1-2 year old Timeless Matte Varnish still usable?

[Ryan Mack]

I don't remember when I last bought the varnish but since my canvas-capable printer is only 2 years old it must be less than that. If I give a 2 year old unopened bottle of timeless matte a good shake do you think it will still be usable? Thanks, Ryan

[mearussi]

According to BC if it's older than one year you're taking a chance. But you can always try it on a test canvas print and see what happens.

[mcbroomf]

I would stir, not shake, to avoid bubbles

[D Fuller]

Well, it’s called Timeless Matte Varnish...

 

[Garnick]

Since mid 2003 when I started printing on canvas I have always used Eco Print Shield to protect the surface and to some degree enhance the look of the image.  Therefore I have no experience with the Timeless coating and likely never will, since EPS has always done the job with no issues.  The only part of this thread that I can refer to is EPS, which has no expiry date.  I use two coats of Satin and a final coat of Satin + Gloss 50/50, which adds just enough sheen to pick up the deeper blacks and overall colour.  I suppose the only way you can perhaps find a definitive answer to your question is to do your own tests, as has been suggested.  Set aside some of the Timeless coating for more than one year and then test.

Also, I totally agree -- Stir, No Shaking.   

 

[stockjock]

Since mid 2003 when I started printing on canvas I have always used Eco Print Shield to protect the surface and to some degree enhance the look of the image.  Therefore I have no experience with the Timeless coating and likely never will, since EPS has always done the job with no issues.  The only part of this thread that I can refer to is EPS, which has no expiry date.  I use two coats of Satin and a final coat of Satin + Gloss 50/50, which adds just enough sheen to pick up the deeper blacks and overall colour.  I suppose the only way you can perhaps find a definitive answer to your question is to do your own tests, as has been suggested.  Set aside some of the Timeless coating for more than one year and then test.

Also, I totally agree -- Stir, No Shaking.   

I realize this is off topic but I've always read that you are supposed to put gloss coats of these products down first and then choose the sheen you want for the final coat.  I believe the reasoning was that using matte coats first reduced the dmax.  Did you test whether gloss/satin undercoats made a difference?

[Ryan Mack]

I would stir, not shake, to avoid bubbles

Does it really matter with varnish? I mean you are either rolling it on with a squishy air filled roller or spraying it on through a high pressure air gun. Wouldn’t both of those also introduce a ton of air so it must be capable of releasing bubbles as it dries?

[mearussi]

Does it really matter with varnish? I mean you are either rolling it on with a squishy air filled roller or spraying it on through a high pressure air gun. Wouldn’t both of those also introduce a ton of air so it must be capable of releasing bubbles as it dries?

Timeless dries very fast (within 5-10 minutes) so there's little time for air bubbles to dissipate, and yes you can get little tiny air bubble craters in it if you're not careful (and streaks). For this reason I don't use it anymore, but to be fair it was designed for HVLP production work not roller application.

For roller application Eco Print Shield is much better.

[Ryan Mack]

I’ll give Eco Print Shield a try when I finish my supply of timeless. I’ve been disappointed by the loss of color and Dmax using Timeless matte. Any hints on how to mitigate that? Perhaps it just doesn’t work well with the canvas I’m using or I need to apply less somehow.

[mearussi]

I’ll give Eco Print Shield a try when I finish my supply of timeless. I’ve been disappointed by the loss of color and Dmax using Timeless matte. Any hints on how to mitigate that? Perhaps it just doesn’t work well with the canvas I’m using or I need to apply less somehow.

Matte is made by incorporating little pieces of mica (or something similar) into their glossy varnish. As such it lowers dmax and color saturation by its nature, there's no getting around that. I used it once and never again and now just use glossy (Eco Print Shield). You can also dilute the Timeless matte with Timeless glossy until you get the look you prefer (I believe BC recommends 4 parts glossy to one part matte for a luster finish).

[Garnick]

I realize this is off topic but I've always read that you are supposed to put gloss coats of these products down first and then choose the sheen you want for the final coat.  I believe the reasoning was that using matte coats first reduced the dmax.  Did you test whether gloss/satin undercoats made a difference?

Yes, I'm quite aware of the idea of the Gloss first coat scenario and the reasoning behind it.  There is some degree of truth concerning that method, but my tests have not shown enough of a difference to convince me that this is necessarily the best procedure.  Also, if you reread my first reply you'll notice that nowhere did I mention using a matte coating, because I don't.  The only time I've used the matte coating was for a particular customer who wanted absolutely no sheen on her canvases.  In my opinion those canvases looked rather dead, but the customer got what she wanted and was very pleased with the final product.

EDIT:  One caveat.  If you are rolling Eco Print Shield on an image with a lot of deep black you will likely see streaks once the first coating has dried.  However, despair not!  Once the second coat has been applied those streaks will disappear.  I've also seen videos that state one must never work the coating.  By that I mean once a coating is laid down one should not use the roller over the coating again to perhaps get rid of bubbles etc.  In my experience there is absolutely no reason not to work the coating if one deems it necessary, but of course by no means over do it.  After many years of rolling EPS on canvases I have learned that some of the "rules" can be broken with no adverse results.
   

[Ryan Mack]

Well just for the heck of it I went ahead and ordered a hvlp sprayer and some tarps to transform my garage into a spray booth. We’ll see how that goes :-)

[Terry_Kennedy]

Well just for the heck of it I went ahead and ordered a hvlp sprayer and some tarps to transform my garage into a spray booth. We’ll see how that goes :-)

I had to coat some vinyl maps with Marabu ClearShield Classic Lite. That stuff gets all over everything - all of the white "dust" in this picture is Marabu that didn't get onto the 2 sheets you can see on the blue tarp on the floor. I can see why they say to wear a respirator!