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Author Topic: Capture One and scratch disks??  (Read 2947 times)

guido

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Capture One and scratch disks??
« on: November 24, 2019, 05:46:51 pm »

Another newbie question: How do you give C1 scratch disks? It seems to be doing all I/O to the working directory. I have multiple fast SSD devices I use with PS but C1 doesn't seem interested in knowing they are there... So it is grinding along quite slowly...

I looked at edit>preferences but didn't see anything...

win 10 if that matters.

Thanks!
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Ray Harrison

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Re: Capture One and scratch disks??
« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2019, 07:08:31 pm »

I'm not sure that C1 has the concept of scratch disks, specifically (others can chime in). Let us know your setup and maybe describe further the problem you're trying to solve. Is it that you have a slow disk where your raw images are (and where your catalog or session db sits) and the reads/writes to that disk are slow and that in the PS world you can delegate some of the disk I/o off to faster drives?
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guido

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Re: Capture One and scratch disks??
« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2019, 09:53:51 pm »

I have multiple fast SSD devices for os and scratch devices and use a large spinning RAID 1 pair for local raw /working storage. PS uses this set up to run really fast and no noticeable latency when zooming or scrolling or processing 50MP raws.

C1 is lagging badly and doesn't look to be able to take advantage of my configuration. I'd hate to think how it would run if I had 150mp Phase raws...
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Ray Harrison

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Re: Capture One and scratch disks??
« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2019, 10:32:54 pm »

Yes, Photoshop is an entirely different beast. I don’t notice a real lag using C1 with 50mp or 100mp files, but I don’t use spinning disks these days either for my main work drives.

I’ll have to leave you in the hands of anyone who has a similar config.
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Aram Hăvărneanu

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Re: Capture One and scratch disks??
« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2019, 04:28:53 am »

I use sessions and work on a local fast SSD drive. Once I am finished with the session, I move the whole thing over the network to slower (but still not slow) permanent storage.
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JaapD

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Re: Capture One and scratch disks??
« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2019, 06:29:30 am »

I believe C1 leaves the scratch disk functionality fully up to the Operating System and its dynamic memory settings. I have no info on Unix/Mac OS but in Windows you’re able to define this in size and in allocation to a specific disk.

The implementation in C1 seems not very smart imho. A good example of this is that while zooming in at 100% the image content that gets shifted in from outside on the screen needs to be recalculated each and every time again. There is no caching or buffering of previously calculated image content.

Regards,
Jaap.


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guido

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Re: Capture One and scratch disks??
« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2019, 07:02:13 am »

Hmmm... 32 GB RAM and SSD disk for OS paging, really fast video card with 8GB. Running like a real dog. Might be a premature exit on the evaluation process. The advanced color editor is nice but not at this speed...

Thanks for peoples thoughts...
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Ray Harrison

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Re: Capture One and scratch disks??
« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2019, 08:44:41 am »

Yes, again the two applications are completely different beasts. There's no concept at all of scratch disks that I am aware of in Capture One. I also wouldn't advocate Capture One as a replacement for Photoshop and that to do a true evaluation, it should probably be set up based on phase one recommendations to get the best performance out of it such as making sure that hardware acceleration is on and working, etc. Personally, I find it extremely fast, at least as fast (usually faster) than Light Room, for example. LR is probably the application to compare C1 to. I've used it on everything from 12MP to 100MP files.

All that said, it's really down to personal preference. If you've been in Photoshop-land for years, the two systems are different ways of working with images, with pluses and minuses and making a switch may or may not be worth the brain damage. They're both great software applications that have a lot of users who love them. I personally use them both. It's hard to say what with your configuration is causing your issues and may be worth reaching out to phase one directly if you find doing something like that worth your time.
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guido

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Re: Capture One and scratch disks??
« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2019, 09:18:20 am »

I'm not a fan of LR, instead preferring to use Bridge>ACR>PS as my preferred workflow. I've been impressed by what Joe Cornish is showing in C1 so i thought it was worth a look. I'll check in with C1 tech support before throwing in the towel...
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Ray Harrison

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Re: Capture One and scratch disks??
« Reply #9 on: November 25, 2019, 11:31:58 am »

It’s definitely an impressive bit of kit. For me, C1+occasional PS is ideal. Good luck in pushing past the issues you’re facing. Other resources you can reach out to would include the medium format forum over at getdpi - a lot of those folks use C1 heavily pushing around 100 and 150MP files -  and maybe photopxl.
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IanSeward

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Re: Capture One and scratch disks??
« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2019, 02:45:52 pm »

Hmmm... 32 GB RAM and SSD disk for OS paging, really fast video card with 8GB. Running like a real dog. Might be a premature exit on the evaluation process. The advanced color editor is nice but not at this speed...

