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Author Topic: Impeaching Donald Trump  (Read 339464 times)

LesPalenik

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #3760 on: February 02, 2020, 02:40:42 pm »

I do not disagree.
That's why we elected the ugliest, most shameless, and nastiest guy to win that game ;)

Well, you can keep both of them. I'm glad we don't have to put up with them.
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PeterAit

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #3761 on: February 02, 2020, 05:23:33 pm »

No, Les, just no. The quote is deliberately taken out of context.

Please provide the context.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #3762 on: February 02, 2020, 06:51:45 pm »

Fear of 78 year-old Sanders winning the nomination and then losing to Trump awakens another old Democrat fart from his nap.  John Kerry, who at 77, is thinking about running again.  Hey I just turned 75 and rarin' to go too.  Maybe I should run.  The Dems need some young blood in there.  Russ, you up to it?  We can run together.
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/481116-john-kerry-overheard-discussing-potential-2020-bid-amid-concerns-over


 

RSL

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #3763 on: February 02, 2020, 07:34:34 pm »

Even if you don't run you have a better chance than Sanders of becoming President.
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #3764 on: February 02, 2020, 07:57:40 pm »

Well certainly innocent of any crime.  He was not even charged with one.  Insofar as the actual two articles, they just do not rise to the level of impeachment regardless, IMO.

And it has been demonstrated again and again that there is no need to have committed a penal crime to be impeached.

Here is Dershowitz himself explaining it clearly in 1998: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpXr-sfwaDk  ;D ;D ;D

Linking the need for a crime to impeachment is performing a clear an unacceptable modification of the spirit of the constitution.

If that were not the case the Republicans would not have wasted a huge amount of energy during 2 months to demonstrate to the world that there was no quid pro quo.

Once they realized that the quid pro quo had obviously happened and that there was going to be first hand testimonies to proof it, they changed their story completely, claiming that the quid pro quo was not an issue.

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: February 02, 2020, 10:28:42 pm by BernardLanguillier »
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #3765 on: February 02, 2020, 07:59:17 pm »

"witnesses" not "Additional wittnesses"

Which is only relevant for you in your attempt to desguise the reality that the Senate violated the will of the people they are supposed to be representing.

The reality is that the people who answered this question were hoping to see the Senate have witnesses testify, regardless of whether there were already witnesses heard from the congress.

So "witnesses" always meant "additional witnesses". That's the default understanding of the meaning of the word in the context and what common sense dictates.

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: February 02, 2020, 08:18:23 pm by BernardLanguillier »
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #3766 on: February 02, 2020, 08:14:39 pm »

Les, He made his point inarticulately and expanded it afterwards.  What he meant and as I stated myself, was that a president often makes public policy with one eye on an election.  He'll ignore what's good for the country by deciding what's good for his re-election. Not only is that legal.  It's what they should do in many cases.  In a democracy, leaders are elected.  They respond to their voters.  When Obama pulled troops out of Iraq in 2011 against his military advisors advice that he would create a vacuum for ISIS, he did it anyway.  Why?  Because he was soon to run for re-election and wanted his voters to know he keeps his word.  So public policy is often decided by what leaders think their voters want from them.  That's the point Dershowitz was making.

Taking a decision that is against the interest of the country but in favor of a re-election is fine as long as the decision is legal.

The fact that such an incompatibility of interest isn't in itself illegal is totally irrelevant to the point being discussed.

The nature of the decison has to be measured against the law and the constitution, and in the case of Trump most legal experts assess the usage of a quid pro quo with a foreign leader as being unconstitutional.

But again, we see that the Republican camp is abusing the usage of twisted logic to manipulate the opinion.

Fortunately, the people aren't stupid and every additional layer of manipulation is simply reducing the credibility of the Republican camp.

Everybody understands that there is no need to twist logic when you have a clear and sound case.

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: February 02, 2020, 08:19:23 pm by BernardLanguillier »
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kers

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #3767 on: February 02, 2020, 09:31:06 pm »

He just abused his presidential power to try to falsely and illegally influence the outcome of the next election.
Just but different as he did before with his previous election. (Cambrige Analytica & more)
Thats all.

But who cares if it is one of yours... The good guys
Constitution? what constitution? spirit of...

a fair election system is the base of all
« Last Edit: February 02, 2020, 09:35:57 pm by kers »
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LesPalenik

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #3768 on: February 02, 2020, 10:47:54 pm »

Headline in today's German Spiegel:

Quote
Der Impeachment-Prozess gegen Donald Trump ist faktisch am Ende. Die republikanische Partei ist es auch.

