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Author Topic: Impeaching Donald Trump  (Read 340765 times)

LesPalenik

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #3680 on: February 01, 2020, 11:13:14 am »

Yes, the HOUSE shoud be ashamed of themselves for failing to even TRY to get those first hand witnesses like Bolton.    It does indeed set a dangerous precedent.

It's a sorry situation. One party is incompetent and the other deceptive. As Alan says, it's bad for the country.
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Craig Lamson

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #3681 on: February 01, 2020, 11:16:35 am »

I think the problem with high medical costs are real.  Passing the cost to the government, which is effectively us, won't solve the problem because the government is broke too with a trillion dollar deficit this year. adding to the already 23+ trillion in debt.   Also, government services are never as good as private.  It's anticipated that our deficit will be a trillion a year for years going forward.  It's unsustainable.  No one wants to talk about cutting services, defense, and the myriad other programs the government underwrites.  At some point the whole thing is going to fall down. We're just kidding ourselves.

Medical costs are crazy and the payment schemce are just as crazy.  One rate fro insurance companies, one - higher - rate for cash payments and a super low rate for Medicare. 

When I get my summary statement from Medicare and my suppliment plan it bends my mind.  Lets say the hospital charge for a test is $4000.  And a Dr to interpret the test charges $150.   Medicare will only pay a small portion of the costs.  Like $300 for the test and $35 for the Dr.  These are hypotheticals but you get the idea.  I can't imagine the Hospital can even break even on that payment.  Perhaps thats why they charge the insurance companies so much more to recoup. 

Now can you imagine if Bernie gets his way and forces everyone into medicare like payments to providers?  I cnat imagine that the Hospital/DR/provider system we have now can stand.
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Craig Lamson

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #3682 on: February 01, 2020, 11:17:42 am »

It's a sorry situation. One party is incompetent and the other deceptive. As Alan says, it's bad for the country.

This is nothing new.
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RSL

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #3683 on: February 01, 2020, 11:30:40 am »

Anyone who thinks the current situation is unusual doesn't know anything about history.
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Rob C

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #3684 on: February 01, 2020, 12:15:00 pm »

Medical costs are crazy and the payment schemce are just as crazy.  One rate fro insurance companies, one - higher - rate for cash payments and a super low rate for Medicare. 

When I get my summary statement from Medicare and my suppliment plan it bends my mind.  Lets say the hospital charge for a test is $4000.  And a Dr to interpret the test charges $150.   Medicare will only pay a small portion of the costs.  Like $300 for the test and $35 for the Dr.  These are hypotheticals but you get the idea.  I can't imagine the Hospital can even break even on that payment.  Perhaps thats why they charge the insurance companies so much more to recoup. 

Now can you imagine if Bernie gets his way and forces everyone into medicare like payments to providers?  I cnat imagine that the Hospital/DR/provider system we have now can stand.


What it  might do, is stop the nation being screwed by the medical profession. They have nowhere to go: that's the catch when you are already the best paid of your kind in the world; the only other way is downwards to something reasonable. No other western country will (or could) offer them anything near what they make in the US.

Could be the best thing in the world for you.

Craig Lamson

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #3685 on: February 01, 2020, 12:24:06 pm »


What it  might do, is stop the nation being screwed by the medical profession. They have nowhere to go: that's the catch when you are already the best paid of your kind in the world; the only other way is downwards to something reasonable. No other western country will (or could) offer them anything near what they make in the US.

Could be the best thing in the world for you.

Or the worst. 
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Rob C

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #3686 on: February 01, 2020, 12:36:40 pm »

Or the worst.


Why? Unless they have already bought the bank, they still need to work; you should not forget that many other jobs are also essential, which should not be an automatic passport to milking everyone.

Chris Kern

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #3687 on: February 01, 2020, 12:39:11 pm »

I suspect retiring Tennessee Senator Lamar Alexander spoke for many and perhaps most of his fellow Republicans in the chamber when he said that while the impeachment managers from the House of Representatives proved that President Trump improperly manipulated government policy regarding Ukraine for his own political advantage, his behavior was not sufficiently egregious to meet the high threshold for removal from office—and that, especially with a national election ten months away, the decision about the next president should be left to the voters.

Ironically, Alexander's perspective wasn't that different from that expressed by Nancy Pelosi, the Speaker of the House, until her fellow Democrats forced her hand to proceed with impeachment following the revelations about Trump's attempt to pressure the new Ukrainian president.

While the opinion polls suggest the impeachment has increased the public's concern about Trump's behavior, it probably will be a while before there are enough survey data to indicate whether it has had any significant effect on state-by-state support for his re-election.  However, I think one thing that is clear is that Pelosi and the Republican leader in the Senate, Mitch McConnell—two of the shrewdest strategists to lead their respective chambers in many years—both played the political cards they were dealt very well.

