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Author Topic: Schneider Apo digitar 43mm vs 47mm  (Read 315 times)

vsanci

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Schneider Apo digitar 43mm vs 47mm
« on: November 29, 2019, 08:01:31 pm »

Hi!

I'm quite new to the world of medium format cameras.
I'm wondering if there is any difference (apart from the focal length) between the Schneider 43 and 47mm (both apo-digitar).

I can not understand on the internet if one is any ''older than the other'' or not. The only thing i notice is that there is zero information on the web about the 43mm, while the 47mm appears to be more common.

Any advice?

Thank you :)
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Paul2660

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Re: Schneider Apo digitar 43mm vs 47mm
« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2019, 11:38:07 am »

Both in their time were excellent optics for a Digital Back.  As my memory recalls, the 43mm has a 110mm IC allowing for large shifts, with older 60MP and lower backs.  The 43mm greatly benefits from a Center Filter also made by Schneider and very hard to find now.

I had the 43mm for 4 years or so, used it on the P45+, IQ160, IQ250, and IQ260 with great success, shifting up to 18mm.  rise 10mm.  On the IQ180, shifting much past 6mm, showed considerable smearing as the lens could not resolve well on shifts, but on the IQ180 was still excellent on center.

I moved to the Rodenstock 40mm, which has a smaller IC of 90mm, but doesn't need a CF and can handle backs up to the IQ4 (shifting to about 12mm).  Rodenstock's 40mm has a lot of distortion, retrofocus style, so depending on your subject you have to watch for it.  Objects towards the edge elongate and flatten. 

The 43mm being a symmetrical design, has less distortion and was a great lens to shoot a pano with (multi-shot)

Paul C
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Paul Caldwell
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kinglang

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Re: Schneider Apo digitar 43mm vs 47mm
« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2019, 01:03:44 am »

Hi Paul,Does the 43 or 35 & 28 digitar lens a bit greyish with shifts over 15mm on 160 or 260 back?blue skies or green grass will get a bit greyish near the edges.
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Doug Peterson

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Re: Schneider Apo digitar 43mm vs 47mm
« Reply #3 on: December 01, 2019, 08:14:42 am »

The 43 is a significantly newer and better lens. There are two reasons you read less about it: fewer were made, and the issue of color cast was more pronounced in the era of the 43 than in the era of the 47.

Generally Id recommend the Rodenstock 40HR and 50HR over either of these lenses; just make sure to work with a dealer that is knowledgeable about these things and can share comparison raw files, and help you understand the pros and cons of each option.

Paul2660

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Re: Schneider Apo digitar 43mm vs 47mm
« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2019, 09:48:23 am »

The 43 is a significantly newer and better lens. There are two reasons you read less about it: fewer were made, and the issue of color cast was more pronounced in the era of the 43 than in the era of the 47.

Generally Id recommend the Rodenstock 40HR and 50HR over either of these lenses; just make sure to work with a dealer that is knowledgeable about these things and can share comparison raw files, and help you understand the pros and cons of each option.

The 43mm will show the effect you mention on extreme shifts.  In essence you are seeing a loss of saturation towards the edges of the shift.  This will be combined with the light fall (if a CF is not used).  Capture One to it's credit does a very good job of recovery (to my eyes) on shifts both the loss of saturation and correction of the color cast.  It does an OK job on noise recovery if the CF is not used, but on shifts the CF really is a must have. 

I left the 43mm for 2 reasons.

1.  It tended to show tiling both on center shots and shifts (tiling is where the readout lines on the Chip show up as faint demarcation lines and can be very difficult to correct.  C1 could not fix it with an LCC.  Issue did not happen all the time, and was much worse on my IQ260 than my IQ160.

2.  The need for the CF, which effectively reduces your shutter speed 2.0 stops, due to the light correction. 

Lens is light weight, compared to the Rodenstock 40mm and with the IQ4 would be a great lens to use on center shots and odds are you could get away with not using the CF.

I have never used the SK28mm, so I can't really comment on it's performance.

Paul C
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Paul Caldwell
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JoeKitchen

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Re: Schneider Apo digitar 43mm vs 47mm
« Reply #5 on: December 01, 2019, 12:04:26 pm »

Hi Paul,Does the 43 or 35 & 28 digitar lens a bit greyish with shifts over 15mm on 160 or 260 back?blue skies or green grass will get a bit greyish near the edges.

I own both the 35 and 28, and use them all of the time on my IQ260. 

I would say that the 35mm works well on the 260 in terms of handling color cast up to about 15mm of shift.  After that, you do start to get a decrease in the situation of the blue channel, which is much more intense in vertical orientation.  Cross talk does become a concern earlier on as well, especially when you have edges with white subjects, like a wall. 

The 28mm is another great lens, considering how wide it is and the fact that it is full symmetrical.  However, the issues above become much more apparent.  The blue channel starts to be effected from shift at 12mm and 8mm of shift depending if you are in a horizontal or vertical orientation.  With additional layers in post, you can shift the lens up to 14mm or 11mm (depending on orientation) and recover the blues.  However, after this, the blue channel is completely lost.  Cross talk can be seen without any shift on lighter white surfaces at the far edge of the image. 

Recently, I was able to test both lenses on the IQ3 100 and the IQ4 150.  On the IQ3 100, I would say neither lens is useable.  Maybe the 35mm would be okay without any shift, but the 28mm did not respond well at all. 

On the IQ4 150, both work better then they do on the IQ260.  The 35mm has almost no lens cast all the way to the edge of the IQ.  Tiling did appear at an extreme shift though.  Also, the light fall off correction in post without using the center filter produced significantly less noise in the corners, even with extreme shifts, then what I was expecting.  I would still plan on using the center filter, but having the ability to shoot without it, if need be, would be a nice plus. 

The 28mm on the IQ4 150 works very well too, however there was a decent amount of noticeable lens cast.  Still not as much as on the IQ260, but enough to see when the picture comes in.  On extreme shift, I would say the CF is needed and advisable to use without any shifts. 

I also did not notice any cross talk with either lens on the IQ4 150, but I also used them in horizontal orientation. 
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