in at 9.68 pounds on your shoulder.

Now, neither the GFX 50S, nor the X1DII will give me the image I want for my work as the H4D60 will give me!
My problem is age and health, The H4D60 with a 24mm, 35-90 and 50-110 would tip the scale just over 11 pounds and I can no longer handle that extra weight walking ANY distance.

That claim surprised me for want of a better word. So I did some sums.
The H4D60 (1650g) with a 24mm (810g), 35-90 (1710g) and 50-110 (1650g) totals 6460g. We haven't used pounds for 40 years but Mr Google says that is 14.24 lbs.
The X1DII (725g) with a 21mm (600g) , 35-90 (35-70 will be 1115g)  and 120 (970g) is 3405g or 7.5 lbs or about half the weight.

You may argue that the 35-70 is not yet available so you need? the 35-90 but that only adds 300g plus the adaptor.
If weight is an issue then do away with zooms.

[Lust4Life]

Hi Bob,
I'm in the USA and ounces and pounds are still the norm, not the metric system even thought the government here has adopted it, the person on the street has not.  Go up to a gas station here and it's all in gallons, etc.

But let's put that aside and talk pounds.

Initially I got the weight of the various components from the Adorama and B&H sites.

I just now got the weights of all respective gear directly from the manufacturers web sites, rather than Adorama and B&H, and I found errors in weight and so updated my spreadsheet to manufactures weights. 

I got the cost of the respective gear from B&H and Adorama.  In all cases they both agreed on the day I gathered the info for my spreadsheet and are still valid as of today, 1-1-2020.

I've attached a PDF of the spreadsheet for your, and anyone else's review.
(To make the file readable when opened as a PDF you will have to Command + the file several times on a Mac.)
Please advise if any one finds any error that impacts the conclusions.

Now, as such the total weight of the GFX50S with 23mm, 32-64 zoom and the 100-200 zoom is 8 pounds.
The total weight of the X1DII with the X series 21mm, 35-75 and the 120mm is 8.58 pounds.

The same system cost for the Fuji GFX50S system is $10,393.00
The cost for the X1DII system is $15,398.00.

The X1DII system has a premium, with the same sensor as the GFX50S, of $5,005.00.

To take the evaluation just a wee bit further, the Fuji GFX 100 system with the same lenses as the GFX 50S has a total weight of 9.1 pounds and a total system cost of $15,398.00!!

I'll take the savings of the 50S or the same amount of cash as a X1DII and get a 100MP camera.

Now, my spreadsheet was created for MY evaluation of the cost and weight of several systems I was pondering. 

As said before, IF I could physically handle the weight of the H460 system, I would be going with it!
I can't. 

To those that still can, then to each his own.

[BobShaw]

I'm in the USA and ounces and pounds are still the norm, not the metric system even thought the government here has adopted it, the person on the street has not.  Go up to a gas station here and it's all in gallons, etc.

That's OK. You still have 1 and 2 cent coins and 7 digit phone numbers too. (:-)
Your gallons are also US Gallons, different to the rest.
Anyway, one of the main reasons for using the metric system is that it is more accurate and you make less mistakes.
If you use your figures the weights for the X1D it totals 3487.11 grams and that is 7.68 pounds. (unless you use different pounds also.)

This whole 14 bit sensor vs 16 bit output thing has been talked about a lot.
My understanding is that you have 50 million pixels, but you don't have 50M red pixels, 50M green pixels and 50M blue pixels, you have 50M total. So there is interpolation done to compare adjacent pixels and produce an output of 50M RGB. There has been a lot of testing of the Hasselblad raw file here and elsewhere and there is data in all 16 bits. So perhaps Hasselblad interpolates a different way which gives a 16 bit output. All that I know for sure is that the Hasselblad colour is outstanding.

[Lust4Life]

Decades back I actually worked a little bit with Hasselblad, and Nikon as well, on their first digital camera.
This was preceded by my digital work with Eikonix in the digital realm. 
Kodak bought out Eikonix in a failed hope to keep film alive.
Their management completely missed the boat on that one.

In 2004-05 Hassie hired a color specialist and he rebuilt the profiles for thier cameras that are still used today. Color neutral was the result.

I have seen no competitor that can beat their default camera profile, at least not to satisfy my eye.

[BobShaw]

In 2004-05 Hassie hired a color specialist and he rebuilt the profiles for thier cameras that are still used today. Color neutral was the result.

I have seen no competitor that can beat their default camera profile, at least not to satisfy my eye.

Interesting, That probably resulted in the 3FR raw file and HNCS in the H3D.

[The View]

Hi
I have used an H4D a few times and own an H5D-40.
Overall the H5D feels like a big upgrade: The entire camera is well resolved as a unit, everything works so well.
Autofocus I find to be fast and accurate. True Focus works really well for me. The rear screen is a big jump over the 4 and actually useful.
Finally, the camera has a very solid build quality.
I shoot the same types of subjects as you do.
BTW I love the colors from my camera. yummm.
For me the H5D was worth the extra money, but you figured that out already. :-)
Cheers.

Thanks for the input. I am currently hunting for a H5D-60 but only see them quite overpriced. I missed out on a good H6D-100c offered on the LL for sale forum.

[WIFoto]

You are very welcome.
Happy hunting!