Something to think about.....

[degrub]

Very well written clearly stated essay on the differences between China and the Western world and the future implications
https://www.extremetech.com/internet/299996-blizzard-hearthstone-nba-capitalism-democracy-china-authoritarianism

[Alan Klein]

Very well written clearly stated essay on the differences between China and the Western world and the future implications
https://www.extremetech.com/internet/299996-blizzard-hearthstone-nba-capitalism-democracy-china-authoritarianism

The article explains how capitalism and free markets have not open up China to liberal thought, free speech and democracy and that their economic power is undermining our relations with it so we kowtow to it.  It didn't mention that it's also forcing whole countries to kowtow as well.

What's even more interesting is that it never mentions Trump.  Of all the people in America, he is the one challenging China's self centered fascist operations.  His tariffs and demands for stopping intellectual property theft are challenging China's normal ways of doing things.  They have to become part of the normal world's way of respecting property and trade.  That will filter down to their people and up to the leaders that there is a way of doing things that respects other countries and their own people as well.  No one else is challenging China in the world expect Trump. Yet all we hear is negatives about his efforts.  All his haters don;t want to examine the long-term advantages of freedom if CHina changes its way starting with fair trade practices. 

[Alan Klein]

I don't think any of the Democrats running for president have the guts to face China like Trump does. 

[Robert Roaldi]

I don't think any of the Democrats running for president have the guts to face China like Trump does.

Like he faced down North Korea?

Anyway, it's not clear to me how becoming protectionist accomplishes that.

But then it's not clear to me what the problem was in the first place that you think needed fixing by starting trade wars.

[JoeKitchen]

The recent events with the NBA is both sad and disgusting. 

Sad that yet another American corporation kowtows to China purely for money, and disgusting given how quick the NBA is to support progressive causes ... unless you can buy their silence.  Such hypocrites. 

It bemuses me that both the sweet smell of money on the right and the false premise of multiculturalism on the left has morphed us into cowards unable to defend the ideals of Western culture. 

[Chris Kern]

. . . it's not clear to me what the problem was in the first place that you think needed fixing by starting trade wars.

Almost all other major industrial countries have serious and quite legitimate concerns about the Chinese government's trade policies and the sensible way to deal with them would have been to ratify the Trans-Pacific Partnership agreement.  Unfortunately, in the United States first the Democrats deserted it and then President Trump decided to withdraw U.S. participation—in his case solely, it seems, because it was negotiated by the Obama Administration since Trump and the congressional Republicans didn't face the constituency pressures that caused the Democrats to go limp.  So now we have reciprocal tariffs instead, which have the effect of increasing business costs and creating weaker economic growth in all the affected economies, and which so far have done nothing to persuade the Chinese government to accede to international norms.

[Robert Roaldi]

Almost all other major industrial countries have serious and quite legitimate concerns about the Chinese government's trade policies and the sensible way to deal with them would have been to ratify the Trans-Pacific Partnership agreement.  Unfortunately, in the United States first the Democrats deserted it and then President Trump decided to withdraw U.S. participation—in his case solely, it seems, because it was negotiated by the Obama Administration since Trump and the congressional Republicans didn't face the constituency pressures that caused the Democrats to go limp.  So now we have reciprocal tariffs instead, which have the effect of increasing business costs and creating weaker economic growth in all the affected economies, and which so far have done nothing to persuade the Chinese government to accede to international norms.

Yes, I was aware of things like intellectual property problems but I don't remember that the Trump administration used those problems as reasons for the imposition of tariffs. But to be honest I didn't read everything on the topic, and even if I had I might not remember. Too much going on at the same time.

[Alan Klein]

Chris, the Chinese are being hurt by the tariffs more than America is.  Of course, the anti-Trump press here only writes about Americans suffering.  The truth is many supply chains from China to America have already shifted to other countries.  More will follow.  China is feeling the loses and wants to make a deal.  Just on their terms.  They and we were close to a deal a few months ago.  But they reneged on all the important points including theft of intellectual property that they agreed to during negotiations.  Trump is sticking his neck out because if the economy tanks, he will get blamed and not be re-elected.  It would have been easier for him to ignore China and look the other way like the NBA is doing.  But if we can get a deal, it would benefit the whole world, not just the US.  Of course the press will say it wasn't good enough.  But we'll leave it to future historians to decide those things. 

Regarding the TPP, the Chinese pay no attention to deals that have no penalties.  They joined Paris, but don't have to do anything about CO2 until 2030.  Does anyone think they will do anything then if it hurts their economy?  They joined the WTO and other world groups and ignored a unanimous ruling regarding their occupation of islands in the South China Sea that don't belong to them.  They only respond to pressure and pain.  Trump is applying that.  Hopefully it will work.  Of course, China may be waiting for Trump to leave office early or even in 2020.  So all the impeachment talk isn't strengthening our hand any. 

[Alan Klein]

Yes, I was aware of things like intellectual property problems but I don't remember that the Trump administration used those problems as reasons for the imposition of tariffs. But to be honest I didn't read everything on the topic, and even if I had I might not remember. Too much going on at the same time.

Robert, Trump's concern of Chinese theft of intellectual property is a major component of his starting tariffs.  It's been estimated that it's costing America $400-500 billion dollars every year because of it.  Canadian total exports last year were $360 billion by comparison. Other trade restrictions and currency manipulation are important as well.    You know they're stealing your stuff too. 

[JoeKitchen]

For a comedic and pretty serious evidence on why China's socialism is just as screwed up as all the rest, watch the Last Week Tonight on the one child policy. 

Wow, talk about some pretty serious unintended consequences.  Maybe China is really on the down turn.