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Author Topic: Impeaching Donald Trump  (Read 118802 times)

PeterAit

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2900 on: January 09, 2020, 10:09:41 am »

From the UK Independent. I'd give you the link but if you don't subscribe you have to click thru a lot of crap.

"Mr Trump, they [a group of psychiatrists]said, is "psychologically and mentally both dangerous and incapacitated" and has a presentation that is "consistent with a person who, when his falsely inflated self-image is questioned, or when his emotional need for adulation is thwarted, lashes out in an attempt to restore his sense of potency and command over others".

The group noted that while senior military leaders must pass yearly psychological evaluations, their commander-in-chief is exempt from such a requirement despite being "the person in most need and who is a maximum danger", and added that current tensions in the Middle East make this a "critical time", at which Americans "cannot wait any longer to deal with the dangerous situation caused by a mentally compromised person acting in erratic, reckless, impulsive, and destructive ways"."
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LesPalenik

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2901 on: January 09, 2020, 10:13:36 am »

From the UK Independent. I'd give you the link but if you don't subscribe you have to click thru a lot of crap.

"Mr Trump, they [a group of psychiatrists]said, is "psychologically and mentally both dangerous and incapacitated" and has a presentation that is "consistent with a person who, when his falsely inflated self-image is questioned, or when his emotional need for adulation is thwarted, lashes out in an attempt to restore his sense of potency and command over others".

The group noted that while senior military leaders must pass yearly psychological evaluations, their commander-in-chief is exempt from such a requirement despite being "the person in most need and who is a maximum danger", and added that current tensions in the Middle East make this a "critical time", at which Americans "cannot wait any longer to deal with the dangerous situation caused by a mentally compromised person acting in erratic, reckless, impulsive, and destructive ways"."

Accurate description, and very alarming.
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JoeKitchen

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2902 on: January 09, 2020, 10:40:09 am »

From the UK Independent. I'd give you the link but if you don't subscribe you have to click thru a lot of crap.

"Mr Trump, they [a group of psychiatrists]said, is "psychologically and mentally both dangerous and incapacitated" and has a presentation that is "consistent with a person who, when his falsely inflated self-image is questioned, or when his emotional need for adulation is thwarted, lashes out in an attempt to restore his sense of potency and command over others".

The group noted that while senior military leaders must pass yearly psychological evaluations, their commander-in-chief is exempt from such a requirement despite being "the person in most need and who is a maximum danger", and added that current tensions in the Middle East make this a "critical time", at which Americans "cannot wait any longer to deal with the dangerous situation caused by a mentally compromised person acting in erratic, reckless, impulsive, and destructive ways"."

Yes, alarming indeed. 

Alarming that psychiatrists who should know better are giving a diagnosis without an examination.  Quite alarming for the competence of psychological professionals, especially considering the AMA actually advertises against giving a diagnosis without an examination. 

Insofar as Trump's so called "erratic" behavior, at least he has not gotten us into a war yet, unlike Obama.  Not to mention, I do believe that Obama's morning routine was to wake up, get a cup of coffee and drone an innocent civilian. 
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PeterAit

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2903 on: January 09, 2020, 10:56:39 am »

Yes, alarming indeed. 

Alarming that psychiatrists who should know better are giving a diagnosis without an examination.  Quite alarming for the competence of psychological professionals, especially considering the AMA actually advertises against giving a diagnosis without an examination. 


These psychiatrists are ASKING for an examination. Good luck with that!
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RSL

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2904 on: January 09, 2020, 11:02:04 am »

No, Peter. All they're doing is further discrediting a profession that used to make some kind of sense. These aren't psychiatrists. They're politicians pushing a cause.
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LesPalenik

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2905 on: January 09, 2020, 11:19:05 am »

No, Peter. All they're doing is further discrediting a profession that used to make some kind of sense. These aren't psychiatrists. They're politicians pushing a cause.

You don't need psychiatrists to see that Trump's behaviour and statements are erratic. On any one day.
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JoeKitchen

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2906 on: January 09, 2020, 11:28:44 am »

You don't need psychiatrists to see that Trump's behaviour and statements are erratic. On any one day.

