Topic: Canon ipf8400 - Canvas Flaking (Read 1466 times)

Kanvas Keepsakes · « **on:** December 21, 2019, 06:31:52 pm »

Hey guys. Quick question. I need your expertise on an issue I'm having with my prints. I print on Lexjet's Sunset Select Matte Canvas. I got a roll about a week ago and started printing some prints I needed this week. Some of the prints were pretty large. 22x34 to be exact. After they all printed and I started to hang them in the spray room, I noticed a bunch of small spots with no ink as if the canvas was flaking off. I tried reprinting and same issue. I called Lexjet and they sent me a roll to get here on Friday (yesterday). I have orders to fill by Christmas. I printed a couple of prints and noticed flaking AGAIN. Not on all prints or at least I don't see them on all the prints. So my question is this. Is this something my printer can be doing? Or is it a definite paper issue? Anyone else run into this problem? Thanks in advanced guys. Please see the link of my Google Photos album for pics of the flaking.

Album of Flaking Prints

dgberg · « **Reply #1 on:** December 21, 2019, 06:45:49 pm »

I use the exact same canvas from Lexjet and have intermittent problems. If it is in a darker printed area it is pretty easy to touch up with my marker set. Sometimes I spray a coat of Glamor II then touch up so the marker does not bleed.
Should not be happening and if they replace it that is probably the best you can do.
My issue with this canvas is my Glamor II is not working very well. Breath on it and the ink can abrade off. Still not sure if it the canvas or the finish or a compatibility problem.
Prints are drying over night. The 2 coats I put on are drying between coats and still no durability. Tried just about everything this past year and still no improvement. When stretching with Gallery Stretcher machine almost every corner cracks when stretched and stapled.
We are looking to move to a pk instant dry canvas and then laminating with a vinyl laminate. We have already tested Seal's Print Guard Luster and Matte and have a roll of Drytac Satinex on the way.

We have used the Lexjet Matte canvas for about 7 years but it is probably time for a change. The price is right but too many issues.

Kanvas Keepsakes · « **Reply #2 on:** December 21, 2019, 06:48:35 pm »

Thank you, Dan. That makes me feel better knowing it isn't my printer causing the issue. I spray 3 coats of Sunset Satin with no dry time in between and I rarely have cracking issues. I let it dry overnight after the 3 coats. I've tried instant dry canvas from BC and it was a nightmare. Cracks on every fold.

dgberg · « **Reply #3 on:** December 21, 2019, 07:03:59 pm »

I know of the history of pk canvases cracking easily and am pretty sure vinyl laminating will solve the problem.
We are getting regular batches of 50 or more canvases at a time and waiting a day for ink to dry and another day for spray to dry isn't cutting it.
If we can print and in 3 or 4 hours laminate we can move to a 1 day print, laminate and mount.
We are also running laminating tests with our new Knight Maxi press that we purchased for metal prints.
Works pretty good so far. Anxious to try the perforated Drytac Satinex next week.
Lay a sheet over the canvas, cover with foam pad and press for 90 seconds. Take out of the press and wrap.

mearussi · « **Reply #4 on:** December 21, 2019, 10:19:31 pm »

Flaking happens, it's a flaw in the manufacturing process. I had some from Canson and they sent me a replacement that was fine. Also edge cracking and flaking aren't the same thing, though it might be more common on glossy than matte canvas. I was told that to minimize edge cracking gradually tighten your stretched canvas over several hours instead of all at once.

It might also vary with brand. I've never used Lexjet canvas but I had a lot of problem with edge cracking with Epson glossy but little if any with Canson's Museum ProCanvas Luster, nor do I recall having that problem with Lyve.

dgberg · « **Reply #5 on:** December 22, 2019, 09:25:59 am »

That was my fault from jumping from flaking to edge cracking. Canvas is our business and we fight both of them.
Would be nice to stretch them over several hours but no way when you are using a Gallery Stretcher machine doing about 4 in one hour.

mearussi · « **Reply #6 on:** December 22, 2019, 10:22:56 am »

Quote from: dgberg on December 22, 2019, 09:25:59 am

That was my fault from jumping from flaking to edge cracking. Canvas is our business and we fight both of them.
Would be nice to stretch them over several hours but no way when you are using a Gallery Stretcher machine doing about 4 in one hour.

True, then you have to be careful about canvas brand. Also, since you've done a lot more canvas than I have, have you noticed any difference between glossy vs matte in edge cracking?

dgberg · « **Reply #7 on:** December 22, 2019, 10:37:23 am »

We are just now testing satin instant dry. Our thought was to move to a solvent printer but because of the cost we have backed away from that. We absolutely must get to a one day process which is a quicker drying canvas (pk based) and replace spraying with vinyl lamination. Cost for materials is about double to move from sprayed matte canvas to laminated semi gloss canvas but we would be going from a three day process to one day. We should get that lost money on materials back plus some. The entire day could be production with very little time lost to drying.

dgberg · « **Reply #8 on:** December 22, 2019, 11:07:26 am »

Sorry to the op I got slightly sidetracked.
Lexjet is great to work with they will replace it.

mearussi · « **Reply #9 on:** December 22, 2019, 12:23:52 pm »

Quote from: dgberg on December 22, 2019, 10:37:23 am

We are just now testing satin instant dry. Our thought was to move to a solvent printer but because of the cost we have backed away from that. We absolutely must get to a one day process which is a quicker drying canvas (pk based) and replace spraying with vinyl lamination. Cost for materials is about double to move from sprayed matte canvas to laminated semi gloss canvas but we would be going from a three day process to one day. We should get that lost money on materials back plus some. The entire day could be production with very little time lost to drying.

