Pages: 1 ... 182 183 [184] 185 186 ... 196   Go Down

Author Topic: Impeaching Donald Trump  (Read 340908 times)

Alan Klein

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15850
    • Flicker photos
Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #3660 on: February 01, 2020, 12:35:22 am »

The refusal of the Senate to hear witnesses marks the end of the US as a democracy.

I feel incredibly sorry for all my American friends and also for myself because this is symptomatic of a terrible global slide towards the darkest hours of totalitarianism.

Cheers,
Bernard


Sheesh.  I'm waiting any minute to be taken away to a gulag. 

Slobodan Blagojevic

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 18210
  • When everyone thinks the same, nobody thinks
    • My website
Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #3661 on: February 01, 2020, 01:52:51 am »

The refusal of the Senate to hear witnesses marks the end of the US as a democracy.

I feel incredibly sorry for all my American friends and also for myself because this is symptomatic of a terrible global slide towards the darkest hours of totalitarianism....

 ;D ;D ;D

And just when one smart country escaped the clutches of a real totalitarianism.

thierrylegros396

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1949
Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #3662 on: February 01, 2020, 02:53:05 am »

;D ;D ;D

And just when one smart country escaped the clutches of a real totalitarianism.

The real problem is worldwide money totalitarianism!

Logged

Rob C

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 25166
Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #3663 on: February 01, 2020, 04:37:26 am »

;D ;D ;D

And just when one smart country escaped the clutches of a real totalitarianism.

If you mean Britain, you're mistaken: its heading right into it. I told you already in these pages, I was always a Tory voter when I had the right to vote; I could never vote for them again because they no longer exist: what there is today is a clutch of ogres without even a pretence towards honesty. Maybe you didn't have access or cared enough to watch the so-called Conservative benches during the long debates about Brexit; if you had, you would have seen the naked, undisguised arrogance of the super rich treating the rest like a pile of dog shit. Had you ever wanted to view the supercilious curl of the aristocratic lip, you had it there, every day. Equally, you could view the scheming, weak face of the neo-communist that knows its time has passed and can never return because its motherland has changed into something else and ruined the plot, leaving it no place to call home.

Rob C

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 25166
Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #3664 on: February 01, 2020, 04:45:48 am »

The real problem is worldwide money totalitarianism!

That's bullshit. Money is simply a means to the transfer and trading of value. Reduced to simple terms: if you want to have a cabbage, there is no use in trying to get one by exchanging it for a carrot if the guy with the cabbage you desire already has too many carrots of his own. You require a system of tokens that represents both cabbages and carrots: money.

The problems start to arise when one guy has too many carrots or cabbages, but won't let you have one of your own.

Rob

Craig Lamson

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3264
    • Craig Lamson Photo Homepage
Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #3665 on: February 01, 2020, 09:16:26 am »

The refusal of the Senate to hear witnesses marks the end of the US as a democracy.

I feel incredibly sorry for all my American friends and also for myself because this is symptomatic of a terrible global slide towards the darkest hours of totalitarianism.

Cheers,
Bernard

Uh, last I looked there were 17 ( plus one hidden) witnesses in this trial.  And also last time I looked, The House decided not to pursue Bolton’s testimony.   

Enjoy your memodrama.
Logged
Craig Lamson Photo

Craig Lamson

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3264
    • Craig Lamson Photo Homepage
Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #3666 on: February 01, 2020, 09:36:22 am »

Well, then again...

farm bankruptcies are through the silo roof

Now to be fair, the article claims that, "Nearly one-third of projected U.S. net farm income in 2019 came from government aid and taxpayer-subsidized commodity insurance payments, according to the U.S. Department of Agriculture." And, "The court data indicates those supports did help prevent a more serious economic fallout, said John Newton, chief economist for the American Farm Bureau Federation. Some of the biggest bankruptcy rate increases were seen in regions, such as apple growers in the Pacific Northwest, that did not receive much or any of the latest round of trade aid from the Trump administration."

So credit where credit is due to Trump for using socialism to prop up failing industry.  Of course, that industry probably wouldn't be failing as much had Trump not gutted the farm industry with his stupid trade wars.  But hey, "Trade wars are good, and easy to win."