Come on now Les, Trump has been incredibly restraint in his actions with Iran.  Iran took 6 oil tankers, has been spreading terrorism in the ME that has taken American casualties, shot down one of our drones, etc, and Trump did nothing.  It was not until Iran killed an American and attacked our embassy (within two days of each other) that Trump took action. 

For you to all ignore this and act as if the world started turning only after Trump issued the drone attack is disingenuous and ideologic. 

And now, things appear to be going well.  Iran retaliation was largely a nothing burger; Iran even warned us of the attack.  Our deterrents have been re-established in the ME, and, unlike with Obama, we still are not in a troops on the ground new war. 

On an additional note, it really amazes that, as Ben Haddad (who is not a Trump fan put it) put it, "Iím always surprised the same analysts describe Trump as a calculating selfish cynic and as an irrational crazed madman. You have to choose." 
« Last Edit: January 09, 2020, 11:33:50 am by JoeKitchen »
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LesPalenik

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2907 on: January 09, 2020, 11:36:08 am »

Well, listening to Trump from outside is confusing. Maybe his goal is to be perceived to be unpredictable, but in long-term that doesn't help.

And now even Pence is emulating Trumps methods.
Yesterday, he announced that Iran wasn't really trying to inflict a serious damage to American bases in Irak, and today he states the Iran was aiming to kill Americans.
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PeterAit

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2908 on: January 09, 2020, 11:36:10 am »

No, Peter. All they're doing is further discrediting a profession that used to make some kind of sense. These aren't psychiatrists. They're politicians pushing a cause.

Don't be ridiculous. These are highly educated people with an MD degree, board certification, and HOW can you call them politicians? Asinine. I bet if this same group of psychiatrists had pronounced Trump stable and fit for his job you would have nothing but praise for them.

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JoeKitchen

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2909 on: January 09, 2020, 11:38:06 am »

Don't be ridiculous. These are highly educated people with an MD degree, board certification, and HOW can you call them politicians? Asinine. I bet if this same group of psychiatrists had pronounced Trump stable and fit for his job you would have nothing but praise for them.

No Peter, you are being ridiculous.  As board certified doctors, then they should all know not to make a diagnosis without an examination, which every credible medical association insists on.  This is nothing but politics. 
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JoeKitchen

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2910 on: January 09, 2020, 11:43:58 am »

Well, listening to Trump from outside is confusing. Maybe his goal is to be perceived to be unpredictable, but in long-term that doesn't help.

And now even Pence is emulating Trumps methods.
Yesterday, he announced that Iran wasn't really trying to inflict a serious damage to American bases in Irak, and today he states the Iran was aiming to kill Americans.

It is to give Iran a way out.  If we started, on an official level, to publicize that Iran warned us (as was reported on in the British press) that would make Iran look bad to the Iranians.  The Iranians would need to continue to attack us to further save face. 

But by insisting that it was our warning systems that saved us (not the Iranians warning us) and that Iran really was trying to kill Americans, it allows Iran to use this attack to show their people they attempted to avenged the death of Soleimani. 
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LesPalenik

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2911 on: January 09, 2020, 11:47:29 am »

It is to give Iran a way out.  If we started, on an official level, to publicize that Iran warned us (as was reported on in the British press) that would make Iran look bad to the Iranians.  The Iranians would need to continue to attack us to further save face. 

But by insisting that it was our warning systems that saved us (not the Iranians warning us) and that Iran really was trying to kill Americans, it allows Iran to use this attack to show their people they attempted to avenged the death of Soleimani.

in other words, a double-speak?
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RSL

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2912 on: January 09, 2020, 11:47:39 am »

These are highly educated people with an MD degree. . .

No, Peter, they're not highly educated. They may be highly trained (like a dog is trained) but education is something quite different. I've found that MDs generally are some of the least educated people around. Their training took so much of their time that they never had the opportunity to become educated. Some of them educate themselves after they're out of "training," but many do not.
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JoeKitchen

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2913 on: January 09, 2020, 11:53:13 am »

in other words, a double-speak?

Not any worse than "if you like your plan, you can keep it." 

But seriously Les, would you rather us go around talking about how Iran really was not trying to kill any Americans and that they warned us beforehand, forcing the Iranians to do more strikes?  I guess maybe if they did and that got us into WWIII, you could go around saying "I told you so." 

