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Author Topic: Impeaching Donald Trump  (Read 66646 times)

Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #3300 on: January 26, 2020, 07:28:56 pm »

Drip, drip, drip, drip......................................................  Stuff keeps coming out every day.  We now have a video of President Trump requesting that Ambassador Yovanovitch be removed from office.  Tonight we have the outlines of what John Bolton might say if called to testify.  The NY Times has an article on what is in the draft of the book and it's not painting a pretty picture:  https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/26/us/politics/trump-bolton-book-ukraine.html   What morsels will come out tomorrow?  Where is the President's key lawyer, Mr. Giuliani, when he is really needed?

Of course the truth doesn't matter in this age of bots and hashtags. 
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RSL

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #3301 on: January 26, 2020, 07:48:32 pm »

Right, Alan. A lot of drips are working to unseat this president. Happily it's clear to a majority that they're drips, and crooked drips at that. In the long run those drips are going to help Trump get reelected. I realize that if you're deep into fake news you'll never understand that.
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Craig Lamson

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #3302 on: January 26, 2020, 07:49:41 pm »

Drip, drip, drip, drip......................................................  Stuff keeps coming out every day.  We now have a video of President Trump requesting that Ambassador Yovanovitch be removed from office.  Tonight we have the outlines of what John Bolton might say if called to testify.  The NY Times has an article on what is in the draft of the book and it's not painting a pretty picture:  https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/26/us/politics/trump-bolton-book-ukraine.html   What morsels will come out tomorrow?  Where is the President's key lawyer, Mr. Giuliani, when he is really needed?

Of course the truth doesn't matter in this age of bots and hashtags.

So, what did you actually learn that was new from Bolton's so called outline?   Or the video tape for that matter?

And don't you just LOVE the timing?  Not a pre-planned hit job, no sir!
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Alan Klein

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #3303 on: January 26, 2020, 07:56:07 pm »

The GOP is at it again with this "overturn the election" crapola. More hysterical nincompoopery to stir up the "base." If it were the case that Clinton would become president on Trump's removal, there would be some validity in that claim. But it would be Mike "hallucinator" Pence who would take over. And he received the exact same minority of votes that Trump did.
Pence wasn't elected president.  Trump was.  So it would be overturning the election.  The losing party wants to overturn an American presidential election.  As Pelosi said, she's been working at it for 2 1/2 years. 

Alan Klein

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #3304 on: January 26, 2020, 08:01:35 pm »

The GOP is at it again with this "overturn the election" crapola. More hysterical nincompoopery to stir up the "base." If it were the case that Clinton would become president on Trump's removal, there would be some validity in that claim. But it would be Mike "hallucinator" Pence who would take over. And he received the exact same minority of votes that Trump did.
Pence wasn't elected president.  Trump was.  So it would be overturning the election.  The losing party wants to overturn an American presidential election.  As Pelosi said, she's been working at it for 2 1/2 years. 
I watched a comedy show recently, can't remember which one, that sent out a "reporter" on the street to ask people if they had voted yet on the "impeachment". They didn't show the ones who saw through it all, it is just a comedy show, but they found a fair number who treated the question seriously and even a few who admitted to having voted.

If I were a US voter with no a priori axe to grind, the one thing I would certainly take away from the whole impeachment show is that witnesses were prevented from speaking. People can spin that all they want, I know what I think about it. Whether the average US voter has even noticed is a different matter.

Whatever is going at the level of the media, or social media, or anywhere else, the one thing that the Democrats should be doing at the grass roots level is to get people to register to vote. From what has been widely reported, there has been a widespread systematic effort to dis-enfranchise federal voters in the US and given the ignorance of most people on how the system works, it might be a full-time job for a lot of staffers to educate their supporters about how to vote. From my point of view, this silliness exists only because the US insists on making the right to vote a political matter instead of what it should be, a civic issue dealt with by a public body. (Btw, Alan is going to pipe in now to tell me that the way the US does it is the best way possible just like he did the last time I brought this up. And he will still be wrong.)