Although Pelosi no doubt hopes the impeachment has weakened Trump and thus will increase the likelihood that the eventual Democratic candidate for president will be elected next November, her primary objective has clearly been to maintain her majority in the House of Representatives.  It was no secret to anyone that absent a seismic change in public opinion, there was no possibility the Senate would vote to remove Trump from office.  However I suspect Pelosi calculated that the very failure to do so would energize Democratic Party activists to make the effort in November to get their less-committed voters to turn out.  When turnout is high, both nationally and in many of the states, the Democrats tend to do well, but they face demographic and structural obstacles to getting out their vote: young people and members of minority groups who historically have not been highly motivated voters, hourly workers who must sacrifice wages to stand in line at the polls, and rules in some states that create bureaucratic obstacles to demonstrating eligibility to vote.

McConnell no doubt hopes to see a Republican continue to occupy the White House (although I suspect he would prefer it to be someone other than Trump), but like Pelosi in the House, his primary objective is to hold onto his majority in the Senate.  For that—and, indeed, for his own re-election in Kentucky—he simply couldn't afford to take any action during the impeachment proceedings that might antagonize what might be called the "Trump wing" of the Republican party, a critical core of enthusiastic voters who themselves typically aren't sufficient to swing an election but whose support is necessary for a Republican to be elected in many states.  McConnell had to deliver for Trump in the Senate trial and he did: by avoiding testimony from potentially embarrassing witnesses and scheduling a final vote as quickly as the Senate rules would allow.  Presumably he can now count on Trump to reciprocate by doing everything he can to help the Republican senators who face difficult re-election campaigns.  While Trump's national approval rating has never gone above 50 percent, his support among voters who identify as Republicans remains very high—and there is currently little reason to think that will change before the November election.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2020, 12:51:00 pm by Chris Kern »
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Craig Lamson

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #3688 on: February 01, 2020, 12:46:39 pm »


Why? Unless they have already bought the bank, they still need to work; you should not forget that many other jobs are also essential, which should not be an automatic passport to milking everyone.

Do you have any idea how much time a Dr spends just getting to the point of being a Dr?  And the  money?  So now they are just  going to be told by the goverment how much they can earn?

Best of luck with that one in America.
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Jeremy Roussak

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #3689 on: February 01, 2020, 12:46:56 pm »

Laughing at a post is a pretty sure sign that you do not understand it and/or have no valid counter-arguments.

Or that it's funny, of course.

Jeremy
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James Clark

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #3690 on: February 01, 2020, 12:50:08 pm »

A great opinion article about Trump and the deep state.

https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2020/01/impeachment_is_a_badge_of_honor_for_donald_trump.html

'So when President Trump's enemies seek to manipulate us into acquiescing and consenting to his removal from office, their strategy is all backwards.  The Left long ago learned to use our virtue against us by appealing to our moral leanings and our sense of shame.  They cry out at us: "Look at this man.  He betrays all of the customs and traditions of the American government.  He lies to us and threatens us and dares to question the absolute truth of the press.  He is uncouth and ill mannered and actively seeks to find our pressure points and pour salt in our wounds.  He is no true Republican.  He is no true conservative.  He countermands everything we've stood for, everything we've worked for, everything we've promised to the rest of the world.  He finds nothing sacred in what we do."  Nothing could make us happier.  The more they protest and accuse him of terrible things, the more we see him as a great and dangerous club with which to pound the Deep State and post-constitutional order into the ground"

This is what happens when meth runs amok in middle America.   Seriously - what a contemptible piece of writing.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2020, 12:54:25 pm by James Clark »
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Craig Lamson

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #3691 on: February 01, 2020, 12:50:22 pm »

I suspect retiring Tennessee Senator Lamar Alexander spoke for many and perhaps most of his fellow Republicans in the chamber when he said that while the impeachment managers from the House of Representatives proved that President Trump improperly manipulated government policy regarding Ukraine for his own political advantage, his behavior was not sufficiently egregious to meet the high threshold for removal from office—and that, especially with a national election ten months away, the decision about the next president should be left to the voters.

Ironically, Alexander's perspective wasn't that different from that expressed by Nancy Pelosi, the Speaker of the House, until her fellow Democrats forced her hand to proceed with impeachment following the revelations about Trump's attempt to pressure the new Ukrainian president.

While the opinion polls suggest the impeachment has increased the public's concern about Trump's behavior, it probably will be a while before there are enough survey data to indicate whether it has had any significant effect on state-by-state support for his re-election.  However, I think one thing that is clear is that Pelosi and the Republican leader in the Senate, Mitch McConnell—two of the shrewdest strategists to lead their respective chambers in many years—both played the political cards they were dealt very well.