Also, that one-month increase in life expectancy? Largely a result of better cancer and other treatments, the end result of basic research that takes years to come to fruition. 

Oh yeah - that increase in cancer survivability?  It's offset by an increase in suicides in Trump country.  I wonder why that is?  Oh wait... it's because
.

But there is hope!

I wonder what program we have that could help with that?

Just curious James, how much farming takes place where you live, just wondering if you observe it much personally?  Lots of it around here and I talk to small part time farmers often and spend a lot of time driving in  soy bean and corn country.   The guys I’ve spoken to are quite happy Trump took on China on trade.  And yes they took a short term hit.  But they also suffered because of a very wet spring and many did not even plant some field due to the wet.  Many who did got them in late and the yields  were down.  A double wammy.

Now, on ACA.  Again do you have any experience with the program?  I do.  I’ve been self employed for 20 years and my wife works with me.  We bought our health insurance from the individual marketplace.   Once ACA hit our costs rose, and deductibles went up. Then the company we had used for years stopped providing coverage and we were forced into the ACA marketplace.   Only one company was offering coverage that had our dr in the network.  Prices were crazy high.  And to make matters worse some specialists that were in network would not accept us as patients because of the bad payment practices of our carrier.   And the coverage cost us 25k a year with 6k per person out of pocket.

All in all it was a horrible situation.  We are now on Medicare and somewhat pricey part b supplements and part d coverages.  Better that the lousy ACA plan but let me tell you Medicare is not free.

My point here is that my personal experience with ACA was really bad.  And from what I’m seeing, those with lower incomes my have insurance but can’t really afford to use it due to high out of pocket costs.  From my cheap seats it is a really bad law.  YMMV.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2020, 09:57:00 am by Craig Lamson »
Logged
Craig Lamson Photo

Alan Klein

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15850
    • Flicker photos
Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #3667 on: February 01, 2020, 09:56:48 am »

ACA has become catastrophic care only due to the high deductibles.

Chairman Bill

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3352
    • flickr page
Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #3668 on: February 01, 2020, 10:11:16 am »

Refusing to hear evidence because it might lead to a conclusion you don't want to hear, sounds an awful lot like conspiracy to pervert the course of justice.

I don't care what your politics are, but if truth no longer matters to you, you should be ashamed.

James Clark

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2347
Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #3669 on: February 01, 2020, 10:16:49 am »

Just curious James, how much farming takes place where you live, just wondering if you observe it much personally?  Lots of it around here and I talk to small part time farmers often and spend a lot of time driving in  soy bean and corn country.   The guys I’ve spoken to are quite happy Trump took on China on trade.  And yes they took a short term hit.  But they also suffered because of a very wet spring and many did not even plant some field due to the wet.  Many who did got them in late and the yields  were down.  A double wammy.

Very little direct experience with farming.  My point wasn't so much that Trump wrecked the farmers last year, it was more a commentary on how people want to assign nebulous goo things to the magnificence of Trump, when in fact there are also some negative happenings that can be more directly attributed if one is the sort to attribute presidential actions to such things.   My point about the bailouts stands though. 

Now, on ACA.  Again do you have any experience with the program?  I do.  I’ve been self employed for 20 years and my wife works with me.  We bought our health insurance from the individual marketplace.   Once ACA hit our costs rose, and deductibles went up. Then the company we had used for years stopped providing coverage and we were forced into the ACA marketplace.   Only one company was offering coverage that had our dr in the network.  Prices were crazy high.  And to make matters worse some specialists that were in network would not accept us as patients because of the bad payment practices of our carrier.   And the coverage cost us 25k a year with 6k per person out of pocket.

All in all it was a horrible situation.  We are now on Medicare and somewhat pricey part b supplements and part d coverages.  Better that the lousy ACA plan but let me tell you Medicare is not free.

My point here is that my personal experience with ACA was really bad.  And from what I’m seeing, those with lower incomes my have insurance but can’t really afford to use it due to high out of pocket costs.  From my cheap seats it is a really bad law.  YMMV.