Thanks for peoples thoughts...

Are you running a session or catalogue?

What kind of disk is the session or catalogue on?  If it is a NAS then you will get poor performance.

I have a 6 year old desktop i7 3820, Nvidia 1060 (6Gb), 16Gb ram, SSD for the OS and a SSD for this current years work, but even with the session on a spinner I find C1 Pro is very fast.

More details on your system might help?

Ian
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faberryman

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Re: Capture One and scratch disks??
« Reply #11 on: November 25, 2019, 02:56:25 pm »

Benchmarks aside, just how fast does editing need to be? I am using LR/PS on a mid-2011 MacMini and it works just fine.
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guido

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Re: Capture One and scratch disks??
« Reply #12 on: November 25, 2019, 05:29:08 pm »

It is so slow that I make a small adjustment, say a saturation tweek in the advanced color editor, and it grinds for over 10 seconds till the effect is displayed. It makes fine adjustments impossible.
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guido

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Re: Capture One and scratch disks??
« Reply #13 on: November 25, 2019, 05:35:20 pm »

Are you running a session or catalogue?

What kind of disk is the session or catalogue on?  If it is a NAS then you will get poor performance.

I have a 6 year old desktop i7 3820, Nvidia 1060 (6Gb), 16Gb ram, SSD for the OS and a SSD for this current years work, but even with the session on a spinner I find C1 Pro is very fast.

More details on your system might help?

Ian

Session. The working drive is a local Raid 1 pair of 10TB spinning disks. I7 9700.
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Aram Hăvărneanu

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Re: Capture One and scratch disks??
« Reply #14 on: November 25, 2019, 06:13:00 pm »

Why don't you move the session on a SSD? You can move it back to your bigger drives once you are (more or less) done processing. That's one of the advantages of sessions, they are self-contained.
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guido

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Re: Capture One and scratch disks??
« Reply #15 on: November 25, 2019, 09:01:20 pm »

Seems a rather gross hack to copy files around just to make it run adequately. Pretty significant design flaw.
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fdisilvestro

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Re: Capture One and scratch disks??
« Reply #16 on: November 25, 2019, 09:34:31 pm »

It is actually a common strategy, work with data in fast media (usually small & expensive) and then move it to slower, cheaper storage.

Ray Harrison

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Re: Capture One and scratch disks??
« Reply #17 on: November 25, 2019, 11:08:25 pm »

Seems a rather gross hack to copy files around just to make it run adequately. Pretty significant design flaw.

I’ve not heard it described before that following a best practice of using a fast disk to do work is a gross hack or a design flaw  :) . I do get though that you'd want it to work well out of the box, so don't get me wrong. At least as a data point, set up a session on one of your SSDs to see if there’s a difference. Since the concept of scratch disk doesn't really exist in C1, it's not going to take advantage of such a concept in the way that something like Photoshop will (if at all). C1 cares a lot about hardware acceleration and memory.

At least one thing that has seemed to work for some folks is to reinstall / upgrade your graphics card drivers. That will also have a benefit of having Capture One force a re-evaluation / rebuild of the graphics acceleration piece. My guess is that something is amiss somewhere in that space anyway (acceleration) and that's a good place to start.  Once that occurs, make sure that under "Hardware Acceleration (Use OpenCL for)", the application indicates "Capture One is using hardware acceleration."
« Last Edit: November 26, 2019, 07:43:59 am by Ray Harrison »
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DP

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Re: Capture One and scratch disks??
« Reply #18 on: November 28, 2019, 01:07:07 am »

I hate both catalogs and sessions concepts and prefer to run C1 for individual files from raw browser like FRV and keep C1 sidecars in the same catalog as my raw files (not in any stupid subfolders) -- just like you'd use ACR to give you an idea

So I wrote a batch file that does for me the following (it is invoked from FRV to run C1)

1) when it runs the first time it copies blank template session from SSD to RAM drive (RAM disk is a magnitude faster than even several NVMe drives in RAID 0 configuration)

2) then it uses "mklink" to manipulate files & catalogs so that output from C1 (TIFF passed to PS) goes to RAM disk, useful files like .cos and masks are kept in the same folder as raw files, useless files like .cot, .cop are left on my RAM disk - where they are gone every reboot and never ever pollute my storage


and as additional benefit C1 does not spend time building any stupid previews for all raw files in the folder :-) as when it is invoked it sees just one new raw file and not the whole set of them.
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