I was amused by Pompeo blowing up at a reporter who asked him a question he didn't like. Politics 101: when politicians get angry at journalists, that's a sure sign that the journalist is on to something.

I don't recall what I said the last time.  Please refresh my memory as they say in court.  :)  In any case, what did you mean by the bolded statement? 

Alan Klein

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #3305 on: January 26, 2020, 08:04:24 pm »

Drip, drip, drip, drip......................................................  Stuff keeps coming out every day.  We now have a video of President Trump requesting that Ambassador Yovanovitch be removed from office.  Tonight we have the outlines of what John Bolton might say if called to testify.  The NY Times has an article on what is in the draft of the book and it's not painting a pretty picture:  https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/26/us/politics/trump-bolton-book-ukraine.html   What morsels will come out tomorrow?  Where is the President's key lawyer, Mr. Giuliani, when he is really needed?

Of course the truth doesn't matter in this age of bots and hashtags. 

Alan, you said the same thing about Russian collusion.  Didn't all the drips prove it. Well, no. 

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #3306 on: January 26, 2020, 08:44:44 pm »

... We now have a video of President Trump requesting that Ambassador Yovanovitch be removed from office...

So?

It is a presidential prerogative to appoint and recall ambassadors.

LesPalenik

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #3307 on: January 26, 2020, 09:10:50 pm »

As an outsider, I don't understand why is White House banning Bolton from testifying at Trump's impeachment hearing? Isn't that suppression of critical and factual information related to the impeachment?

Quote
In an August 2019 discussion with Bolton, Trump said he preferred sending no aid to Ukraine until officials there turned over all materials they had about the investigation that involved Biden, as well as Hillary Clinton backers in Ukraine.

The White House has directed Bolton and other administration officials not to cooperate with the impeachment probe, although Bolton has said he would testify on the matter if subpoenaed.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-impeachment-bolton/trump-told-bolton-he-wanted-to-hold-ukraine-aid-pending-help-on-biden-probe-nytimes-idUSKBN1ZP0VD?il=0
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Alan Klein

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #3308 on: January 26, 2020, 09:34:09 pm »

As an outsider, I don't understand why is White House banning Bolton from testifying at Trump's impeachment hearing? Isn't that suppression of critical and factual information related to the impeachment?

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-impeachment-bolton/trump-told-bolton-he-wanted-to-hold-ukraine-aid-pending-help-on-biden-probe-nytimes-idUSKBN1ZP0VD?il=0


The Constitution provides for separation of power between the executive branch (the presidency) and the legislative branch (Congress including the House of Representatives and the Senate).   Each are co-equal branches of the government.   The President's personal advisors are considered part of the executive branch and the president has authority over his people. It's called Executive Privilege.  It's sort of like attorney-client privilege.  The Congress cannot violate that privilege any more than the President can compel a congressman or Senator to do things. 

There are cases where this privilege can be superceded.  However, the House never bothered to follow through with Bolton having rushed to judgement without any real evidence.  Shame on them.  So now, whether Trump agrees or not, it's up to the Republican controlled Senate to call witnesses.  I suspect they won;t as the whole thing is political, Democrats vying for power and Republicans trying to keep it.  I think Republicans see this as a losing situation the longer it goes on. Democrats will just continue to bang Republican heads with a brick during the whole proceedings. The quicker it's over, the quicker everyone could forget about impeachment and go about thrashing each other in other ways.

Peter McLennan

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #3309 on: January 26, 2020, 10:09:04 pm »

So?

It is a presidential prerogative to appoint and recall ambassadors.

Listen to the recording and see if you agree with the way he chose to do that.  His words and his tone of voice.  Presidential?
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Craig Lamson

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #3310 on: January 26, 2020, 10:44:14 pm »

Listen to the recording and see if you agree with the way he chose to do that.  His words and his tone of voice.  Presidential?

What's "Presidential"?
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #3311 on: January 26, 2020, 10:47:49 pm »

Man, this is so confusing. I thought Trump and Bolton were best buds. What happened?