I have a ton of direct experience with the ACA.  I owned and was de facto benefits manager for a 20-person media agency both before and after the ACA, with employees across CA, TX and NY.  Both my wife and I have direct experience with the insurance market as self-employeds AND, in my wife's case, the impact of the pre-existing coverages and lifetime cap provisions.   I can tell you a few things:

1) Yes, costs continued to increase user the ACA.
1a) But more slowly than the did prior to the ACA
1b) And that's even though Republicans keep trying as hard as possible to eliminate funding for, information about, and participation in the program.

2) The idea that the ACA caused people to lose their plans is a red herring.  Prior to the ACA, every year I had to re-asses and rebalance coverage for my employees as coverage plans changed, doctors went in and out of network (a real problem for someone like my wife with chronic illness or ongoing treatment for melanoma), etc.
2a) Insurance companies, doctors etc. are happy to blame "The ACA" whenever they have to make a decision that people don't like.  I've seen it happen, and the explanations have been largely bogus.


Logged

Alan Klein

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15850
    • Flicker photos
Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #3670 on: February 01, 2020, 10:35:59 am »

I think the problem with high medical costs are real.  Passing the cost to the government, which is effectively us, won't solve the problem because the government is broke too with a trillion dollar deficit this year. adding to the already 23+ trillion in debt.   Also, government services are never as good as private.  It's anticipated that our deficit will be a trillion a year for years going forward.  It's unsustainable.  No one wants to talk about cutting services, defense, and the myriad other programs the government underwrites.  At some point the whole thing is going to fall down. We're just kidding ourselves. 

Craig Lamson

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3264
    • Craig Lamson Photo Homepage
Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #3671 on: February 01, 2020, 10:36:16 am »



I have a ton of direct experience with the ACA.  I owned and was de facto benefits manager for a 20-person media agency both before and after the ACA, with employees across CA, TX and NY.  Both my wife and I have direct experience with the insurance market as self-employeds AND, in my wife's case, the impact of the pre-existing coverages and lifetime cap provisions.   I can tell you a few things:

1) Yes, costs continued to increase user the ACA.
1a) But more slowly than the did prior to the ACA
1b) And that's even though Republicans keep trying as hard as possible to eliminate funding for, information about, and participation in the program.

2) The idea that the ACA caused people to lose their plans is a red herring.  Prior to the ACA, every year I had to re-asses and rebalance coverage for my employees as coverage plans changed, doctors went in and out of network (a real problem for someone like my wife with chronic illness or ongoing treatment for melanoma), etc.
2a) Insurance companies, doctors etc. are happy to blame "The ACA" whenever they have to make a decision that people don't like.  I've seen it happen, and the explanations have been largely bogus.

1a) My cost went up more rapidly under ACA.
1b) That works for me because my experience shows the program sucked.
2) Again its not a red herring in my situation and I'm sure its true for others.  I DID lose a plan that I had for many years and the only one I could find to replace it sucked.  I can't be an isolated situation.
2a)  Conjecture on your part James. I'm not saying the health insurance companies are saints.  But lets be honest, they got bribed into the ACA by Obama and his promise of boat loads of payments from the government.  Was ACA a noble idea?  Maybe.  Did it work in practice? Not very well.  How any low income people can muster 6k of out of pocket?
Logged
Craig Lamson Photo

Craig Lamson

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3264
    • Craig Lamson Photo Homepage
Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #3672 on: February 01, 2020, 10:38:51 am »

Refusing to hear evidence because it might lead to a conclusion you don't want to hear, sounds an awful lot like conspiracy to pervert the course of justice.

I don't care what your politics are, but if truth no longer matters to you, you should be ashamed.

What truth got hidden?  Is anyone really uncertain what they think Bolten wants to say?  And do you think it might magically change the minds of 20 Rep Senators?
Logged
Craig Lamson Photo

LesPalenik

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5338
    • advantica blog
Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #3673 on: February 01, 2020, 10:47:57 am »

Refusing to hear evidence because it might lead to a conclusion you don't want to hear, sounds an awful lot like conspiracy to pervert the course of justice.

I don't care what your politics are, but if truth no longer matters to you, you should be ashamed.