Although Pelosi no doubt hopes the impeachment has weakened Trump and thus will increase the likelihood that the eventual Democratic candidate for president will be elected next November, her primary objective has clearly been to maintain her majority in the House of Representatives.  It was no secret to anyone that absent a seismic change in public opinion, there was no possibility the Senate would vote to remove Trump from office.  However I suspect Pelosi calculated that the very failure to do so would energize Democratic Party activists to make the effort in November to get their less-committed voters to turn out.  When turnout is high, both nationally and in many of the states, the Democrats tend to do well, but they face demographic and structural obstacles to getting out their vote: young people and members of minority groups who historically have not been highly motivated voters, hourly workers who must sacrifice wages to stand in line at the polls, and rules in some states that create bureaucratic obstacles to demonstrating eligibility to vote.

McConnell no doubt hopes to see a Republican continue to occupy the White House (although I suspect he would prefer it to be someone other than Trump), but like Pelosi in the House, his primary objective is to hold onto his majority in the Senate.  For that—and, indeed, for his own re-election in Kentucky—he simply couldn't afford to take any action during the impeachment proceedings that might antagonize the what might be called the "Trump wing" of the Republican party, a critical core of enthusiastic voters who themselves typically aren't sufficient to swing an election but whose support is necessary for a Republican to be elected in many states.  McConnell had to deliver for Trump in the Senate trial and he did: by avoiding testimony from potentially embarrassing witnesses and scheduling a final vote as quickly as the Senate rules would allow.  Presumably he can now count on Trump to reciprocate by doing everything he can to help the Republican senators who face difficult re-election campaigns.  While Trump's national approval rating has never gone above 50 percent, his support among voters who identify as Republicans remains very high—and there is currently little reason to think that will change before the November election.

This has been political impeachment and was played that way by both sides.
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Craig Lamson

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #3692 on: February 01, 2020, 12:51:25 pm »

This is what happens when meth runs amok in middle America.   Seriously - what a contemptible piece of writing.

And statements like yours are what is going to get Trump re-elected once again.  Please, keep it up.
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James Clark

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #3693 on: February 01, 2020, 12:58:23 pm »

And statements like yours are what is going to get Trump re-elected once again.  Please, keep it up.

Hey man, I'm just tired of "being PC."  Just "telling how it is."  And that author's rant was straight up deplorable.  I mean, I'm just saying it like Trump would, except with bigger words.  You don't like it? You must not be a real American.
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Craig Lamson

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #3694 on: February 01, 2020, 01:03:23 pm »

Hey man, I'm just tired of "being PC."  Just "telling how it is."  And that author's rant was straight up deplorable.  I mean, I'm just saying it like Trump would, except with bigger words.  You don't like it? You must not be a real American.

By all means tell it like you feel it, and tell it loud.  Nothing like calling people deplorable, I mean it worked so well for Hillary.  Please keep it up!
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James Clark

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #3695 on: February 01, 2020, 01:06:22 pm »

By all means tell it like you feel it, and tell it loud.  Nothing like calling people deplorable, I mean it worked so well for Hillary.  Please keep it up!

A fair point.  Apparently being a jerk only works when Trump does it, then y'all LOVE it.  Weird.  (Seriously, that author is unhinged.)
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faberryman

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #3696 on: February 01, 2020, 01:24:53 pm »

By all means tell it like you feel it, and tell it loud.  Nothing like calling people deplorable, I mean it worked so well for Hillary.  Please keep it up!
Yep, nothing riles up deplorable people more than calling them out. Then they all join together and do something deplorable.
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Craig Lamson

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #3697 on: February 01, 2020, 01:26:05 pm »

A fair point.  Apparently being a jerk only works when Trump does it, then y'all LOVE it.  Weird.  (Seriously, that author is unhinged.)

What are going to do when its Bernie V Trump.  Bernie bots sound even worse.  So will you vote to destroy capitalism or vote for Trump?  :) ;)
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Craig Lamson

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #3698 on: February 01, 2020, 01:27:31 pm »

Yep, nothing riles up deplorable people more than calling them out. Then they all join together and do something deplorable.

Calling folks deplorable is not a winning play. But I suggest you plesse keep it up.
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Rob C

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #3699 on: February 01, 2020, 01:53:15 pm »

Do you have any idea how much time a Dr spends just getting to the point of being a Dr?  And the  money?  So now they are just  going to be told by the goverment how much they can earn?

Best of luck with that one in America.

One of my granddaughters is a doctor; yes I do have some idea of the study, the hard work, the crazy hours and the exploitation (my take) of junior doctors. All that said, the job is a vocation and they all have a pretty shrewd idea of what it is. If not a vocation, like photography, you should not be in it.

It strikes me that telling them what they can earn is a perfectly reasonable concept. After all, every damned gig that I undertook came with its budget. Most people who work for their keep work to a price; why not docs too? If they need more than a reasonably good salary, then form a company and get your percentage of what your employees make; the point is that the service they perform be reasonably priced at a level the average guy can afford, or his insurance company can afford without screwing him into the gutter. Do you know that any travel insurance policy that I ever needed to buy automatically excluded the US? One had to take out a much more expensive policy. That tells me something is a bit fishy across the Atlantic. And it ain't the vanishing cod.
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