So how do you get around the recommended 24 hour drying time to allow the water to evaporate?

dgberg · « **Reply #10 on:** December 22, 2019, 12:37:59 pm »

By moving from the matte canvas with mk ink which is what we use now but requires overnight drying. Then the spray requires another night of drying.
The pk satin and gloss instant dry canvases still require drying but only 3 or 4 hours. We are setting up two 1500 watt heaters with fans to reduce that time to an hour.
Print,1 hour to dry under fanned heat, laminate and stretch. Print to stretch completion in 2 hours instead of 2 days.
Will let you know how it goes.

mearussi · « **Reply #11 on:** December 22, 2019, 01:30:24 pm »

Quote from: dgberg on December 22, 2019, 12:37:59 pm

By moving from the matte canvas with mk ink which is what we use now but requires overnight drying. Then the spray requires another night of drying.
The pk satin and gloss instant dry canvases still require drying but only 3 or 4 hours. We are setting up two 1500 watt heaters with fans to reduce that time to an hour.
Print,1 hour to dry under fanned heat, laminate and stretch. Print to stretch completion in 2 hours instead of 2 days.
Will let you know how it goes.

A drying chamber makes sense, but what spray are you using that takes overnight to dry (the Eco Print Shield that I use only needs about 30 minutes before it can be stretched).

So if I use the Canson Museum ProCanvas satin, put it through your drying system and then sprayed Eco over it (three light coats recommended 15 minutes apart to allow for drying between coats) I could stretch in a little over two hours and wouldn't need to laminate.

dgberg · « **Reply #12 on:** December 22, 2019, 01:35:29 pm »

Glamor II 2 coats

mearussi · « **Reply #13 on:** December 22, 2019, 01:39:06 pm »

Quote from: dgberg on December 22, 2019, 01:35:29 pm

Glamor II 2 coats

That's why it's taking so long. Glamour II is the slowest drying varnish on the market. Why not use Timeless instead? It's practically instant drying.

mearussi · « **Reply #14 on:** December 22, 2019, 01:49:46 pm »

Are you also aware that according to Mark's tests Glamour II degrades display life by around 50% whereas Eco Print Shield, according to Wilhelm's tests, almost doubles it?

https://www.aardenburg-imaging.com/light-fade-test-results/
#298 vs #299

http://www.wilhelm-research.com/epson/WIR_Ep9600_2005_02_14.pdf (second page)

That's why I use Eco. It's the only water based spray proven to actually increase display life.

deanwork · « **Reply #15 on:** December 22, 2019, 06:38:57 pm »

Is the Timeless varnish a scam as well?

Quote from: mearussi on December 22, 2019, 01:49:46 pm

Are you also aware that according to Mark's tests Glamour II degrades display life by around 50% whereas Eco Print Shield, according to Wilhelm's tests, almost doubles it?

https://www.aardenburg-imaging.com/light-fade-test-results/
#298 vs #299

http://www.wilhelm-research.com/epson/WIR_Ep9600_2005_02_14.pdf (second page)

That's why I use Eco. It's the only water based spray proven to actually increase display life.

mearussi · « **Reply #16 on:** December 23, 2019, 12:40:05 am »

Quote from: deanwork on December 22, 2019, 06:38:57 pm

Is the Timeless varnish a scam as well?

I don't know as I've never seen a test of it. But as it's a completely different formulation from Glamour II, who knows. Mark is the only one really equipped to test it properly but he lacks the funding to do so.

ShirleyB · « **Reply #17 on:** December 24, 2019, 08:40:56 am »

I print a lot of canvases on a P8000 and varnish with Timeless. I have tested a lot and what works well for me is to use a Timeless matte on the first coat. The second coat I use Satin with a bit of matte mixed in( to try to decrease the bubbles) This has pretty well taken care of the cracking at the edges and ink wearing off on the corners. I use Epson signature matte. The Timeless matte has a bit of a rubber feel and that seems to make the difference for me.

Roscolo · « **Reply #18 on:** December 29, 2019, 06:37:01 pm »

Quote from: Kanvas Keepsakes on December 21, 2019, 06:31:52 pm

Hey guys. Quick question. I need your expertise on an issue I'm having with my prints. I print on Lexjet's Sunset Select Matte Canvas. I got a roll about a week ago and started printing some prints I needed this week. Some of the prints were pretty large. 22x34 to be exact. After they all printed and I started to hang them in the spray room, I noticed a bunch of small spots with no ink as if the canvas was flaking off. I tried reprinting and same issue. I called Lexjet and they sent me a roll to get here on Friday (yesterday). I have orders to fill by Christmas. I printed a couple of prints and noticed flaking AGAIN. Not on all prints or at least I don't see them on all the prints. So my question is this. Is this something my printer can be doing? Or is it a definite paper issue? Anyone else run into this problem? Thanks in advanced guys. Please see the link of my Google Photos album for pics of the flaking.

Album of Flaking Prints

I ordered some rolls of Sunset Select Matte Canvas recently, and the first roll I've used (44") from that order definitely has this flaking issue. I was able to touch up all the pre-Xmas orders I had, and then I switched to another company's product altogether for the time being. I will contact Lexjet and post my follow up experience here. Needs to be replaced, but definitely needs to be replaced with canvas from another batch.

Kanvas Keepsakes · « **Reply #19 on:** January 30, 2020, 01:46:35 am »

Hey Roscolo. What paper did you switch to after using SSMC canvas? I love SSMC because of the flexibility when I stretch over stretcher bars. No thick hard canvas that feels like cardboard like other vendors. Curious as to what you used that was comparable to SSMC?

Author Topic: Canon ipf8400 - Canvas Flaking (Read 1466 times)