Translation: The impeachment process against Donald Trump is effectively finished. The Republican Party, too.
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JoeKitchen

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #3769 on: February 02, 2020, 10:53:06 pm »

Headline in today's German Spiegel:

Translation: The impeachment process against Donald Trump is effectively finished. The Republican Party, too.

 ;D ;D ;D

Foreign press, they are always the barameter of USA sentiment. 
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #3770 on: February 02, 2020, 11:11:41 pm »

;D ;D ;D

Foreign press, they are always the barameter of USA sentiment.

They are probably much closer than Fox at least.

Is the North Korean official TV channel objective about what is happening in North Korea? Isn’t the Spiegel more objective in their analysis?

I don’t see more criticism on Fox about Trump than I see in North Korean official media. It’s exactly the same level of total support whatever.

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: February 02, 2020, 11:15:58 pm by BernardLanguillier »
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LesPalenik

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #3771 on: February 02, 2020, 11:24:30 pm »

Foreign press, they are always the barameter of USA sentiment.

Sometimes, the cracks can be detected earlier from the outside.

However, Germany's governing party is not immune to the loss of popularity. Merkel's CDU/CSU party lost the majority in their last election, while the fringe parties on both ends of spectrum picked up new voters.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2020, 11:53:59 pm by LesPalenik »
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #3772 on: February 03, 2020, 01:40:00 am »

Bernard, you are (almost) endearingLy cute in your unwavering belief that you are right, not the 63 million Americans, and that your opinion, gathered by reading information from half the world across, is the truth. It is like claiming to be a neurosurgeon after reading a few textbooks.

Rob C

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #3773 on: February 03, 2020, 04:53:51 am »

Bernard, you are (almost) endearingLy cute in your unwavering belief that you are right, not the 63 million Americans, and that your opinion, gathered by reading information from half the world across, is the truth. It is like claiming to be a neurosurgeon after reading a few textbooks.


But at least he can read the textbooks, and probably without moving his lips or shooting anyone...

;-)

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #3774 on: February 03, 2020, 05:31:54 am »


... read the textbooks, and probably without moving his lips...

Hmmm... when did you have a chance to observe me!?

JoeKitchen

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #3775 on: February 03, 2020, 07:35:08 am »

Panic is really starting to set in. 

POLITICO Playbook: What Democrats won’t say out loud

"... the possibility of Bernie Sanders taking down the Democratic Party — down whole."  John Kerry was overheard saying this weekend. 

But don't worry, Der Spiegel already has it figured out. 
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PeterAit

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #3776 on: February 03, 2020, 10:27:52 am »

Taking a decision that is against the interest of the country but in favor of a re-election is fine as long as the decision is legal.

The fact that such an incompatibility of interest isn't in itself illegal is totally irrelevant to the point being discussed.


You are exactly right. Presidents are *supposed* to do things that benefit the country, and that *should* improve their reelection chances. But Trump's actions were solely for his own personal benefit and not for the country's. The Ukrainian prosecutor was fired because he *was not* investigating corruption, not because he was looking into Burisma. And this guy's ouster had been requested by several international organizations as well as anti-corruption activists within Ukraine. This is all well-established but those who live in their tidy little Fox-Limbaugh-Hannity-Breitbart bubble are impervious to such information.
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PeterAit

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #3777 on: February 03, 2020, 10:29:20 am »

Even if you don't run you have a better chance than Sanders of becoming President.

I am surprised that you and Alan have not been appointed to Trump's cabinet.
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #3778 on: February 03, 2020, 11:11:15 am »

Yesterday was Groundhog Day:

PeterAit

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #3779 on: February 03, 2020, 11:14:32 am »

The House was the outfit that should have called the witnesses they wanted to hear from. Sure, they wanted to call close Trump advisers, and the administration declined to send them, naturally. The President has every right to confidentiality when it comes to his advisers. If the House didn't like the result they could have taken the situation to the courts. But that wasn't part of their playbook. For one thing, the Democrats want their people to be able to get out there and campaign (ridiculous as their campaigns have been). In addition, the House refused to call witnesses the Republicans wanted to hear from, and refused to allow Republicans to cross-examine the Democrat fabricators. There was plenty of dereliction of duty, Bart, but it wasn't the Senate that was derelict.


Absolutely and completely wrong. Witnesses are called DURING THE TRIAL--i.e., the Senate proceedings, so the jury (the senators) can hear the evidence and make up their minds. But the GOP senators (all but two) fell into their goose-stepping line behind Trump and McConnell and said "no." We all knew from day 1 that the Senate would not remove Trump, so the goal is to get all the evidence out there for the public to evaluate. And the GOP has been saying all along that we should let the people decide at the election, but then they do their best to keep information from the voters. Gee, why do you think?
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