It's a sh*t show.
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LesPalenik

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #3312 on: January 26, 2020, 11:48:31 pm »

Man, this is so confusing. I thought Trump and Bolton were best buds. What happened?

It's a sh*t show.

You don't mean the Schitt's Creek Show? That one earned several awards, but they use professional actors and writers.
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #3313 on: January 27, 2020, 05:05:04 am »

Listen to the recording and see if you agree with the way he chose to do that.  His words and his tone of voice.  Presidential?

https://www.cheatsheet.com/culture/foul-mouthed-presidents-and-how-donald-trump-compares.html/


 Not every president has been [/font][/size]perfectly presidential[/font][/size]. Especially not behind closed doors at the [/font][/size]White House[/font][/size]. Some people (on both sides of the political aisle) consider the use of profanity a sign of a [/font][/size]limited vocabulary[/font][/size]. But many presidents have resorted to vulgar language at some point during their tenure in the Oval Office. Yet some presidents had more of a reputation for their foul mouths than others.[/font][/size][size=78%]
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[/font][/size]
[size=78%]
[/size]
[size=78%]P.S. Apologies for the garbled post, this appears to be a new forum glitch [/size]

Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #3314 on: January 27, 2020, 07:00:50 am »

So?

It is a presidential prerogative to appoint and recall ambassadors.

For personal reasons?
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #3315 on: January 27, 2020, 07:07:11 am »

For personal reasons?

Have you ever heard the term "serving at the pleasure of the President"? Besides, nothing personal about that. If an ambassador does not support President's policy, they should either resign, or be kicked out.

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #3316 on: January 27, 2020, 07:38:06 am »

Black Latina for Trump: "Impeached & re-elected"  :)

LesPalenik

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #3317 on: January 27, 2020, 07:44:09 am »

Slobodan,

I doubt that the formatting problem you are experiencing is caused by the forum software. More likely by the combination of various factors at your end.
What device and browser are you using for writing? Is the Internet speed fast enough or does it slow down as you write?
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #3318 on: January 27, 2020, 07:55:40 am »

Slobodan,

I doubt that the formatting problem you are experiencing is caused by the forum software. More likely by the combination of various factors at your end.
What device and browser are you using for writing? Is the Internet speed fast enough or does it slow down as you write?


Les,


It is possible that something is wrong on my end, but not sure what that could be. I've been posting on this site for, gasp, 15 years the same way. It's been two months since I moved to Europe, and have been posting here without problems until a day or two ago. My Internet speed is 150Mbps, that is, 15x faster here in Belgrade than what I had in Miami.


I am using the latest iMac, both in terms of software and hardware. The same things happen if I write a post on my iPad (a bit old, but with the latest iOS) or iPhone (the latest everything).


Most issues arise when copying and pasting text to quote. but even without that, you can see in this very post that extra space between paragraphs has been inserted, but not by me.


I just posted additional examples in the About This Site thread, so I suggest we move any further discussion there, and leave the poor Trump alone: https://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=133681.0

Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #3319 on: January 27, 2020, 07:58:33 am »

Have you ever heard the term "serving at the pleasure of the President"? Besides, nothing personal about that. If an ambassador does not support President's policy, they should either resign, or be kicked out.

So you prefer a corrupt President over a valuable and respected diplomat, just because he can fire people at will, or start a war?

Trump wanted aid to Ukraine frozen until it helped on probes of political rivals: New York Times
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-impeachment/trump-wanted-aid-to-ukraine-frozen-until-it-helped-on-probes-of-political-rivals-new-york-times-idUSKBN1ZP0K6
Quote
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. President Donald Trump told a then-top aide in August he wanted to freeze security aid to Ukraine until officials there helped with investigations into Democrats, including former Vice President Joe Biden, the New York Times reported on Sunday.

Bolton was correct in not wanting to participate in that drug deal, so he resigned. The ambassador to Ukraine probably had other urgent reasons (like defending American interests against a local Russian invasion) rather than her personal job security, to stay on her post.

Others show less moral backbone and a sense of duty.

And we've e.g. not even started exposing Mike Pompeo's role in all this ...
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