Well said. Refusing witnesses with factual and first hand information is a suppression of truth. This sets a dangerous precedent for justice and politics in USA.
Logged

Craig Lamson

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3264
    • Craig Lamson Photo Homepage
Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #3674 on: February 01, 2020, 10:54:04 am »

Well said. Refusing witnesses with factual and first hand information is a suppression of truth. This sets a dangerous precedent for justice and politics in USA.

Yes, the HOUSE shoud be ashamed of themselves for failing to even TRY to get those first hand witnesses like Bolton.    It does indeed set a dangerous precedent.
Logged
Craig Lamson Photo

Alan Klein

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15850
    • Flicker photos
Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #3675 on: February 01, 2020, 10:54:20 am »

What truth got hidden?  Is anyone really uncertain what they think Bolten wants to say?  And do you think it might magically change the minds of 20 Rep Senators?
If the Democrats cared about truth, they would have waited on impeachment and called all the witnesses after subpoenaing them and getting a court ruling that would force them to appear.  But they were too anxious to file the impeachment.  After all, they wanted to do that for three years and were running out of time to smear the President before the upcoming election.  Instead, they impeached him on weak charges and wanted the Republican senators to do their work to destroy the Republican president, the leader of their party.  That's not how politics works and it has nothing to do with the truth.  The Democrats short-circuited the impeachment process and the Republicans short-circuited the trial, both for political reasons.  Now let's move on. 

PeterAit

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4647
    • Peter Aitken Photographs
Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #3676 on: February 01, 2020, 10:55:06 am »

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Best laugh I've had in a while, though most of the postings on this thread are laughable.

Laughing at a post is a pretty sure sign that you do not understand it and/or have no valid counter-arguments.
Logged

Alan Klein

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15850
    • Flicker photos
Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #3677 on: February 01, 2020, 10:58:52 am »

Yes, the HOUSE shoud be ashamed of themselves for failing to even TRY to get those first hand witnesses like Bolton.    It does indeed set a dangerous precedent.
It's set up future impeachments for run-of-the-mill violations of executive power so the opposing party can smear the president.  It takes away from good government making it hyper-political, something we have enough of already.  It's going to hurt the country.

Craig Lamson

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3264
    • Craig Lamson Photo Homepage
Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #3678 on: February 01, 2020, 11:06:39 am »

A great opinion article about Trump and the deep state.

https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2020/01/impeachment_is_a_badge_of_honor_for_donald_trump.html

'So when President Trump's enemies seek to manipulate us into acquiescing and consenting to his removal from office, their strategy is all backwards.  The Left long ago learned to use our virtue against us by appealing to our moral leanings and our sense of shame.  They cry out at us: "Look at this man.  He betrays all of the customs and traditions of the American government.  He lies to us and threatens us and dares to question the absolute truth of the press.  He is uncouth and ill mannered and actively seeks to find our pressure points and pour salt in our wounds.  He is no true Republican.  He is no true conservative.  He countermands everything we've stood for, everything we've worked for, everything we've promised to the rest of the world.  He finds nothing sacred in what we do."  Nothing could make us happier.  The more they protest and accuse him of terrible things, the more we see him as a great and dangerous club with which to pound the Deep State and post-constitutional order into the ground"
« Last Edit: February 01, 2020, 11:17:02 am by Craig Lamson »
Logged
Craig Lamson Photo

RSL

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 16748
    • http://www.russ-lewis.com
Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #3679 on: February 01, 2020, 11:08:20 am »

Laughing at a post is a pretty sure sign that you do not understand it and/or have no valid counter-arguments.

This was your post, Peter: "Any more than Trump had anything to do with the current economic boom."

Anyone who wouldn't laugh at that simply doesn't understand how the world works. As far as counter-arguments are concerned, considering the economic improvements since Trump "stole" the election from Hillary, anyone who says what you said in that quote is the one who doesn't have valid counter-arguments -- doesn't have any arguments at all.  8) 8) :-*
Logged
Russ Lewis  www.russ-lewis.com.
Pages: 1 ... 182 183 [184] 185 186 ... 196   Go Up