It is a small price to pay. 
« Last Edit: January 09, 2020, 11:57:22 am by JoeKitchen »
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JoeKitchen

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2914 on: January 09, 2020, 12:21:12 pm »

No, Peter, they're not highly educated. They may be highly trained (like a dog is trained) but education is something quite different. I've found that MDs generally are some of the least educated people around. Their training took so much of their time that they never had the opportunity to become educated. Some of them educate themselves after they're out of "training," but many do not.

Reminds me of Neil DeGrasse Tyson talking about how he teaches a lot of pre-med courses, and that he can confirm there are a lot of stupid doctors walking around out there. 

Neil deGrasse Tyson: Doctors
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PeterAit

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2915 on: January 09, 2020, 12:33:20 pm »

No Peter, you are being ridiculous.  As board certified doctors, then they should all know not to make a diagnosis without an examination, which every credible medical association insists on.  This is nothing but politics.

To diagnose you or me without an examination, that would be wrong. But Trump exposes his self every day with his tweets and public pronouncements. These shrinks know what he is responding to and know his responses. That's pretty much an examination. And, do you REALLY think Trump is stable? I certainly hope not.
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JoeKitchen

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2916 on: January 09, 2020, 12:44:14 pm »

To diagnose you or me without an examination, that would be wrong. But Trump exposes his self every day with his tweets and public pronouncements. These shrinks know what he is responding to and know his responses. That's pretty much an examination. And, do you REALLY think Trump is stable? I certainly hope not.

Here is what the American Psychiatric Association, in January of 2018, said about your insistence that it is okay to diagnose Trump without an examination. 

"Today, the American Psychiatric Association (APA) reiterates its continued and unwavering commitment to the ethical principle known as "The Goldwater Rule." We at the APA call for an end to psychiatrists providing professional opinions in the media about public figures whom they have not examined, whether it be on cable news appearances, books, or in social media. Armchair psychiatry or the use of psychiatry as a political tool is the misuse of psychiatry and is unacceptable and unethical."

To read the full statement, APA Calls for End to 'Armchair' Psychiatry

If you know better and think that we should trust your oppinion over the APA, I think it is only reasonable to ask that you please state your credentials for the record.   
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RSL

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2917 on: January 09, 2020, 12:45:07 pm »

And, do you REALLY think Trump is stable?

Compared to whom, Peter? You?
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JoeKitchen

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2918 on: January 09, 2020, 01:39:13 pm »

Getting back to Iran, things just got a whole lot more serious, with Europe that is. 

IRANIAN MISSILE SYSTEM SHOT DOWN UKRAINE FLIGHT, PROBABLY BY MISTAKE, SOURCES SAY

Suddenly makes sense why Iran refused to turn over the black box. 
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kers

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #2919 on: January 09, 2020, 01:50:19 pm »

Come on now Les, Trump has been incredibly restraint in his actions with Iran.  Iran took 6 oil tankers, has been spreading terrorism in the ME that has taken American casualties, shot down one of our drones, etc, and Trump did nothing.  It was not until Iran killed an American and attacked our embassy (within two days of each other) that Trump took action. 

For you to all ignore this and act as if the world started turning only after Trump issued the drone attack is disingenuous and ideologic. 

And now, things appear to be going well.  Iran retaliation was largely a nothing burger; Iran even warned us of the attack.  Our deterrents have been re-established in the ME, and, unlike with Obama, we still are not in a troops on the ground new war. 

On an additional note, it really amazes that, as Ben Haddad (who is not a Trump fan put it) put it, "I’m always surprised the same analysts describe Trump as a calculating selfish cynic and as an irrational crazed madman. You have to choose."

In the cases you mention it is not proven that Iran was the actor.
What you call terrorism is the same as the US presence there- influence. In fact Soleimani forces were important for halting IS in Iraq.
The drone was downed because it was in Iran's territory, so they had a right to do that.
Iran was so wise not to kill Americans in the revenge attack after Soleimani's killing, to avoid a war. Unlike Trumps behaviour that almost started one.
The US is the aggressor - That started with blowing up the Iran-deal and the imposing of very strict  economic sanctions.
Since then US provocative military action have tried to trigger a reaction from Iran to find an excuse for further military interventions...
Before all that Iran was going the right way, its nuclear program was controlled and there was room for the moderate political forces in the country. Those voices have now been silenced.
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